(Topic ID: 246630)

Have you had any issues with Mirco playfield quality?

By harryhoudini

4 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 247 posts
  • 69 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by cottonm4
  • Topic is favorited by 24 Pinsiders

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“Do you have Mirco playfields with issues? ”

  • JJP Mirco Playfield With Issues (Chipping, Cracking, Bunching of Clear) 34 votes
    55%
  • Direct Mirco Playfield With Issues (Chipping, Cracking, Bunching of Clear) 28 votes
    45%

(62 votes)

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#116 4 years ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Paging Dr. kruzman
The cherry ontop was the side rail holes were drilled crooked and the majority of holes drilled 1/8" to the right. A mutual friend had a Mirco FH pf and had the same clear coat pooling but also the graphics lifted up with the pooling and was chipped to hell (down tot eh wood) after 6 months of being routed. Friends of a friend were at TPF and they looked at Mircos booth. Specifically the FH playfields. They confirmed the playfield they could see was also drilled 1/8" off which makes the playfield junk. Mirco was notified of my issues via email before and during TPF. Never responded while at TPF. Imagine the poor bastards who have a playfield in the closet or hanging on the wall that's misdrilled LOL. It truly is a wall hanger now!

screw holes are a simple fix

#117 4 years ago
Quoted from cjmjmm2006:

One test game to make sure the game plays as intended. Literally one shot out of the scoop and a chunk of the paint comes flying off of the game. Enough of the finish plus the paint came off the of field that the ball was effected by this partial loss of the playing surface.

This is a consumer problem, consumers are demanding film thickness way beyond what the products are designed for. Thin clears, when chipped, won't leave a deep void. Plus a thin clear is also more likely to move without cracking. all assuming the mix ratio was correct in the first place.

#119 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

What substantiation do you have for this? I'm not familiar with this sentiment, but I've only been really paying attention to this kind of thing for a few years (when I had chipping on my WOZ). All my other games are much older and obviously have different kinds of playfield finishes.

Games used to have just clear varnish, they lasted a few years. Then they made diamond plate, playields lasted much longer. Look at an 90s pin, preferably CV or afm, those ghosted pretty bad. Find one that the ghosted clear actually chipped. You'll see the film of clear is very thin, but it protected the games really well with standard maintenance. Those games will have 100000 plays with often almost no at loss unless there is a vuk with a strong eject, (wh2o, RS), or at the pop bumpers when the ball is driven down into the field. Those games were also never mirror finish clears. When people started doing clear on their own for restorations they started putting on super thick clear layers and polishing the snot out of them. This magnifies any imperfections. Peele started demanding these overdone clears on their Stern LEs, JJP went nuts on WOZ, etc. Think clear looks good, thick paint, which is what clear is, does not perform well. Paint manufactures actually have she's for film thickness. Just search this sure in restoration threads, you'll see people bragging they put down 10 thick we coats! This isn't how the materials were made to be applied.

#122 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Do you have substantiation as to how the community demanded this? I'm wondering what the community did to sway a manufacturer to make changes in their product to this extent. I don't see anyone advertising their playfield as "better" or with "more clear" which would seem befitting an additional cost they surely incurred.

See the part where I said search these forums, there's your proof. Stern literally said they were putting on extra clear on their LEs for a while. Playfield restorers have talked talked about their processes. The best ones don't do super thick layers, they know better. Companies did this because they could charge more for something that didn't cost them that much to do, and that people were clamoring for. They saw people paying 800 for apf then sending it too get 500v in clear work done. They aren't stupid, they will try to give you what you want even if it kills you.

#126 4 years ago

This is from 6 months ago-12 freaking coats! But this has been discussed literally for at least 5 years probably 8.
I spray in one session, 12 coats become 1 thick coat annealed together that will generally cure and pass the fingernail test in about 2-3 days. It will completely harden within 2 weeks once the remainder of the thinners that keep the clear coat wet finally evaporate. In my experience when you block sand between coats with any clear coat if you examine it in the brightest of led lights you'll see each block sanding session's scratches in layers, so you want to keep that at a minimum because that dampers the clarity for me at least. I will do two block sanding sessions with this stuff, prep sanding and a final block sanding. If I'm spraying on a bare pf sometimes I'll shoot a diamond plate like clear coat on it first (2-3 coats) and let that sit overnight then prep sand it before I really start adding multiple coats, mainly just for the inserts to bond well to the clear. If you don't block sand between dried coats that just seems like a poor way to add multiple coats of clear just to achieve depth without giving any integrity (tooth) to make all those coats become one strong layer. Which is the point of spraying a clear coat in the first place to protect the artwork from wear and encapsulate the playfield. Everybody is working with different materials that have very different cure times and very different procedures they have perfected so there's really no comparing any of us.

