(Topic ID: 246630)

Have you had any issues with Mirco playfield quality?


By harryhoudini

5 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 205 posts
  • 53 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 39 days ago by Grizlyrig
  • Topic is favorited by 20 Pinsiders

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“Do you have Mirco playfields with issues? ”

  • JJP Mirco Playfield With Issues (Chipping, Cracking, Bunching of Clear) 27 votes
    55%
  • Direct Mirco Playfield With Issues (Chipping, Cracking, Bunching of Clear) 22 votes
    45%

(49 votes)

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There are 205 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 5.
#151 5 months ago
Quoted from gliebig:

Out of the most recent games I've purchase...MMr, IMDN, TNA, JJP POTC, DP, DI, TWD.....
MMr has the best clear job. It still looks brand new after ~two years. Wonder what CGC did differently?

I agree, I have the MMr and MBr. Nice playfields on both.

#152 5 months ago
Quoted from gliebig:

Out of the most recent games I've purchase...MMr, IMDN, TNA, JJP POTC, DP, DI, TWD.....
MMr has the best clear job. It still looks brand new after ~two years. Wonder what CGC did differently?

Who makes the playfield?

#153 5 months ago

I have a FH with an IPB repro field that was installed back in 2010 still looks perfect.

#154 5 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Who makes the playfield?

CGC. But they also make Stern playfields so...

#155 5 months ago
Quoted from kermit24:

CGC. But they also make Stern playfields so...

?

I thought Stern playfields had a pretty decent reputation based on the number of titles and games they've made and the issues they've had? Aren't they the ones who've sent out populated playfields as well?

#156 5 months ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

?
Aren't they the ones who've sent out populated playfields as well?

Do you think they're sending out populated PFs because there was no issue with the originals ones?

#157 5 months ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Do you think they're sending out populated PFs because there was no issue with the originals ones?

Heh, sorry, maybe I was mixing up my thoughts.

OK, so my one thought was it seems like they don't have the percentage of issues that JJP has with their playfields. Granted JJP only has 5 games and so with the issues they have had a high percentage of their games (either title based or production numbers sold) had playfield issues. It seems like Stern sells way more games and, while they have had issues, it appears as though those issues are a much lower percentage of titles and games sold. And in the instances where they have had issues they have generally made them right?

I'm wondering if that is correct? I don't know the issues Sterns have had, the Ghostbusters problems, etc.

#158 5 months ago
Quoted from kermit24:

CGC. But they also make Stern playfields so...

I don't think CGC makes Stern playfields now. I think Stern started making their own playfields starting w/ Ghostbusters.

#159 5 months ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

I don't think CGC makes Stern playfields now. I think Stern started making their own playfields starting w/ Ghostbusters.

The fact that the pin companies actually make it hard to know who makes their PF’s is a red flag. I don’t know who makes what for who and that’s how the pin companies want it. Why? If high quality PF’s were actually being made there would be no need for all this silence and slight of hand on the subject. Things are being hidden for a reason. Bad PF’s.

#160 5 months ago

Here you can see how thick the clear is...

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#161 5 months ago

I put a starpost on my playfield and snugged it down...not extra tight, but what I felt was sufficient torque.

No visible donuts or displacement with post in place...
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Then removed post...it left a mark but no depression, ridge or ripple
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This post was only in place for 4-5 days, im curios to see how it holds up over time...I will post again in the future if conditions change

#162 5 months ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Here you can see how thick the clear is...[quoted image]

dang that is thick! It looks almost as thick as one of the plys!

#163 5 months ago
Quoted from meSz:

dang that is thick! It looks almost as thick as one of the plys!

That's freaking ridiculous.

#164 5 months ago
Quoted from Marvin:

That's freaking ridiculous.

Almost looks like Glaze Coat!

