(Topic ID: 87496)

IT'S ALIVE!, (take 2)- 1968 Gottlieb Royal Guard - continuing saga.


By dasvis

5 years ago



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  • 100 posts
  • 23 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by PinballFever
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#1 5 years ago

Picked up a '68 Royal guard wedgehead today with an below average cabinet & really nice, no wear & unplanked playfield. Drove out into the boondocks to pick this up... Toledo, Oregon.
Sadly missing is the entire backbox.
Anyone have a spare head that they can part with?

Dasvis

#3 5 years ago

Bump -
Will be at the NW pin show

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from RWH:

You really need to change the title thread............

Yeah, but it made you look.

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from boilerman:

that what I was going to say. it should be easy to find a beater royal guard

Ahh, I see you are from back East. Out here on the West coast even parts games are difficult to come by, let alone a specific title.

#14 5 years ago

Bumpity bump

#15 5 years ago

Will be at the NW Pin show -- I can pick up there!

#16 5 years ago

Bump for freshness.

2 weeks later
#17 5 years ago

May bump
- PNW pin show coming up!

10 months later
#18 4 years ago

Starting to work on this again. Hoov sent me a bare head with lightboard & wiring a few months back & I came up with relays, a credit unit, & some score reels. Had a bit of trouble with UPS on damage, but with a quart or so of wood glue, it's usable! No problem.
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RatT sent me a bunch of photos of his Royal Guard backbox that helped too.
It's a slow process tracing wires - I am using colored NEMA wire tags to help keep track of what goes where, labeling as I go. Credit unit is installed, & just starting on the last relay. Getting a lot better at schematic reading (go figure).
Yeah, it looks like a mess as I had to extend all of the wires & did not have any that color matched, but along with the labeling I have made up for each relay a chart showing what color tags go where. Along with the schematic this will help for future troubleshooting.
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Next up is score reels.......
I have no 0~9 unit, & from the schematic it appears that I can just turn off the match feature & that will effectively take the 0~9 unit out of the game. Will save time too, as it gets it's match number off of the ones reel. I won't have to hook those up. -- Well at least until I can scrounge up a 0~9 unit.

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#20 4 years ago

Not yet.
As long as the disc, wiper, & shaft are there I can cobble something together if your offering it up.

This is a great educational experience - So far I have learned how to piece together AG relays from junk to make what I need, what all the switches do & why there's those odd little jumper connectors you sometimes see on the relays. -- Schematic reading & where different wire colors start & stop (always a mystery to me) -- How the score reel interact with each other, & so on....

the score reel sets that I have are later than 1968 (probably 1974 or so), Steve @ PBR said the silkscreening on the boards is different, & maybe the switches. I guess we will see.

Now, if it works when I'm done

Dasvis

#22 4 years ago

All relays mapped & wired in, mapped & tagged the score adjust plugs & sockets this morning....
About 1/3 of the way there I think.

#24 4 years ago

Thanks for the offer. Will advise.
Will be a couple of weeks before I get back to it. I am in New Zealand right now
Dasvis

2 weeks later
#26 4 years ago

Coming along with mapping wiring & soldering stuff in. Just received the 0~9 unit from Hoov, working on the install now. It's getting closer... I'm thinking this thing might just work when I am done....
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#28 4 years ago
Quoted from MidWestPin:

I just found this thread. Let me know if you need a backglass, I can send you photos of the ones that I have. None are mint, but you might be able to touch one up.

Actually, a really cool pinsider donated a glass to this project already Thanks!!

#29 4 years ago

-- 0-9 unit installed. Wires are routed a bit differently than original, but this gives me more clearance to work on it & makes it not so crowded by the score reel wiring.
-- 5" 100 point bell installed. Still needing to come up with the 3" 10 point bell. Yeah, I know PBR has them, but I was hoping to find one cheaper.
-- Correct flat sided decagon score reel set should arrive tomorrow.
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Made up cheat sheets to make identifying my wiring tags...
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#30 4 years ago

Decagons arrived in VERY nice shape. They work so smoothly and are so clean I'm just going to check the switches & install them.
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Pulled the cabinet out of storage & bolted the head on to check fit after assembling the head from a pile of broken pieces.... it's not pretty yet, I want to make sure the mechanicals work before I put much effort into cosmetics.

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#32 4 years ago
Quoted from Rat_Tomago:

What pictures do you need from me. Royal Guard is back from TPF and I have my energy back and ready to help out more.

