(Topic ID: 270993)

Heavy Metal Discussion

By snowy_owl

3 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 105 posts
  • 40 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by DS_Nadine
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “What are your impressions of Heavy Metal”

    • Looks awful, never gonna play it. 28 votes
      19%
    • Looks great, I really wanna buy one! 9 votes
      6%
    • Eh, looks ok, but not enough to make me want to buy it. I could care less. 56 votes
      37%
    • Looks cool, but too overpriced. 58 votes
      38%

    (151 votes)

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    There are 105 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
    #51 3 years ago
    Quoted from andre060:

    Beatles has 4 flippers, 11 drops, a spinner and multiple magnets. If they can do that they can do Eldorado.

    At Beatles pricing.

    Beatles would have also been a great layout. Anything a bit retro.

    Have to remember this is going through a 3rd party so there’s another margin to put on. Original BOM has to be cheap enough for everyone to get their piece of the pie, hence a recycled Home Edition game.

    But I’m not a buyer anyway - as long as they’re happy.

    #52 3 years ago

    That's too bad. This movie holds a special place in my pants. First cartoon bush I ever saw. PF artwork is uninspiring, the shots are weak and a standard DMD? For $8300? Pfffffh hard pass. Bet they don't even include Crazy a suitable case for treatment by Nazareth which is arguably the most bad ass song on that album.

    #53 3 years ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    At Beatles pricing.
    Beatles would have also been a great layout. Anything a bit retro.
    Have to remember this is going through a 3rd party so there’s another margin to put on. Original BOM has to be cheap enough for everyone to get their piece of the pie, hence a recycled Home Edition game.
    But I’m not a buyer anyway - as long as they’re happy.

    This is true, it's not supposed to be aimed really at the pinball scene, but more at the heavy metal fans and collectors. And if someone is both, hey, that's great. Probably part of stern's psychology is "if most of the buyers for this machine aren't in the pinball scene, they won't really know what a reasonable price for a machine like that is. Therefore...let's charge 8.3k for these things!"

    #54 3 years ago
    Quoted from CLEllison:

    This movie holds a special place in my pants. First cartoon bush I ever saw.

    Stern should put this quote on the flyer.

    #55 3 years ago
    Quoted from CLEllison:

    Crazy a suitable case for treatment by Nazareth

    Great, now that's stuck in my head. Thanks.

    #56 3 years ago
    Quoted from snowy_owl:

    Interesting. I've never understood why people liked the primus and woah nellie bjm layout that much. It's like an EM, which is cool, but...it just wasn't very fun, imo. Didn't really like the themes, either. As far as limited numbers, I agree with you. All I was saying is that stern has used the fact of limited production before to raise the price higher than the game is really worth.

    Yeah, I get that Whoa Nellie/Primus/Pabst has a throwback EM layout/vibe. But if WNBJM had been an actual EM it would't even make the EM Top 100. I can think of literally dozens of actual EMs off the top of my head that have better layouts and rules than WNBJM. There's like one, maybe two if I'm being generous, actual shots in the game, and the rules stink. And it's crazy because Nordman and Freres are both excellent designers too. So I just don't know why they couldn't have made a more fun layout and ruleset for their EM throwback.

    #57 3 years ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    Yeah, I get that Whoa Nellie/Primus/Pabst has a throwback EM layout/vibe. But if WNBJM had been an actual EM it would't even make the EM Top 100. I can think of literally dozens of actual EMs off the top of my head that have better layouts and rules than WNBJM. There's like one, maybe two if I'm being generous, actual shots in the game, and the rules stink. And it's crazy because Nordman and Freres are both excellent designers too. So I just don't know why they couldn't have made a more fun layout and ruleset for their EM throwback.

    I think they tried to make it simple, like many EMs. What they actually ended up doing was a boring and stupid attempt at something new. You would think they'd have learned their lesson that the layout and rules on WNBJM sucked, yet they still went on to make pabst can crusher and primus with those unpopular rules and layout. Kinda stupid on stern's part.