#165 5 months ago

To bring the two worlds together, these posts were on the same day... clear thickness here and in the JJP specific thread:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-who-has-playfield-dimples-cracking-wear-around-star-posts-/page/28#post-5085712

#166 5 months ago

One indictment on Mirco for me is the fact that I've shopped out a couple early 2000 era Stern machines with over 60k plays on them, and there was no chipping whatsoever, and the playfields cleaned up like new. I'm not counting scoop holes, because that's another animal. The shooter lanes were dirty, but that was it. TSPP, RT and RBION all had very durable playfields in them. The clear does not seem to be nearly as thick on them as well. So what changed? My GOTG has 13k on it, and still looks great as well.

#167 5 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

So what changed?

The 24 billion dollar question. Lots of speculation and informed opinions but no one can tell us but Mirco and JJP.

#168 5 months ago

I have a Hobbit and have had no issues to date. I will say that I installed Cliffy's day 1 but still no issues. With that said this still has me concerned as JJP is scheduled to make Toy Story and rumored to do Harry Potter, both of these are machines I would look at buying. However, if JJP doesn't come up with a solution to this issue and addresses it I am out as a buyer. I just can't foresee paying for a machine that is going to have issues and there resolution is to sell me a new one at a discounted price!

As for Mirco, amazing how he's quick to jump on threads and correct people as well as keep posting on his other threads selling things but has yet to address this at all. Just gives me the impression that this guy doesn't take ownership of his lack of quality. I inquired about having a playfield made for a vintage game I have and I was looking to purchase a Black Hole playfield from him but I am out.

I am going back to my post about nothing now .....

#169 5 months ago
Quoted from meSz:

I have a Hobbit and have had no issues to date. I will say that I installed Cliffy's day 1 but still no issues. With that said this still has me concerned as JJP is scheduled to make Toy Story and rumored to do Harry Potter, both of these are machines I would look at buying. However, if JJP doesn't come up with a solution to this issue and addresses it I am out as a buyer. I just can't foresee paying for a machine that is going to have issues and there resolution is to sell me a new one at a discounted price!
As for Mirco, amazing how he's quick to jump on threads and correct people as well as keep posting on his other threads selling things but has yet to address this at all. Just gives me the impression that this guy doesn't take ownership of his lack of quality. I inquired about having a playfield made for a vintage game I have and I was looking to purchase a Black Hole playfield from him but I am out.
I am going back to my post about nothing now .....

Pinside is his main customer I would imagine. Lots of damage to deal with here. Like I was going to buy a fun house pf from him, not until he gets his shit together now.

1 week later
#171 4 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I bought a clear coated play field. It arrived looking very nice and I put back in the ship box for storage.
3 months later when I removed it from the box I discovered that the the clear had settled at a different rate over the inserts and I could close my eyes and run my hands across the play field and feel the depression over every insert. But I wanted baby butt smooth so I did a light block sand and polish to get smooth but i did not like the look.

So, I have to ask. Does the minor depression at the inserts matter, other than knowing that it's there? Will it cause issues? I have this scenario on my new whirlwind PF. I'm wondering if i should just try to sand it as well and then measure the depth of the insert depression to see if it's worth hitting the inserts with more clear.

#172 4 months ago
Quoted from yaksplat:

So, I have to ask. Does the minor depression at the inserts matter, other than knowing that it's there? Will it cause issues? I have this scenario on my new whirlwind PF. I'm wondering if i should just try to sand it as well and then measure the depth of the insert depression to see if it's worth hitting the inserts with more clear.

On the old play fields, without clear protection, you see all of these flameouts at inserts that were not level with the play field.

For playability, I don't think a minor depression at the insert matters when everything is coated in clear. As far as knowing it is there, with my play field I could not see the depressions at the inserts. I could only feel them and that was a "barely feel them". With the play field mounted, under glass, and with all of the flashing lights you will see nothing.

Knowing what I know now (at least to my satisfaction) I would have installed my play field and saved the expense of block sanding and shooting more clear.

If you want to test your play field, maybe you could lay it on the coffee table and roll some balls across and see if they are rolling straight and true.

