They had a really big problem with the Ghostbusters playfields and i think there were also some problems with GOT and KISS maybe. There will be some problems with every title made but what matters to me is that they stand behind their product and make my game like a new game should be.

This!!.. We've all seen populated play fields sent by Stern to replace defective ones. Not easy or pleasant, but happens.
Has JJP sent a single populated of replacement for this game? I haven't seen it, but maybe so.

Stern =accepted bashing on all fronts in the threads

JJP=accepting the games as they are " best ever", and scorn forever the one that says otherwise.

Time and time again. Show me a replacement, populated pf for one of these POTC owners and my broken record stops...

Don't forget about the Dialed In playfields also.

12,500 dollar JJP chipping playfield. Talk about more expensive is better.

I don’t think I’ll ever buy a JJP unless they take care of the issues. I work too hard to drop 8k and then be bummed about it falling apart and losing value.

But they don’t do anything about it

Has JJP sent a single populated of replacement for this game? I haven't seen it

When I told Jack about my game he said:”what do you want me to do about it? It’s a pinball machine”. I told home he should at least give me a PF to replace the one that chipped. I had to ask him 2 or 3 times and he finally said he would send one and he sent me a reject with very dished inserts and a low spot in the center of the pf that you could visibly see. I sold it for 50 bucks and bought another one that was good

Asked the same question....uggh, what a bad story. I mean really.....wtf??? Very disheartening...

Yes i know, that's what i am saying. They should send people new populated playfields if they got a bad playfield. There is no way that i will buy a new pinball machine from a company that isn't going to stand behind their games, screw that.

Before I say this I will make it clear that I cannot afford to buy new game from Stern JJP or anyone but I am glad that nothing that has come out in a while has interested me enough to want to spend that kind of money. With the shit node boards, the cabs falling apart, the chipping PFs and all the other problems I would be livid if I paid that kind of cash and had those problems with it.

wait until Wonka starts chipping after the first Kid Multiball.

screw holes are a simple fix

This is a consumer problem, consumers are demanding film thickness way beyond what the products are designed for. Thin clears, when chipped, won't leave a deep void. Plus a thin clear is also more likely to move without cracking. all assuming the mix ratio was correct in the first place.

Games used to have just clear varnish, they lasted a few years. Then they made diamond plate, playields lasted much longer. Look at an 90s pin, preferably CV or afm, those ghosted pretty bad. Find one that the ghosted clear actually chipped. You'll see the film of clear is very thin, but it protected the games really well with standard maintenance. Those games will have 100000 plays with often almost no at loss unless there is a vuk with a strong eject, (wh2o, RS), or at the pop bumpers when the ball is driven down into the field. Those games were also never mirror finish clears. When people started doing clear on their own for restorations they started putting on super thick clear layers and polishing the snot out of them. This magnifies any imperfections. Peele started demanding these overdone clears on their Stern LEs, JJP went nuts on WOZ, etc. Think clear looks good, thick paint, which is what clear is, does not perform well. Paint manufactures actually have she's for film thickness. Just search this sure in restoration threads, you'll see people bragging they put down 10 thick we coats! This isn't how the materials were made to be applied.

This makes a lot of sense.

See the part where I said search these forums, there's your proof. Stern literally said they were putting on extra clear on their LEs for a while. Playfield restorers have talked talked about their processes. The best ones don't do super thick layers, they know better. Companies did this because they could charge more for something that didn't cost them that much to do, and that people were clamoring for. They saw people paying 800 for apf then sending it too get 500v in clear work done. They aren't stupid, they will try to give you what you want even if it kills you.

Marvin is correct. Somewhere between 2015 and 2016, playfield manufacturers were instructed to put on an extra coat of clear. Direct from a playfield manufacturer that has made playfields since the early 1950s. The playfield manufacturer also advised against this.

Why would a playfield manufacturer advertise that they have put on extra coats of clear knowing that it would create all these extra issues? The playfield manufacturers are supplying what they are asked to supply. This makes the pinball machine manufacturer responsible for the playfield quality issues.

