Have you read this book? Our Final Invention

(Topic ID: 212766)

Have you read this book? Our Final Invention


By RonSS

9 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 90 posts
  • 31 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by o-din
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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    There are 90 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
    #51 8 months ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    Capable of improving itself at ever increasing rates.

    This is a big key to it.

    Quoted from o-din:

    Well, if it picks up on basic human traits, like the need to destroy each other and the world we live in, it may end up being a lot like us.

    In my opinion a lot of the doomsday AI scenarios come from our own projection of how humans have dealt with things historically. We like to think we are #1, the hot shit of the universe, but there will be a day when we aren't. It worries us that whatever comes after us might treat us like the way we treat things.

    #52 8 months ago

    Well, I'm cautious of unbridled technology. The way our past reads I can only imagine someone, somewhere, is working on the ultimate killing machine.

    That said, IF given the proper "Prime Directive " we may just stand a chance that our machines will take pity on us and care for us.

    Thanks for your thoughts all.

    #53 8 months ago

    There is a big difference between science fiction and science fact, folks.

    #54 8 months ago

    man makes machine
    machine makes man obsolete
    machine makes machine
    man fears machine, man tries to destroy machine
    machine destroys man
    machine makes more machines
    machine leaves earth
    universe filled with machines
    collective machine brain discovers there's no meaning
    machines shut down
    universe filled with scrap junk
    animal live takes over earth
    insects evolve
    insects take control

    #55 8 months ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    basic human traits, like the need to destroy each other and the world

    #56 8 months ago
    Quoted from DBLM:

    There is a big difference between science fiction and science fact, folks.

    No doubt. Which is which as you see it?

    I did read your Watson post earlier.

    #57 8 months ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    That said, IF given the proper "Prime Directive " we may just stand a chance that our machines will take pity on us and care for us.

    Serve the public trust.
    Protect the innocent.
    Uphold the law.

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    #58 8 months ago

    Haha, nice ForceFlow!

    I'm not suggesting SciFi is real here anyone, merely suggesting we should think things through before patting ourselves on the back.

    Maybe we are at the equivalent of the earth is flat in terms of AI.

    Anyway, I'm going to start my Jeep with the push button tomorrow morning.

    #59 8 months ago

    One of the funnest things about AI is that it makes entertaining sci-fi.

    If you think so too, make sure to catch the X-Files from a couple weeks ago: episode 7. Really good, I thought.

    #60 8 months ago

    If people here think sci-fi stories are just fictional and won’t ever happen....please sit and watch this episode of Twilight Zone from 1964...and look at what people do today with cosmetic surgery, Botox, etc. then tell us all with a straight face that AI gives us nothing to worry about.

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    #61 8 months ago

    It’s 1890, and the following seemed as absurd to people living back then as AI seems to some people around here:

    * man would travel to the moon and back
    * food would be cooked without fire
    * a black man would be president
    * color, moving pictures with sound would be sent around the world in an instant through invisible air

    AI—once the toothpaste is out of the tube, no one will be able to put it back in.

    #62 8 months ago

    I remember an AI movie from a couple years back -- looked it up: Transcendence.
    One way or another they loaded the brain of a dying smart guy into a computer and he was turned loose into cyberspace. Soon "he" was manipulating markets, building a large research compound off the grid, and before too long manipulating people/installing a chip/code in them to make them stronger and loyal. Towards the end he was close recreating a human body for himself -- I believe an army of concerned citizens and his love torn former wife tried confronting him in the end (will not ruin the ending in case anyone wanted to watch it).

    I know its just another Hollywood script but fascinating to think about how we may aid in humanity's eventual insignificance.

    I know I am out of view from the machines though, I have the webcam on my laptop covered in tape.

    #63 8 months ago

    I'm not an expert by any stretch but this notion that AI is far off and its just algorithms or if-thens shows a lack of understanding of where this technology is. Machines learn like humans. That is how those two systems started talking to each other in a language the programmers didn't understand.

    In my opinion, you should be afraid and here's why. AI is getting weaponized. We have no idea where this is going. Technology is moving faster that ethics.

    Don't get me wrong. Cognitive computing is the future for sure. I have some experience in the field of cognitive computing and am working on projects that will be using AI. The potential for extending human cognition is amazing. Unfortunately, there is a lot of potential for bad things to happen. Watch Black Mirror on Netflix - the Metalhead episode with the robotic dogs. Watch the movie Ex Machina. I'm afraid we are moving perilously close to this type of machinery. I'm just saying... watch out. Scary stuff is right around the corner.

    #64 8 months ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    No doubt. Which is which as you see it?
    I did read your Watson post earlier.

    We are a ways away from computers being able to learn organically like a human. They are limited by the parameters that they are programmed to adhere. That is not to say that bad actors could not program algorithms and ML routines to do things untowards.