OK, the score reels I picked up was pulled from a '68 Paul Bunyan & was the player 2 set. As shown in photo above they have a lot of the original wiring still attached. I ordered a schematic from PBR so I could verify wire color codes & where they went.
I could use some pics of the score reel switch wiring - showing clearly what color wires go to which switch - I just want to be darn sure I hook this up correctly. The circuit board wires are pretty easy to figure out with the schematic.
Also - below is a scan from the Gott parts catalog, Can you take a look & let me know for sure which switch stack is used? B-9576 or B-9577?
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Thanks - Dasvis

#36 4 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

Dasvis,
Good catch on the switch arrangements. I swapped some lesser played Sea Shore player two score reels into a well played Slick Chick and found the score reels would not reset properly. Had to rework the switches on both sides. So knowing what the switch stack arrangement is on someone else's Royal Guard is spot on.

Yeah, I had talked to Steve @ PBR & he clued me in on that issue. I would have thought that they were all the same otherwise. Once you get past the in your face New Yorker-ness he's a great guy & a true asset to the hobby.

#37 4 years ago
Quoted from Rat_Tomago:

Dasvis, I sold the game to Xerico Pinball (Marcus) to fund another game. Maybe he can help you out. It is in his garage set up and easy for him to pull out. He is one of the moderators on pinside so hopefully he checks in on this post.

OK, thanks.

- The NW pin show is a month away, with luck someone will drag a RG to the show & I can get a peek in the backbox. - Unless, of course, I can get some good pics sooner. (hint, hint)

#38 4 years ago

Slow & tedious process. Just starting on the final score reel circuit board connections.
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Man, having that extra length of wiring there really makes it a LOT easier to work on.

Still have to solder in the switch connections, but holding off on those until I get some good pics of them off of an existing Royal guard. Entering the home stretch.

Yeah, I ordered the 10 point bell from PBR, needed some other odds & ends anyway.

#40 4 years ago

Well, too late for this project, but I appreciate the offer.
Thanks - Dasvis

#41 4 years ago

Finally finished wiring all of the components into the head. I picked up a "parts" head from a High hand, & it solved the mystery of the score reel switches. It had the correct switch setup, three B-9576 switches (used in 1's, 10's, & 100's) and one B-10428 (used in 1000's). Pulled those out & installed them in my correct flat sided decagon reels & the contacts all match the schematic.
Zip tied everything back up to neaten it a bit.
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Tomorrow morning will install & see if it works!

-- Oh yeah, picked up a nice 5" bell from the cool dudes @ Blairally in Eugene. Chad & Dillon, you rock! Coil was a bit boogered, but for some reason I had an NOS one in my parts pile....

#44 4 years ago

First, checked all fuses for proper values & surprisingly, they were all good & correct! Put the head on & plugged it in. Lights came on, & it popped a 1A relay bank reset fuse. Replaced fuse & tried again. Fuse did not blow again, so I'm guessing that the mech was just sticky from years of non-use. Does not reset score reels, flippers work, start button deducts from the credit wheel, knocker does not work, reset banks work, tilt works, no score switches or related bells ring. Score reels move when relays are hand activated.
Did not really expect it to work first try & no wires got hot or smoked (which is nice), have yet to pull lower board to clean & inspect so that's my next project.

#46 4 years ago

Thanks Pinhead52, will check that out.
Pulled lower board- inspected & cleaned all of the switches. Found one switch on the score motor that was bent in the middle so it was making constant contact - fixed that. Other than that there was nothing out of the ordinary, just normal grime. When I clean switches, I make the first pass with a strip of business card stock soaked in 91% alcohol to remove any contaminates, & then follow with a light swipe with a flexstone. Those relay bank switches are a pain in the ass.

#47 4 years ago

Well, moving along slowly, checking my work & doing another once over on the switches.
Found a couple of chafed wires with burnt insulation on the "D" relay & the reset switch set with no relay - both located under the playfield on the big bank of resetting relays. Looks like the bar rubbed on them ---
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I probably could have gotten away with desoldering the leads & slipping some shrink wrap over them, but it looked like some of the strands were broken. Found some correct cloth covered wire & spliced it in, shrink wrapped it & resoldered to the switches. Put a zip tie on it to be sure that it did not happen again.
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Popped a 10A lightbox fuse, checked wiring & then found a new bulb that the base had come loose & caused a dead short. Damn cheap Eiko bulbs anyway.