    #58 3 years ago
    Quoted from DakotaMike:

    Yeah, I get that Whoa Nellie/Primus/Pabst has a throwback EM layout/vibe. But if WNBJM had been an actual EM it would't even make the EM Top 100. I can think of literally dozens of actual EMs off the top of my head that have better layouts and rules than WNBJM. There's like one, maybe two if I'm being generous, actual shots in the game, and the rules stink. And it's crazy because Nordman and Freres are both excellent designers too. So I just don't know why they couldn't have made a more fun layout and ruleset for their EM throwback.

    It really is odd that they picked such a boring layout. They could have done anything. Pretty odd, mind boggling project all the way around (terrible theme, bad game) but at least they got a good contract foundation out of it.

    #59 3 years ago
    Quoted from snowy_owl:

    I think they tried to make it simple, like many EMs. What they actually ended up doing was a boring and stupid attempt at something new. You would think they'd have learned their lesson that the layout and rules on WNBJM sucked, yet they still went on to make pabst can crusher and primus with those unpopular rules and layout. Kinda stupid on stern's part.

    I’m pretty sure stern sold all those games so not sure how stupid it was. Stupid would have been investing more time and money in a contract project that someone else is selling - the added costs probably would have killed those projects all together.

    #60 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I’m pretty sure stern sold all those games so not sure how stupid it was. Stupid would have been investing more time and money in a contract project that someone else is selling - the added costs probably would have killed those projects all together.

    Ok, whatever. Maybe they did sell all of them. I don't research this stuff The point is, when you've got a decent to awful layout, and you keep making rethemes of it, chances are that most people are gonna lose interest. Unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure that those games were limited runs, so they didn't have as much to sell. But even there, most people won't buy crappy games unless they're a big fan of the title. But the small percentage that either just needs to have every new stern game, or are a big fan of the theme (even though the game sucks) will buy the limited run of 100-200 games. But you're right, if they sold all of them I guess stupid isn't the right word. It's just kind of aggravating how many rethemes of so-so to awful layouts stern does. Anyway, I'm ranting. Sorry.

    #61 3 years ago
    Quoted from snowy_owl:

    Kinda stupid on stern's part.

    Re-skinning already designed, low-BOM games with new art and selling for full-featured game price?

    No, Stern is very smart

    Stern is a "lifestyle" company. They're fine with selling boxes of lights to people who like to decorate their houses with them. But they also realize they have to keep pinball compelling to continually attract new players, hence the hiring of KME and Raymond Davidson. I'll stick to games like JP and leave the Can Crushers and Heavy Metals for others to buy.

    #62 3 years ago
    Quoted from snowy_owl:

    But the small percentage that either just needs to have every new stern game, or are a big fan of the theme (even though the game sucks) will buy the limited run of 100-200 games.

    Bingo!

    Now you understand why the "retheme" concept makes perfect sense on these contract games, and why investing even $1 in tweaking the layouts would not. I guess it sucks for your average Pinsider who wants new and interesting games every single time, but the good news is Stern puts out several of those a year also for the wider operator and home buyer market.

    #63 3 years ago

    What about sterns vaults of ac/dc and iron man? And star trek? Did those sell? Just curious. Sorry, kinda off topic

    #64 3 years ago
    Quoted from snowy_owl:

    What about sterns vaults of ac/dc and iron man? And star trek? Did those sell? Just curious. Sorry, kinda off topic

    Seems like they sold pretty well but nobody here knows for sure. Demand for acdc and iron man was through the roof so I bet they did very well.

    #65 3 years ago

    I'll probably get a lot of hate for asking this, but what's so great about those games? I mean, I don't hate them or anything, but I don't get the hype...

    #66 3 years ago

    Both are solid titles... "great" is in the eye of the beholder. Stern saw demand for those titles so they made more.. that is all. There is demand for other titles such as Tron... perhaps it is more difficult or not as profitable for Stern to re-run these, so they do not get made.