1 week later
#173 4 months ago

I have no issue with anyone who could and DID
reproduce this playfield.
Thank you Mirco.
Beautiful job.
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#174 4 months ago

Just finished an Addams Family playfield swap two weeks ago using a ceramic coated Mirco Gold Glitter version. Playfield purchase occurred at the Texas Pinball Festival 2019. Playfield sat laying flat on a ping pong table for a month before beginning the playfield swap process just to let it "breathe". I have not seen any abnormal noticeable imperfections since the install. All topside holes/dimples were drilled to clean the clearcoat from the holes prior to parts assembly onto the field. All bottom side dimples were also drilled before parts install. I did notice that where I had the playfield clamped on the rotisserie, the soft poly bushing of the C-clamp had imprinted into the clear surface slightly as well as the micro mesh towel pattern used to protect the playfield from direct contact of the metal channel of the rotisserie. Obviously, the clear was still "soft" at this point, but no problems. Cliffy protectors installed within one week after switch testing and 20+ test plays on the field surface before cabinet install. I will keep my fingers crossed after reading some of the above posts. Ball dimpling is evident after 100+ plays on the playfield in the last two weeks of it being installed in the cabinet. Other than that, I likes it a lot. Note: Playfield is now roughly 5-6 months old before the first ball rolled across it, if this helps anyone for a timeline.

#175 4 months ago

Sorry, playfield is roughly 3-4 months old, not 5-6 month old, the pinball restoration took approx. 5-6 months total, my bad.

#176 4 months ago

My CPR TAF playfield is still outgassing, as is my Mirco HH. Mirco is going to replace the Spirit playfield I ordered from him after I detected issues with the playfield after receiving it.

I will post photos of it eventually.

Greg

2 months later
#178 62 days ago

The update to this thread should be "yes"... heh. Many things have come to light since I started this and there is definitely a quality issue.

1 week later
#179 55 days ago

My issues with Mirco are 30% quality based and 70% customer service. The nonchalant manner in which I was told they would offer no assistance made me absolutely furious. I will never deal with them again.

#180 54 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Many things have come to light

Where can we go to read any statements from Mirco on what he's figured out and solved with all the playfield issues?

There are several threads on Mirco right now, and I'm wondering where to go to read his statements so we can have enough facts on hand to buy with confidence.

thanks!
-mof

#181 54 days ago
Quoted from mof:

Where can we go to read any statements from Mirco on what he's figured out and solved with all the playfield issues?
There are several threads on Mirco right now, and I'm wondering where to go to read his statements so we can have enough facts on hand to buy with confidence.
thanks!
-mof

Good luck with that.

Between JJP and Mirco no one says anything. Definitely an oddity of the pinball community, at least to me in my experience with many industries in my life. Companies are allowed to get away with this kind of stuff because the market is small, there aren't a lot of producers, licenses are tightly held and there are definitely a lot of "back channel" operations going on. Jack told me on the phone he didn't consider this a Mirco problem (he now denies that), I can't see how it isn't. Mirco won't reply at all to any of these issues... ever. He's been contacted many ways, given a multitude of opportunities to make any sort of statement and nothing has come to light that I know of. Until people speak with their wallets or some other major demonstration of frustration there will be no change in how these companies operate. Everything is shrouded in a cloud of mystery.

#182 54 days ago
Quoted from mof:

Where can we go to read any statements from Mirco on what he's figured out and solved with all the playfield issues?
There are several threads on Mirco right now, and I'm wondering where to go to read his statements so we can have enough facts on hand to buy with confidence.
thanks!
-mof

Mirco will happily take your money, but they're nowhere to be seen when you have a problem.

#183 50 days ago

Buy with a CC and if he sends you a turd reverse the charges. That doesn't help if something happens in the future however.

#184 50 days ago
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:

Mirco will happily take your money, but they're nowhere to be seen when you have a problem.

You bought a Quicksilver play field from Mirco. Correct?

What kind of problems are you having with it, please?

I need to buy a QS play field but you are scaring me. Mirco is the only game in town. Do I need to be scared?

#185 50 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

You bought a Quicksilver play field from Mirco. Correct?
What kind of problems are you having with it, please?
I need to buy a QS play field but you are scaring me. Mirco is the only game in town. Do I need to be scared?

