Marty and Ryan - you guys are killing it. Awesome show!

John Trudeau?

(He asks hoping not...)

Ghostbusters... Mustang... ??? Not sure about the weapon.

Nah... there’s no way. None.

Hmm... that gun looks like it might have something with Kingpin.

Isn’t the call out guy somekind of race driver? Tanner Faust comes to mind. But that could be way off

Butch Peel from JJP.

Ryan and Marty: Seriously. Thank you for these incredible podcasts... your interviews are on point and insightful... and the banter is excellent.

Dare I say: The New Gold Standard?

I think I just did.

You guys are great.

Best, Todd

So...

Something, something, and cheaters?

I like it! I bet those games are a ton of fun to attend

but if someone values that fake scarcity and pays, then it's worth pursing. A company would be foolish not to... it's not an operator's market anymore. They have to get creative and buyers have shown time and time again they're willing to pay. Like it or not, this is the market that buyers have supported.

Didn’t you buy a GBLE????

Spooky made AMH scarce on purpose... it drove sales. same with RZ and now Alice. I don’t see anyone bitching about them.

Personally, I applauded their decisions. They were great business moves.

The LE market has been a proving ground for Stern. The SLE market even more so... both proving there’s no shortage of people looking to spend really big dollars on something that has a manufacturer controlled limited nature. Once those big dollars are spent, folks without big budgets are further priced out, whether it be by trim releases that are super limited in number or by rising prices on the most basic of models.

And when it comes to Stern LE’s... there are many instances where it sells out before even being seen. Why? Because it’s limited by numbers. People want the “special one” even if it’s really not that special.

We, the consumer, have allowed the market to develop like this. Every time there’s a mad dash for LEs, SLEs, and games that are otherwise limited or unique, it only has the marketing folks searching for dollars in more aggressive ways....and I can guarantee that Stern’s limited game release (this year) will sell out. It’s going to happen, I’m sure every distributer has waiting lists right now.

Personally, I’m not a huge fan of artificially collectible items. Rare collectibles that were never intended to be rare are more interesting to me. But I can’t blame companies for making collectibles. Kept the Franklin Mint in business for years and years. Stern and others are simply following the same playbook and keeping their manufacturing lines healthy.

I see what you’re trying to say, but you’re to wrapped up in the dollars . Spooky could have said: we’re making 150 AMH now and reserve the right to make more later. Bit they didn’t. They created smartificial scarcity to sell the games by saying we’re only making 150 ever.... it’s the same thing. Kapow/Stern is going to create the same drive to sell their games, no matter what price, by creating scarcity backed by a promise to never produce something again. The mechanism works the same.

And this notion that someone will dump $8k on a limited version of a game... and then cry out for the common man when the same company offers a radically more expensive exclusively limited version of another game is laughable... LE buyers have set the table for this.

Is it the same? No. But it’s all interconnected and the LE and SLE buyer’s have opened the doors to more exclusively limited releases.

I think it's time you guys consider a daily show... two hours...perhaps around 9AM Eastern Standard Time?

Fans demand more!

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?? Plenty of companies throughout the history of pinball have reused layout elements. That ain’t nothing new!

So Ryan, why the full on Kaneda ban?

Fair enough!

Even with Pirates being released, how many OPs are paying $8.5k for that pin, when they can buy a new Stern for $5k? Can’t be a huge number.

Obviously we’ll have to wait and see, but Deeproot (assuming their pricing and production truly shocks the market) is the only one that could have the ability to target Stern in numbers. That’s not to say JJP and Spooky are legit, but they service niche segments.

Gotta say, @martymainframe, was refreshing to hear your honest take on Iron Maiden. For me, that’s the biggest drawback on that game. I couldn’t have that in my home. Would drive me to crazy town

Can’t agree more with this!

Speaking of toys. Do you guys find it a little weird that the coolest interactive/mechanical features on a pinball machine are called “toys?”

Sounds so odd if you think about it. Even odder when you use that lingo with a non-pinhead. There’s gotta be a better term!!

Seems like "Mech" is a much cooler alternative.

Appreciate the sentiments, but you're obviously are missing the point. My ears say the band sucks. I literally want them out of ears.

You guys need to track down one of the executives that actually had a hand in closing Williams pinball. We've heard all of the "pinball guys" from that era (and this Sharpe interview was a good one!), but I'd be curious to hear some commentary from one of the exes that was at the top of Williams. See how they viewed the pinball division, its innovativeness, competitiveness, and hear some of the behind the scenes stories about the folks that were pulling the strings.

They may have cared about pinball AND numbers... but numbers more. Who knows. There's still gotta be some interesting stories to be told from upper management

I think this episode best illustrates why the casual player (aka 99% of the world's population) will always hold modern pinball as a distraction laced novelty that they'll play once or twice and then walk away from - you have the number one player in the world (seems like a really nice dude, btw) being asked about game rules, and a lot of the responses had "I don't know" or "I'm not sure" in them. IMO, these modern games are built too confusing. Most casuals and beginners can barely move beyond keeping the ball alive, let alone understand collecting points that are layered within code that's extremely difficult for experts to explain.

It's funny, you guys were asking about AC/DC. I've owned AC/DC for over 4 years and I still find myself having to dig for information about rules. Yes, the basics are there... but if I don't play the game for a period of months, it's super difficult to step up and remember some of the more nuanced rules. That's just not the case with my BW era games (most of the time).

Still a little confused how game designers and coders are qualified to play in tournaments where their games are used... especially these Sterns that have layers and layers of rules with small little rules hidden throughout... but that's a whole other story.