#49 4 years ago

It's alive! Yeah!!!
After fixing the chafed wires, I went back thru & re-checked and re-cleaned all switch connections. Got a new stainless steel toothbrush & polished up all of the Jones plug connections, put playfield back in & plugged it in. Crossed my fingers & pushed the start button..................
score reels reset, a ball was kicked out. Launched it and the scoring worked, bells were ringing, flippers, pop bumpers, slingshots, snap targets - all good. Ball drained & was kicked back out. Finished the game & it matched.... knocker fired.
I could not believe it, after all of the hours & hours of searching for parts. soldering, wire tracing, & general anguish it actually works (mostly)

The bad - not working -- playfield GI lights, feature lamps, ball in play lights. These should be an easy fix. Have yet to pull the playfield back up & look. ....... to be continued.....

#51 4 years ago
Quoted from wayner:

Great news dasvis-must be a great feeling after all the toil

Indeed... Too bad I have to go to work.. Would love to mess with this all day. Just got off the phone with PBR & ordered some odds & ends for it.

#56 4 years ago

Thanks all, could not have done it without your help.

Next up - a move to the dark side, a Williams Alien poker that I have been promising to fix for 2+ years....

#57 4 years ago
Quoted from boilerman:

well done! I have tackled some big projects but to be honest I am not sure I would tried that one.
not many can say the rewired a light board
BRAVO!!!

Well, it helped immensely in that the wiring harness (though cut) was still on the light board...

#59 4 years ago
Quoted from boilerman:

don't cut yourself short just because some wires were there doesn't mean it was any easier!
(pun intended)

Well yeah, a LOT of hours were spent beeping out wires with my trusty Fluke & scouring the schematic. Found a couple of runs that were done in the wrong color & one or two questionable schematic connections. It's not done yet, but I can see the finish line.

#61 4 years ago

Popping fuse on lower playfield GI Lights & feature lights. Pulled all bulbs & issue went away - must have been a shorted bulb somewhere.
Cleaned underside of inserts w/ Q-tip & #1 Novus while I had good access. How the hell do these get so dirty?
Replacing all with some cheap #47's that I picked up from Pinball life in the 100 packs. Not so sure about these, I think you get what you pay for. Gotta find me some NOS GE #47's from back in the day.

#63 4 years ago

Too late, replaced them all & problem solved.
The "0" match light was not working, looked in the socket & I had gotten wood glue in there. De-soldered & installed new socket - it works!

#64 4 years ago

Still fighting issues. Pulled playfield & lower board to get at the switch banks, check for solder bombs, & perhaps bits of wire shorting something out.
Wiped & blew all debris out, Checked & re-cleaned all switches on the bottom board--- what did I find? .... Of all things a misadjusted contact on the start relay. Damn, must have been in a hurry the first go around. That should solve some issues! Also noted a broken score motor brake at the 3-1/2 position, it's ordered from PBR & should arrive early next week.

#66 4 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

Sometimes they work fine without the brake switch but I like to replace them anyway. Getting closer....

Yeah, I don't think Gottlieb would have spent the extra $$ for it if it was not needed.

#67 4 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

Too late, replaced them all & problem solved.

Well, so I had thought - fuse started blowing again. Finally found a wire loose on the right front light under the apron. Soldered it up & so far it's good.

Installed score motor brake.

Feature lights not working as they should... that's next up.

#69 4 years ago

Rebuilt the flippers.. a lot of WD40 removal here. Thank God that looks like the only place they used it on.
Before
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After - Might go with some orange dot coils from PBR, depending how these play. I put a set of four in my King kool & it really improved gameplay.
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Going to have to buy one of those new repro coin doors from PBR. This one would not have been too bad, except someone buggered up the coin return.
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1 week later
#70 4 years ago

Continuing with underside playfield. Replacing coil sleeves & polishing brackets while I do so just because they look so good.
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Stalled at the last pop bumper. Short one damn mylar playfield protector. Should arrive from PBR today.......
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1 week later
#71 4 years ago

Stalled on the RG project.-- with the warmer weather I really need to finish up clearcoat on my High hand .........

To be continued

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1 year later
#72 2 years ago

Well, High hand got finished (just a player's pin), finished up Alien poker, & restored my Old Chicago.
Now back to Royal Guard..... Need to dust it off first. It's been sitting a while.....

2 months later
#74 2 years ago

OK, Royal Guard is back in the shop already & assembled. Now, back to this short issue that has been a thorn in my side for the last year or two...
Plugged it in and tested to refresh what is left of my memory, & the GI lights come on, but very dim and then the 10A playfield light fuse blows. Pulled plugs until I isolated the one that was causing the short, that narrowed it down some - it was the 18-pin plug for mostly playfield lights. Desoldered GI light string power leads & it sill popped the fuse. Re-connected GI.
Tracked down the leads for the controlled lights & desoldered..... BINGO. GI lights were nice & bright. NO fuse blown. Problem in controlled light string. Ran out of time, got to head to work. To be continued!