You should be VERY wary of any product that comes out of that business. Use a major credit card to purchase so you're protected. Four things you need to do IMMEDIATELY upon receiving it:
1.) Install a couple posts in different areas. This will help you quickly determine if you got an infamous crap clear coat or not.
2.) Verify the holes are drilled correctly and straight. The FH pf I got had the right half of the playfield holes drilled 1/8" off AND the rail holes were drilled crooked AF.
3.) Once everything else if verified give it a couple months. I've seen cloudy insert issues happen as well as the clear around inserts sink.
4.) And lastly, YOU MUST use cliffy protectors on any holes or the clear WILL chip and likely the graphics underneath will pull up with the clear.

Personally, I HIGHLY recommend you have it shipped directly to Ron Kruzman and let him clear coat it. The quality difference between mircos and what Ron does is night and day. Hell, email Mirco and ask him if you can buy a playfield without clear coat. You'll be money ahead.

#186 50 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

You bought a Quicksilver play field from Mirco. Correct?
What kind of problems are you having with it, please?
I need to buy a QS play field but you are scaring me. Mirco is the only game in town. Do I need to be scared?

Also, be ready to countersink a bunch of holes that should already be taken care of.

#187 50 days ago
Quoted from yaksplat:

Also, be ready to countersink a bunch of holes that should already be taken care of.

In all fairness, I have done both Cpr and micro swaps and the Cpr ones I did far more drilling than the Mirco.

#188 50 days ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

In all fairness, I have done both Cpr and micro swaps and the Cpr ones I did far more drilling than the Mirco.

I had to drill 95% of the holes on mine. They were all off.

#189 50 days ago
Quoted from yaksplat:

I had to drill 95% of the holes on mine. They were all off.

That sucks. Sorry to hear that. My BSD was fine.
I have not done my Barracora yet so my tune could always change

1 week later
#190 43 days ago

Here's my Mirco experience I shared with the Quicksilver group

I'd like to share my Mirco experience with the Quicksilver group and what my repro playfield is like now that I FINALLY received it the 2nd week of August. In October of last year I sent my restored playfield that Devin (sohchx,) had touched up and cleared along with my plastic set to Mirco so he could make the repros possible. I was told that he should print mid Feb of this year and I should expect my stuff back mid to end of April of this year and that he might need the playfield a little longer for reference. When I saw that the playfields were put up for sale I kept emailing asking for updates and when I can expect the playfields back because I wanted to repopulate and sell this game. A number of excuses like various colds and vacations and workers not being there were given over the summer while I had the distinct pleasure of watching other pinsiders receive their playfields! Even though I was being jerked around I kept sending pleasant emails and kept getting curt non aplogetic responses. When I had enough in July and sent an email demanding my playfield and plastics back he finally sent me a repro 2nd week of Aug. but without the plastic set. I emailed asking why I hadn't received the plastics I was told that he didn't have the time to deal with my small project he has more important work to deal with. I then got the run around again until Sept when I was told he still didn't get to it and that I should be happy with the playfield I received and that the deal was he keeps the donor playfield for reference. Then in the next sentence he wrote but of course if you want it back you can have it I just need it for reference. I again explained I had people interest in buying the Quicksilver since May and need the plastics back. Well a month went by again and I reached out and reminded him I haven't complained publicly this whole time. That every time he told me he needed my playfield for reference I told him I"d be willing to accept another repro in it's place if he wanted to keep the original and I NEED my plastics to finish this restore. Silence

I'm tired of asking politely for my playfield and plastics back while being strung along with excuses or just outright ignored. In 3 days it will be a year since I shipped them though I was told I'd have them back within 6 months. It's not the 6 months difference it was the way in which I was treated during the whole process. He couldn't be bothered to even scan some plastics over the span of a year?! Just wanted to share my frustrating year long experience with Mirco and warn others what to expect if you are kind enough to depopulate and send off your property to Mirco to share with the community. Since I wasn't a paying customer he couldn't be bothered. I haven't heard from him since September 11th!