I would prefer if the playfield manufacturers went back to thin coats of clear. Newbies keep asking for shinny shit so I do not think this will happen. The reality is most people do not give a shit about a few chips and blemishes in their playfields.

Agreed and if you look at the Pre-Pinside forum on RGP super thick clear coat was the wow cool thing to do which proved not so great unless it was a bar table. HSA and Bill Davis set the standard (in my opinion) for clear coat back in the day but that scale takes Time! And Bill took Time lol.

This is from 6 months ago-12 freaking coats! But this has been discussed literally for at least 5 years probably 8.
I spray in one session, 12 coats become 1 thick coat annealed together that will generally cure and pass the fingernail test in about 2-3 days. It will completely harden within 2 weeks once the remainder of the thinners that keep the clear coat wet finally evaporate. In my experience when you block sand between coats with any clear coat if you examine it in the brightest of led lights you'll see each block sanding session's scratches in layers, so you want to keep that at a minimum because that dampers the clarity for me at least. I will do two block sanding sessions with this stuff, prep sanding and a final block sanding. If I'm spraying on a bare pf sometimes I'll shoot a diamond plate like clear coat on it first (2-3 coats) and let that sit overnight then prep sand it before I really start adding multiple coats, mainly just for the inserts to bond well to the clear. If you don't block sand between dried coats that just seems like a poor way to add multiple coats of clear just to achieve depth without giving any integrity (tooth) to make all those coats become one strong layer. Which is the point of spraying a clear coat in the first place to protect the artwork from wear and encapsulate the playfield. Everybody is working with different materials that have very different cure times and very different procedures they have perfected so there's really no comparing any of us.

You need to go back to Rec Games Pinball RGP you’ll find plenty. Those threads go back to when LTG was born! Lol

To answer the OPs original question - No, have not had any issues. I have had more issues with Stern and CPR. I have sent Gold CPR playfields back ( and I know a few others who have too ). I will still buy from CPR though. Bottom line, this process is not fool proof. There are many variables coming into play. I don’t mind minor issues.

You will find plenty of playfield issues around early 2016 from JJP and Stern. It is not that long ago!

I have an issue with my Spirit main playfield, but Mirco has graciously consented to ship me another one.

Just because you can does not mean you should. Hard as a rock is worse than soft. Soft will move with the wood. Soft will show dimples but it does not crack. Hard will delaminate when the wood moves. Hard will crack when things are to tight. Hard will chop edges when balls hit them. Hard is fine on a stable substrate. Wood isn't stable.

This is directly cut from the spraymax site.
Application notes
Spray pass
1 - 2 spray passes each 30 µm

Human hair average about 50um in diameter.

I bought a clear coated play field. It arrived looking very nice and I put back in the ship box for storage.

3 months later when I removed it from the box I discovered that the the clear had settled at a different rate over the inserts and I could close my eyes and run my hands across the play field and feel the depression over every insert. But I wanted baby butt smooth so I did a light block sand and polish to get smooth but i did not like the look.

I swung a paint gun for several years painting small aircraft parts. But my work was mainly for parts protection and not beauty type work.

The only way to get the finish I wanted was to go buy a paint gun and equipment and go back into the painting biz.

I put all my coats of clear on in one session starting with a dry starter coat that I let flash for about 15 minutes. And then I went wet.

Dry to the touch did not take much time. I let the play field cure for about 2 weeks, block sanded and buffed. That play field sparkled in the sun. The play field was cured and dry and I started installing parts. But a few weeks after I had the play field built up I noticed that my clear was settling at the inserts just like it had been the first time.

I had to strip all of the parts. At this time I noticed when I removed the rails that the clear had become distorted under the rails; in essence, while my clear felt dry to touch and had several weeks to cure it was not really cured at all.

I did another block sand and buff and put it all back together. Several weeks later my problem with “sunken” inserts bit me again. So, one more time, I had to strip, block and polish.

So, my experience with my automotive clear that body shops use for fast work for next day delivery needed a lot of time—8 months maybe—to cure.

For my 2nd play field, I only put on 4 coats in one sitting. That was last summer. And this play field is still in storage before I go further with block and polish.