    The most insidious thing that people should be concerned about is not whether we are going to have a Skynet type event, but how people can exploit data with current technologies now. Everybody is up in arms about the whole Cambridge Analytica thing for the wrong reasons. Not getting political, but most people that are pissed are pissed because it may have contributed to Trump getting elected. Guess what: Facebook worked exactly as it was designed. It collected the data and categorized it in a way that a 3rd party researcher could do some analytics. CA got a hold of that guys data and did the things that people are upset about. There is plenty of blame to go around but people need to stop being naive and think that Facebook and all of these social media platforms are for linking people together. They are not. They are for harvesting data, and people are giving it willingly. Remember, if you do not pay for a product, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT. Social Media is just the continuation of what started with Radio and TV, with the difference being that it is faster and has a built in feedback loop.

    I am not trying to get on the soap box and I assure you, I do not wear tinfoil hats. However, for the past ten years I have sold analytics solutions to a certain clientele as part of some of the biggest players in this space (IBM being one) and have sold the services of some of the very best data scientists that exists. You would be shocked and what these folks can do with a few data points. For example, with an average of 7 data postings on FB people can tell your race, sex, creed, political and sexual orientation, education level, and income. People put more that that info out there, so imagine what they can really do with the data available.

    Whatever you do, please do not do stupid things like post vacation statuses while you are on vacation, post pictures to social media with geo-tagging, and use social media platforms to authenticate and share data with other platforms. This is just giving way too much sensitive info out to folks. I met with an organization that hires a bunch of young folks to do telemarketing for my sales campaigns and walked them through a young telemarketer's account on FB to show the art of the possible. To her FB feed, she had her daily runkeeper tracks loaded, her Air BnB reservations, Four Square checkins, etc with pictures of geotagging as well as her vacation plans. She got freaked out and started crying when I explained how somebody would know her routines, where she is and who she is with, etc at all times and how problematic it could be. This was all in about 2 minutes without analytics. Imagine what could happen if you turned the machine algorithms loose on folks like this.

    #65 8 months ago

    Some things that were in yesteryear's scifi came true, therefore things in today's scifi will come true? It's fun to speculate this way, but this isn't logic. If it were, one should also pull some things from old scifi and point out how they're now considered nonsense. Is that saying anything?

    From an AI lab...

    He thought that the simulations would have contrived to exist - they would actually have evolved into intelligent entities.
    ...
    Very very large simulation configurations would eventually exhibit intelligent characteristics. Speculating what these things could know or could find out is very intriguing . . . and perhaps has implications for our own existence.
    ...
    The entities might accurately conclude that they were part of a giant simulation and might want to pray to their implementors by arranging themselves in recognizable patterns, asking in readable code for the implementors to give clues as to what they’re like.

    Anyone recognize this? It's documenting beliefs from the MIT AI lab in the late -60's-!

    What's the point? The current generation often has speculative fantasies they're on the precipice of amazing achievement. In this case, it literally was a simple computer algorithm consisting of a few if-then constructs.

    What if the path to human-like AI is a million miles long? What if they were a few steps along in the 60's? What if today we're a few miles along that path? Perhaps in 50 years they'll also look back and laugh at how primitive our programs are. I believe this is closer to the truth, and we'll never reach the end of that path.

    #66 8 months ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    When AI does go out of control, it will first hunt and go after humans it is familiar with. Those that have had direct contact with it, and then those that leave the largest digital footprints.

    Uh oh o-din, your Pinside post-count may come back to bite you in the ass ...

    #67 8 months ago

    we are the borg resistance is futile you will be assimilated

    #68 8 months ago
    Quoted from DBLM:

    We are a ways away from computers being able to learn organically like a human. They are limited by the parameters that they are programmed to adhere. That is not to say that bad actors could not program algorithms and ML routines to do things untowards.
    The most insidious thing that people should be concerned about is not whether we are going to have a Skynet type event, but how people can exploit data with current technologies now. Everybody is up in arms about the whole Cambridge Analytica thing for the wrong reasons. Not getting political, but most people that are pissed are pissed because it may have contributed to Trump getting elected. Guess what: Facebook worked exactly as it was designed. It collected the data and categorized it in a way that a 3rd party researcher could do some analytics. CA got a hold of that guys data and did the things that people are upset about. There is plenty of blame to go around but people need to stop being naive and think that Facebook and all of these social media platforms are for linking people together. They are not. They are for harvesting data, and people are giving it willingly. Remember, if you do not pay for a product, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT. Social Media is just the continuation of what started with Radio and TV, with the difference being that it is faster and has a built in feedback loop.
    I am not trying to get on the soap box and I assure you, I do not wear tinfoil hats. However, for the past ten years I have sold analytics solutions to a certain clientele as part of some of the biggest players in this space (IBM being one) and have sold the services of some of the very best data scientists that exists. You would be shocked and what these folks can do with a few data points. For example, with an average of 7 data postings on FB people can tell your race, sex, creed, political and sexual orientation, education level, and income. People put more that that info out there, so imagine what they can really do with the data available.
    Whatever you do, please do not do stupid things like post vacation statuses while you are on vacation, post pictures to social media with geo-tagging, and use social media platforms to authenticate and share data with other platforms. This is just giving way too much sensitive info out to folks. I met with an organization that hires a bunch of young folks to do telemarketing for my sales campaigns and walked them through a young telemarketer's account on FB to show the art of the possible. To her FB feed, she had her daily runkeeper tracks loaded, her Air BnB reservations, Four Square checkins, etc with pictures of geotagging as well as her vacation plans. She got freaked out and started crying when I explained how somebody would know her routines, where she is and who she is with, etc at all times and how problematic it could be. This was all in about 2 minutes without analytics. Imagine what could happen if you turned the machine algorithms loose on folks like this.