When I received the playfield Aug.15th I did the fingernail test under the apron and easily made an indent in the clear. I emailed Mirco and asked him how long I should wait to populate the playfield since I read all of the issues that were popping up on Pinside with the puddling. Every time I reached out to him with this question it was ignored. I explained to him that I would hand tighten everything down just snug enough to have the starpost not turn. Crickets. I let a month go by while I populated the underside of the playfield and the clear slowly hardened. When I finished populating the top I added yellow silicon band which are slightly tighter than conventional rubber rings. At 2 spots on the playfield there are 1 inch rings between 2 starposts. I noticed in the next week or 2 there was crescent puddling starting inbetween the starposts in the 1" rings. I removed them in horror and undid the starposts. It flattened out in a day and I bought 1 1/4" rings for those 2 spots and didn't put those on until last week. Over the 2 months the playfield has cured some more and its harder to make an indent with your nail. The area around the starposts all look great and I'm hoping in another few moths it will cure further. Mirco may not have any bedside manner but the playfield looks awesome!
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#191 41 days ago

Checked my playfield today, I've had it 5 months, the inserts have settled in a bit and the clear is still a little soft. I could still make marks with my fingernails.

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#192 40 days ago

I can still leave a nail mark after 7 months. It's harder, but not where it should be.

#193 40 days ago
Quoted from yaksplat:

I can still leave a nail mark after 7 months. It's harder, but not where it should be.

I was not paying attention to the hardness time check with the clear I put on my play field, but I would say it took at least 12 months to get hard. I am still working on assembling this play field. It is now two years since I did the clear and it is as hard as a rock.

I have been using PPG Deltron clear which is designed for fast cure for auto body shops to get a fender bender job in the shop one day and out the door on Day 2. But body shops are only going to apply a couple of coats of clear.

I applied several coats of clear to my play field. Logic suggests that more coats will take longer to cure. As I said in another post, I placed my first play field in the sun to cure. That play field got almost too hot to touch and it cured out in a short amount of time but I could feel the inserts shift with the heat; That scared me so play field #2 just had to cure the slow way.

SIDEBAR: I know from personal experience that you cannot bake fiberglass in a radiant heat oven ( I turned 3 aircraft wing trim tabs into footballs by doing this). I also know fiberglass does not do well in a forced air oven as an aircraft nose cone I tried to bake started delaminating and showing air bubbles under the skin surface.

Obviously, I cannot make a determination with commercial play fields clearing processes, but I'm thinking a combination of many coats of clear in an effort to make a play field look like it is under a thick shiny piece of glass and (perhaps) no viable means to bake a play field for a fast cure is contributing to these play field problems we are reading about and experiencing.

My conclusion: These play fields need to be baked for a fast cure, but since it is probably not wise to bake wood and plastic then they are just going to need to sit for quite a while to cure.

Mitch, can you take an industrial heat gun to a small corner of your QS apron and heat it up and see what you come up with ? I'm thinking if you use some heat it will cure completely in the area you applied the heat to.

#194 40 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

it took at least 12 months to get hard

Might want to talk to a doctor about this lol

Quoted from cottonm4:

Mitch, can you take an industrial heat gun to a small corner of your QS apron and heat it up and see what you come up with ? I'm thinking if you use some heat it will cure completely in the area you applied the heat to.

I can do this.

#195 40 days ago

The problem with heating is the differing thermal expansion between the wood and plastic. They're going to expand differently as you noticed and that's going to force movement in the inserts. The best thing to do is wait... a long while.

#196 40 days ago

Would putting them in front of a fan help at all?

#197 40 days ago

I have not had any issues with Mirco playfield quality. One of the perks of never having bought one I guess.

#198 40 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

I have not had any issues with Mirco playfield quality. One of the perks of never having bought one I guess.

Well...that brought nothing to the conversation
-Mike

#199 40 days ago
Quoted from Grizlyrig:

Well...that brought nothing to the conversation
-Mike

Read the title of the thread and tell me if I didn't answer the question.

#200 40 days ago

Lol, I suppose.
-Mike

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