    All about the benjamins.

    #67 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    It really is odd that they picked such a boring layout. They could have done anything. Pretty odd, mind boggling project all the way around (terrible theme, bad game) but at least they got a good contract foundation out of it.

    Certainly i'm in the minority, but I really dig the layout under the Primus theme. The other two themes do nothing for me, so the interest in the layout is lacking the support of an attractive theme. I was playing it at @Coindork's house and it had that "one more game" aspect to it. I love the challenge of the upper right shot, trying to get the ball back to the upper lanes. They put some focus into ball control and adapting to the rubber post placement alongside the flippers. Sure, it's not the most elaborate layout, but I think it makes for a good pin to get high or drink with friends because the artwork and music is such a trip. I was never a huge Primus fan, but I've always dug their music and I think it's one of the better music-themed pins, actually. It's a somewhat oddball machine and I like that.

    #68 3 years ago
    Quoted from sunnRAT:

    I think it's one of the better music-themed pins, actually.

    Really? What about metallica? Or kiss? Those are good games, imo.

    #69 3 years ago
    Quoted from snowy_owl:

    Really? What about metallica? Or kiss? Those are good games, imo.

    I like Metallica. Fast layout. Not a fan of the music like I was in jr. high school, but it's still a great pin and the music goes well with it. I was never much of a KISS fan, but I dig that layout as well. I can't really explain it, but there's something about that EM layout and the Primus music that just clicks with me. I'm sure the smoke 'n booze is a factor as well!

    #70 3 years ago
    Quoted from sunnRAT:

    I like Metallica. Fast layout. Not a fan of the music like I was in jr. high school, but it's still a great pin and the music goes well with it. I was never much of a KISS fan, but I dig that layout as well. I can't really explain it, but there's something about that EM layout and the Primus music that just clicks with me. I'm sure the smoke 'n booze is a factor as well!

    ok, but still, i feel like the primus layout and rules were bad, even for an EM. The impression I'm kinda getting from you is you like the theme, and like the layout because the theme for you covers up the badness of it...which is fine. I'm not trashing you for your opinion or anything, we're just discussing it.

    #71 3 years ago
    Quoted from koops:

    make sure your contract is signed between now and dec 31 to get some of that sweet govt cash.

    On it mate, 45k government hand out and i already own my land outright. Slab down in November so i am told. Just need a pinball party for next year sometime. Also for 24 panels of solar only 3.5k now with the rebate.

    #72 3 years ago

    I think cary states it well...

    #73 3 years ago

    No pinball youtube reactionaries state anything well.

    None of them have anything interesting to say.

    #74 3 years ago
    Quoted from snowy_owl:

    ok, but still, i feel like the primus layout and rules were bad, even for an EM. The impression I'm kinda getting from you is you like the theme, and like the layout because the theme for you covers up the badness of it...which is fine. I'm not trashing you for your opinion or anything, we're just discussing it.

    Yeah, that makes sense. I know to most, it feels like nothing is going on, but the theme and sounds and music really enhance it. I've really been digging EMs lately, so I like the throwback style it has, but it's like, on acid or something.

    Now, if it's a theme I DON'T entirely connect with, but the layout is killer, then I still really dig the pin. (Fishtales and Deadpool are good examples.)

    Gameplay/layout always comes first for me, but this is one of those rare times where the theme really does it for me and enhances the layout to where I'm playing it over and over and I was never a huge Primus fan!

    #75 3 years ago
    Quoted from sunnRAT:

    Yeah, that makes sense. I know to most, it feels like nothing is going on, but the theme and sounds and music really enhance it. I've really been digging EMs lately, so I like the throwback style it has, but it's like, on acid or something.
    Now, if it's a theme I DON'T entirely connect with, but the layout is killer, then I still really dig the pin. (Fishtales and Deadpool are good examples.)
    Gameplay/layout always comes first for me, but this is one of those rare times where the theme really does it for me and enhances the layout to where I'm playing it over and over and I was never a huge Primus fan!