#133 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Btw, I should note on the "thick clear" that I sprayed my JP playfield with SprayMax 2X Auto Clear. I put on a few thin coats and several thick coats. Barely time for it to cure inbetween (maybe hours). It cured hard as a rock in a few hours and I sanded and polished it a few days later. The clear was thick enough to fill in depressions where I had to replace decals and they were sunken in a bit. I obviously don't know the actual thickness compared to Mirco (or other) playfield clear but certainly it can be done.

Just because you can does not mean you should. Hard as a rock is worse than soft. Soft will move with the wood. Soft will show dimples but it does not crack. Hard will delaminate when the wood moves. Hard will crack when things are to tight. Hard will chop edges when balls hit them. Hard is fine on a stable substrate. Wood isn't stable.

#134 4 years ago

This is directly cut from the spraymax site.
Application notes
Spray pass
1 - 2 spray passes each 30 µm

Human hair average about 50um in diameter.

#136 4 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I bought a clear coated play field. It arrived looking very nice and I put back in the ship box for storage.
3 months later when I removed it from the box I discovered that the the clear had settled at a different rate over the inserts and I could close my eyes and run my hands across the play field and feel the depression over every insert. But I wanted baby butt smooth so I did a light block sand and polish to get smooth but i did not like the look.
I swung a paint gun for several years painting small aircraft parts. But my work was mainly for parts protection and not beauty type work.
The only way to get the finish I wanted was to go buy a paint gun and equipment and go back into the painting biz.
I put all my coats of clear on in one session starting with a dry starter coat that I let flash for about 15 minutes. And then I went wet.
Dry to the touch did not time much time. I let the play field cure for about 2 weeks, block sanded and buffed. That play field sparkled in the sun. The play field was cured and dry and I started installing parts. But a few weeks after I had the play field built up I noticed that my clear was settling at the inserts just like it had been the first time.
I had to strip all of the parts. At this time I noticed when I removed the rails that the clear had become distorted under the rails; in essence, while my clear felt dry to touch and had several weeks to cure it was not really cured at all.
I did another block sand and buff and put it all back together. Several weeks later my problem with “sunken” inserts bit me again. So, one more time, I had to strip, block and polish.
So, my experience with my automotive clear that body shops use for fast work for next day delivery needed a lot of time—8 months maybe—to cure.
For my 2nd play field, I only put on 4 coats in one sitting. That was last summer. And this play field is still in storage before I go further with block and polish.
I am in the camp that unless you can oven bake a clear coat then it is going to take a long time to fully cure because trying to oven bake a play field would be equal to committing suicide.
And my 3rd play field will be something like 3 coats of clear maximum. Because I have discovered that a play field does not need to be baby butt smooth to provide a great playing surface; And that once the play field is under glass and the lights are flashing it is going to be a very nice looking play field with great play action.

Just a note, I didn't shoot 12 coats, that's cut from someone in this site that I found on a quick search

#149 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I mean, I have no control over the cure of that product. It's an all in one, two part in a can. It cures however it cures. I mean shit.. not hard, not soft.. is this the 3 pinball bears?
I also have no idea how thick the layers are. I have nothing to measure that miniscule of an amount and "thick" is my perception, who knows what it actually is. I do know that thin coats produced a somewhat "orange peel" effect and thicker ones did not.

Orange peel is common that's why you block sand. Different clear formulas will have different hardnesses. You need to use a correct product, correctly. 2k can work on a playfield, badly applied 2k, or any finish, is not good. If you wanted to do it right you could have gotten a paint thickness guge and shot tests to determine what was correct. That's how pros learn.
You're field may be perfectly fine, I'm not looking at it. But I'm only going on your statement of thick coats, that's not good generally.

#163 4 years ago
Quoted from meSz:

dang that is thick! It looks almost as thick as one of the plys!

That's freaking ridiculous.

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