I wasn't really referencing the small collecting/playing community... more or less talking about the vast majority of the public that come in contact with these machines. As a baseline, nearly all have no idea that pinball rules exist... and then, once they get the concept of rules associated with a game, they want to know where you can read them. Instruction card, right? As we all know, the instruction card might as well be in greek for the novice, not to mention the fact it only scratches the surface of the depth of rules. Once you start telling a casual that there are hidden layers of rules, total and utter confusion sets in.

Is it working?

I'm not sure. Pinball has certainly experienced some sort of revival, but it's unclear what's driving that. I don't think you can argue that game code and code complexity are what's attracting most coin drops to games. Home collectors and tournament players, yes. But collectors and players make up a fraction of the population that interacts with redemption machines, arcade games, pinballs, etc.

Your response actually opens an entirely different layer to this general topic, because I think there's a huge difference between what tournament minded players and most player/collectors (or just collectors) want or value in a game. You and Marty both fall into tournament player realm... so it's not surprising that you quickly move games from past eras. But I don't think that's the case for most collectors or play (but not in a competitive sense).

Anyhow, I actually think pinball has a much better chance of gaining wider acceptance by simplifying itself. That wouldn't satisfy the tournament player or the super savvy home collector, but it would allow the game to more easily integrate with the common arcade environment. In fact, if I were a pinball manufacturer, I'd hedge my bets on completely scraping what pinball has become... making machines that look very similar, but built completely around dispensing tickets for completing very basic and clearly defined tasks that are described on an LCD screen. If you created a scenario where games were bright, flashy, and mechanically inclined, laced with modern/popular themes... and they satisfied the need for instant gratification (giving tickets) while offering some level of skill that was attainable to the complete lay-person, I bet you'd see them more frequently played in family fun centers and on boardwalks.

Is that last notion completely anti-pinball as we know it? Hell yeah. But lets not forget, pins were built - for years - with the coin drop in mind. All of us crazies decided to collect them. I think a better modern version of pinball would revert back to the notion of trying to grab coin. It wouldn't satisfy us... but I think it would satisfy a much larger segment of the population.

. Oops...

For #2... yes. But their games aren’t truly built to serve the purpose of acting as redemption. It’s a forced modification on a game that’s made for idiots like you and I.

Ask yourself... if you wanted to build a thriving business that was designed to make money (which the coinop business is built around). Are you making redemption machines that typical suck in $1k every few weeks for operators... or are you opting to fall on your sword to make pinball for a very narrow audience of home collectors and a smattering of operators.

It’s hard to deny that a hybrid version of pinball could actually make money beyond being a curiosity or novelty.

That’s what I would go for, fwiw

Wh2o is one of the great sound packages of all time.

I had the same reaction... and ended up skipping a good chunk of the interview.

Interesting interview. A little awkward at times, but some interesting nuggets. Kind of reminded me of this, which will make no sense to H2H, but:

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You’re not alone - every pinhead loves Lyman

That TWIPY dismissal was weird, gentlemen.

“What they’re meant to do is celebrate pinball... but like everything in life, that’s not always what happens.”

How did that not happen last year? That TWIPY show was a super entertaining celebration of pinball.... the SDTM guys rocked it and TWIP deserves hats off for pulling together a fantastic idea.

I don’t get the dismissive stance. Kind of awkward for category winners that actually win and take some pride in it. As far as I can tell, last year’s awards were spot on across the board. It was nice to see the community have a chance to recognize and thank those that bring top-notch entertainment to the space.

Can someone send me CF’s address so I can mail him a box of tissues? The guy is constantly bitching and crying about one critique or another. It’s a total downer listening to his interviews... geesh.

How about privately reaching out to Taylor and explain your process to him. He’s a solid guy. If he doesn’t understand, help him understand.

Save your time. It's not worth listening to... at what point it was deemed worthy of broadcasting out to the world? I don't understand why it was considered a good idea to post.

But, yes, it's Taylor Reese, who has a great reputation. Frankly, his opinion is spot-on.

Yup. Well said, swinks.

Opinions are all over the map on this. Each to the their own. IMO, not a good choice.

Like this? https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/do-you-listen-to-pinball-podcasts/page/2#post-4725948

At the end of the day, you're getting the attention you want, but you can't always send your message and then turn around and deflect as if you're totally middle ground. As for Franchi... you guys should have helped the guy out and told him it wasn't a great idea to air that bit. That's not censorship, it's actually more like friendship. Would have certainly been doing him a professional favor.

You guys have gotten your panties in so much of a wad over Kaneda, it's kind of disturbing. I certainly know your conversation wasn't about the fact that voters might not have played every game on the ballot.

Kaneda is flawed... but aren't we all in our own ways?

There's a ton of fun pinball content out there – he just happens to have a singularly unique approach/style/spin. It's like Simon on those talent shows - people appreciate brutal honesty and it just so happens that Chris has the personality to pull that off. That's probably why he's deserving of some recognition. It's just a slice of really unique entertainment. Emphasis: entertainment.

I've never been a big fan of groups collectively deciding to shun someone. It's a real turnoff. It would be way easier if you take the opposite approach and extend a friendly hand – all of you (including Jeff). It's the right thing to do. This kind of vibe you have going isn't good for anyone, no matter what the past is. It's much easier to forgive and forget... take away from that and try to forge something positive. You can keep someone at arm's length and still be friendly, btw. That's a way better option than the path all of you have chosen to take.

Great listen… thanks for the morning smiles. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!