    Yes I agree with most of this, I almost always hold layout and rules over theme, but I do occasonally have games that I really just like for the theme. For instance, stern's spiderman for me would not be nearly as fun if it had a different theme. Not to say, of course, that the game is bad and the theme is the only reason I like it, but if it was something different I honestly would not like as much as I do.

    #76 3 years ago

    As usual, there is no support from Stern. No manuals, no game code, no page even on their website for this machine. Just a news release with a link to go to a different company for information about it.

    And speaking of Whoa Nellie, I sent Stern two emails almost a year ago pointing out the many errors and omissions in the Whoa Nellie manual and was promptly ignored. They still haven't made any corrections to the manual which is dated 4-22-2015. I have a thread here listing all the errors/omissions.

    #77 3 years ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    and was promptly ignored

    At least they were quick about it!

    #78 3 years ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    As usual, there is no support from Stern. No manuals, no game code, no page even on their website for this machine. Just a news release with a link to go to a different company for information about it.
    And speaking of Whoa Nellie, I sent Stern two emails almost a year ago pointing out the many errors and omissions in the Whoa Nellie manual and was promptly ignored. They still haven't made any corrections to the manual which is dated 4-22-2015. I have a thread here listing all the errors/omissions.

    It's definitely not above stern to leave things unfinished. If you remember, WOF's code was never finished. Even with some of the games who's code is supposedly "finished" it isn't polished and the game is far from perfect. Stern, at a certain point, just gives up, I think. If something takes too long or isn't working out, they either say, "we'll do it when we have nothing better to do" or, "whatever. It's good enough".

    #79 3 years ago
    Quoted from snowy_owl:

    Stern, at a certain point, just gives up, I think. .

    They have your money already, no further effort required.

    #80 3 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    They have your money already, no further effort required.

    Yes, exactly. Well said.

    #81 3 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    They have your money already, no further effort required.

    And besides it's a very limited run game that allready was 4 years out of production at the time of the mail, so...

    #82 3 years ago

    Any word of a reveal stream yet?

    #83 3 years ago

    Love Heavy Metal but looks empty with not much in it,,bummer

    #84 3 years ago

    I want this just slightly more than I want Thunderbirds.

    #85 3 years ago

    I want a playfield and a cabinet. I'll roll my own rules and add an upper deck to the ramps.

    #86 3 years ago

    Completely lazy and uninspired, with an asking price that is downright insulting to anyone with just a cursory knowledge of what else is available for the same price, not to mention the theme deserves MUCH better than this and could have been truly "epic" had Stern bothered to put in the same effort they did with Met, JP, IMdn, etc. Also, the coil stops probably suck. Hell, even the $4k pressboard SW version of this game at least offers a color display (of sorts).

    BUT, I still hold out some hope that Stern will soon be forced to up their game. I really can't imagine how any thinking person could possibly drop $8k for HM after seeing what other companies offer for $6k (CGC "Classic" editions, Hot Wheels come immediately to mind), and at some point this will surely (hopefully?) put some pressure on Stern to at least get back to the level of quality and features they routinely offered just a few years ago (REAL features, like cool playfield stuff, not just silly mods and trim packages that require no significant engineering and do nothing for the gameplay). I don't think any of us are asking for the "moon" here, I know I'd be happy to just see them return to offering the level of "value" and quality they once did.

    #87 3 years ago

    This a contract game for Stern. Unfortunately it's not their game. Think Supreme as a recent example. A company paid them to make the game and probably only 100 are going to sold based on that ridiculous price tag. Low volume games cost alot to make since you miss the volume discounts and the third party will want to make profit. They will probably make all the games in a week and there will never be another mention about it again (aside from the other companys website). How much do you hear about Supreme or PBR or other contract games?

    I wish this theme was a cornerstone title based on the Heavy MEtal movie from 1981 with color assets and that killer soundtrack, can you imagine the possibilities? Alas another dream theme down in flames. Still hope to play it someday, but I would never own it in this iteration for any price. Guess a home brew is the only way I'll ever see my vision of Heavy Metal. Oh well, next!