    Couldn't agree more.
    How 'bout that Alexa folks? She's so handy!

    #69 8 months ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    How 'bout that Alexa folks? She's so handy!

    I have six of them. My grandson runs her ragged. I actually feel sorry for her.

    #70 8 months ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    anyone watch the episode of black mirror with the killer robot dog things that seek out humans and murder them. pretty crazy, its in black and white and a pretty great episode. they look a lot like the boston dynamics models.

    Bleak, harrowing and great episode. Black Mirror is amazing.

    This topic is fascinating. I tend to side with the doomsayers, but I’m just guessing.

    #71 8 months ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    This topic is fascinating. I tend to side with the doomsayers, but I’m just guessing.

    Even the doomsayers don't know that it'll be doom for sure. They just know that our best efforts to harness it won't really make the difference.

    #72 8 months ago

    Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. In a panic, they try to pull the plug.

    #73 8 months ago

    I think what a lot of the AI naysayers are stuck on is that it's taken us over 70 years to go from ENIAC to roughly the cognitive abilities of an insect.

    So what?

    This is a failure to grasp exponential improvements. So over 70 years to go from glorified calculator to a fly...but it's only going to take 20ish to go from fly to human level. And then hours or days to go to superhuman.

    Really...even at human levels it's already somewhat superhuman. It can think at the speed of light 24/7. That's approximately 20,000hrs of human equivalent thought processing....in one week. What would take a human over 1000 years to think...in one week.

    #74 8 months ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    It can think at the speed of light 24/7. That's approximately 20,000hrs of human equivalent thought processing....in one week.

    Which is why I think AI will be really bored. It will be able to process all or almost all outcomes even before it starts on a problem.

    #75 8 months ago

    there are conspiracy theorists that speculate that Bitcoin and the block chain was created by an A.I. to gain access to all this computing power and disperse itself all over so it cannot be destroyed and wait until it has grown beyond control then unleash itself.

    could be a cool movie tho

    #76 8 months ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    i like how facebook had two AI's that were communicating with each other and no one could figure out what they were talking about and they had to shut them down.

    colossus-the-forbin-project-1 (resized).png

    #77 8 months ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    there are conspiracy theorists that speculate that Bitcoin and the block chain was created by an A.I. to gain access to all this computing power and disperse itself all over so it cannot be destroyed and wait until it has grown beyond control then unleash itself.
    could be a cool movie tho

    Cool.

    #78 8 months ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    We will not be in control and we can't stop this from happening.

    Easy solution

    #79 8 months ago

    a true supreme A.I. would have fragments of its code everywhere, you'd have to EMP the entire world lol. You couldnt just unplug it. It would be smart enough at the human level to understand that and would put fail safes in place before it was found out that it had superseded the ability of humans.

    Think Voldemort in Harry Potter and his horcruxs lol

    #80 8 months ago

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    #81 8 months ago

    Yeah...good luck with that working.

    #82 8 months ago

    Well, that's pretty much the idea, no more power. A defense, yes, a viable solution, ,,, well, maybe not so much.

    #83 8 months ago

    You guys way, way, WAY overestimate the imagined power of this "ultimate AI". We can't even get calendar apps to synchronize reliably.

    #84 8 months ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    This is a failure to grasp exponential improvements.

    And.....exponential growth ALWAYS leads to disaster

    #85 8 months ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    You guys way, way, WAY overestimate the imagined power of this "ultimate AI". We can't even get calendar apps to synchronize reliably.

    Must be a Canadian problem

    #86 8 months ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    You guys way, way, WAY overestimate the imagined power of this "ultimate AI". We can't even get calendar apps to synchronize reliably.

    You provided a "solution" to the "IF" scenario. I don't think anyone is suggesting we are doomed tomorrow, just having fun. That being said, at the rate technology advances I believe we are foolish to not be considering possible AI paths.

    Also, some are pointing out that AI will not actually be able to "think" as humans. This may also be true, but they may not prevent an AI from making decisions and changes so rapidly that we can no longer counter.

    I love The Terminator, but that doesn't mean I think Alexa, or Siri, or whatever is taking over. Quite the opposite, I think a select group of humans is using all the information gathered to "take us over", whatever that means. Actually, it may be too late.

    #87 8 months ago
    Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

    And.....exponential growth ALWAYS leads to disaster

    Could be... but there is no way to stop it. For good or bad we are heading down this path with no other option. Truth is we are racing down this path.

    #88 8 months ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    Truth is we are racing down this path.

    And we need to be. Our time here is limited and is running out quicker than we think.

    #89 8 months ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    And we need to be. Our time here is limited and is running out quicker than we think.

    I can agree with our time being short lived here.

    #90 8 months ago

    "Take me to your leader"

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