Hope to have this ready for paint this spring.
I have a Gottlieb Top card that's been sitting for 4 or 5 years, a '57 Bally Showtime bingo, & a Chicago coin Top ten waiting for attention........

Looking back, I may be going for the record on longest restore time. I started this over two years ago. Time flys.

10 months later
#75 1 year ago

Well, after getting sidetracked with a Seawitch project, I'm back on this damn Royal Guard from hell.
Found a decent populated lightboard from fellow Pinsider Gdonovan, it arrived last Tuesday & it looks good. I have it on the bench & have gone thru rebuilding the 0~9 unit & the two stand alone bells. Have the credit unit apart now... another week or so & I sould be able to plug it in & see how it goes.

#78 1 year ago
Quoted from hwyhed:

Gotta give u credit for the all the work that u put in this game..I have a RG as well, and I really enjoy playing it..if I can help u with any pix/info I’d be glad to try n help out..

Thanks, I really get more fun out of fixing these than I do playing them I think. Put on some soothing vintage Steely dan stuff on the UE booms & putter around with it in the garage. Finished cleaning up the replay unit this morning.

#80 1 year ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Hey! A Dan Fan. I really like them too. Know all the words!

Is there gas in the car?

#82 1 year ago

Well, so far every mechanical unit on this replacement lightboard has had an issue, but the important stuff is all in good shape.
1-pt bell was missing, 10-pt bell had some odd homemade striker that was too short, the 100-pt bell was missing the striker, the replay unit was missing a nylon spacer in the switch stack, & the one point score reel had the contact for the match unit on upside down so it would not register matches. All easily fixed or replaced, as I was able to rob them off of the old board.
Gottlieb Decagon score reels bite my balls. I had forgotten what a pain in the ass they are.

Three score reels & the relay bank to go & we test.

#83 1 year ago

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Lightboard mechanical rebuild done! Just some minor cleanup of jones plug sockets & light bulb sockets to go... but we will test this weekend.

#85 1 year ago

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#86 1 year ago

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Well, I installed the rebuilt lightboard in & switched it on. It works! No fuses popped. Some minor adjustments needed of course, but I think it's finally working as it should.
Big thanks to all that helped on this 3 year (so far) project... Gdonovan for the nice populated lightboard, Rat-Tomago for his photos, Hoov for the backbox, parts & bare light board that I attempted piecing together, ccotenj for the fantastic backglass, & others who helped make this possible. there are parts from at least 6 pins in this thing. I learned a lot from my failures on this one, was worth every hour that I spent on this (& there were many)
Once I get the adjustments done, I plan on bringing this into my office & playing it until spring.. then tear it down again & do a total repaint.

2 weeks later
#91 1 year ago

Just got a shipment in from PBR. I must say, his repro coin doors are stunning!
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Did a bit of polish work on the coin mech holders.... that brass-like plating is the bomb.
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Not perfect, but it will do. still working on assembly.
Damn Iphone pic... not sure what went on with that

#92 1 year ago
Quoted from hoov:

Way to go!
I just picked up a Royal Guard last spring and need to finish it this winter now that things are slowing down.

I have some extra backbox mechs & stuff if you need it Hoov..

1 week later
#94 1 year ago

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Well, the mechanicals, lights, switches. & gameplay are now at 100% working. Finally!
Had a small issue with the match & high scores credits not registering properly. Slept on it & had a eureka moment @ 2AM, so I ran out & checked. Sure enough -- I had put the contacts in the score reels in the wrong position...Bingo - Fixed.
Plays great, fun pin, love the two different on playfield specials. This is my first 2" flipper pin - thought they were lame before but this one has changed my mind on the subject.
Next up will paint this spring & it's done.

Note- no backglass in the pin because I did not want to bring it out into my cold garage...

1 year later
#97 8 months ago

I managed to get white base coat and webbing on the head before winter hit, I pulled all of the trim off of the cabinet and got all of the old paint stripped and went thru and redid any questionable glue joints. Had to knock the front of the cab out and re glue it in.
So, it sits now until the weather warms so I can get paint on it.

#99 8 months ago
Quoted from Classicpinballs:

What process did you use for the webbing effect please?
( I want to do my own Royal guard this year)

Used a wire brush & flicked the paint on with it. Clay Harrell shows the technique in one of his guides. Works ok, I probably went too heavy with it, but it's better than none at all.. practice makes perfect.

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