    Quoted from Thermionic:

    Completely lazy and uninspired, with an asking price that is downright insulting to anyone with just a cursory knowledge of what else is available for the same price, not to mention the theme deserves MUCH better than this and could have been truly "epic" had Stern bothered to put in the same effort they did with Met, JP, IMdn, etc. Also, the coil stops probably suck. Hell, even the $4k pressboard SW version of this game at least offers a color display (of sorts).
    BUT, I still hold out some hope that Stern will soon be forced to up their game. I really can't imagine how any thinking person could possibly drop $8k for HM after seeing what other companies offer for $6k (CGC "Classic" editions, Hot Wheels come immediately to mind), and at some point this will surely (hopefully?) put some pressure on Stern to at least get back to the level of quality and features they routinely offered just a few years ago (REAL features, like cool playfield stuff, not just silly mods and trim packages that require no significant engineering and do nothing for the gameplay). I don't think any of us are asking for the "moon" here, I know I'd be happy to just see them return to offering the level of "value" and quality they once did.

    #88 3 years ago
    Quoted from luvthatapex2:

    Low volume games cost alot to make since you miss the volume discounts and the third party will want to make profit.

    Is that still so in this case? Aside from the art there is a lot of off the shelf hardware being used. Its Star Wars Home with an art change and even cheaper score display.

    #89 3 years ago

    No sweat you’ll be able to pick one up for 4K in no time at all

    #90 3 years ago

    Yep, how much was supreme?

    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Is that still so in this case? Aside from the art there is a lot of off the shelf hardware being used. Its Star Wars Home with an art change and even cheaper score display.

    #91 3 years ago
    Quoted from luvthatapex2:

    Yep, how much was supreme?

    I've seen supreme going for $50,000. No joke. It's stupid.

    #92 3 years ago
    Quoted from snowy_owl:

    I've seen supreme going for $50,000. No joke. It's stupid.

    Everything I've seen about "Supreme" strikes me as excessively stupid...

    #93 3 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Is that still so in this case? Aside from the art there is a lot of off the shelf hardware being used. Its Star Wars Home with an art change and even cheaper score display.

    I'd say so. Let's say Stern is charging the contracting company ~5K for each game. That company wants to profit off the sale of these, so they came up with the MSRP of 8K. Even though they went to a cheaper display, the graphical team had to do dot animations for a whole new game/theme. Just like with Primus and Supreme, Stern didn't set this MSRP.

    -1
    #94 3 years ago

    You can buy a brand new IM prem for $800 less this makes 0 sense but then again when does it ever.On another note I’d be weary of buying anything with the fluorescent colors inside and out that craze hit in the late 80s early 90s with clothing ,motorcycles ect can’t sell anything from that era.Me personally I think that will be out real soon just don’t get stuck without a chair .IE Met should’ve been flat black and chrome like the band I can’t get over how bad that great license got that screwed up and it’s been going on ever since IMHO.

    #95 3 years ago
    Quoted from Kkoss24:

    You can buy a brand new IM prem for $800 less.

    Really?

    1 month later
    #96 3 years ago

    I bought in.
    I hope it flops.like a dead fish.
    My distributor said build to order (probably less than 100 units).

    I loved the magazine,
    Not all that great at pinball so this ones wizard mode looks much more attainable.

    Sure, I expect to not make back my initial investment. But I hope to not lose my shirt years down the road.

    #97 3 years ago

    I spent less than this for two of my all time favorites recently. I just can't justify it for such a game, even if it is a dream theme for me.

    #98 3 years ago

    Any news on a livestream?

    #99 3 years ago
    Quoted from DS_Nadine:

    Any news on a livestream?

    Not that I know of. I don't think it's at the top of stern's priority list...

    #100 3 years ago

    I was told that Stern was 'distancing itself' due to the titles objectivity of women.
    They make it, but that's it.

    There are 105 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.

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