I am in the camp that unless you can oven bake a clear coat then it is going to take a long time to fully cure because trying to oven bake a play field would be equal to committing suicide.

And my 3rd play field will be something like 3 coats of clear maximum. Because I have discovered that a play field does not need to be baby butt smooth to provide a great playing surface; And that once the play field is under glass and the lights are flashing it is going to be a very nice looking play field with great play action.

Just a note, I didn't shoot 12 coats, that's cut from someone in this site that I found on a quick search

Is the clear coat issue showing up on wonka too?

There are tools available that allow you to measure the thickness of your coats. But for the guy doing a play field or two, they might not be cost effective.

Painting is something you develop a feel for. When you are shooting a vertical surface and trying to get that wet shiny coat and you make one more pass with your gun and then watch in disgust and horror as your paint starts to sag and slide down to the bottom, you learn just how far you can go.

Orange peel can happen to the best of automotive painters. Indeed, I was in a Cadillac dealership several years ago on a parts chasing trip. I was gazing at the Caddy 2 seater that was selling for around $60K plus. And on the front bumper cover, on the horizontal surface was orange peel. It had been sanded and buffed but not enough.

With enough "dry" coats you can sand and polish and make the orange peel disappear and get a nice finish, but it is a lot of extra work. And if you are not careful you can sand through the paint into the primer; It will make you cry.

I imagine most people are like me and paint a play field laying on a horizontal surface. With horizontal painting, you don't have to worry about runs, sags, or curtains. With the correct viscosity, painting heavy wet coats will flow into a nice smooth surface. But since you are painting on the horizontal with heavier wet coats and no risk of runs it can be real easy to wind up with too much paint.

Those here who paint a lot can tell you what you need to be doing and maybe even tell you what you are doing wrong. And you can read all kinds of books on how to spray paint. Not too much. not too little, etc. And there are some proper spaying techniques you need to learn, you must learn. When you read up and understand that swinging a gun depends on flexible action with your wrist, no stiff arming allowed, when you learn that to get even, well distributed, coats of paint depends on flexible wrist action that would make any jazz drummer proud, you are 80% there.

Read. Listen. Watch YouTube. But in the end, you have to figure it out for yourself.

To get the last 20%, hang some surfaces on the vertical needing paint; go buy a case of cheap foo foo can paint and start painting. Try to get that nice shiny coat with no runs. Push it. Try to make it run. Make it run. See where your limits are. Once you can do that and understand how it can all fall apart in one second you will be on your way to laying down some good paint.

At least on some:

slingpost1 (resized).jpg

Maybe the industry needs to refigure where to go with this.
I do understand that you need some kind of sprayable finish to get that lustre and deep color for your car.
It does need to be sprayable, due to the roundness and such of a car.

But come on, we are talking about a flat surface at aprox 8sqf.

Why not a 3mm scratchfree uv-resistant lexan sheet and its a done deal, and if you dont like the way the ball is rolling or lack of spinning, just wax it.

Lexan isn't going to hold up or play the same. It also will grow and shrink, which will cause ripples in the PF once you affix playfield components through it. You could free float it like a playfield protector, but many people in this hobby do not like they way they play.

I recently received a new playfield from Mirco, and while plenty of things are great about it, there’s a few issues which concern me.

Under a very brief inspection today, a couple of clearcoat imperfections where plain to see, with also what looked to be fingernail scratching in the same area. To me it clearly looked like QC at Mirco spotted the issue, gave it a quick finger scratch to see if it could be resolved, realised it couldn’t and then quietly approved it. I saw a number of these “QC scratch marks”. Again, this was only a very brief inspection.

Also, after giving it a further look, I brushed my fingers over a few sections to check some other imperfections and a simple light brush of my fingers would scratch the clear coat. Lightly scratched albeit still scratched. Unbelievable!! I had a CPR playfield lying around waiting for installation and submitted the same finger brushing and it made no impact.

I have two pins with restored playfields, a CPR Taxi and an early Mirco Funhouse. Both have been great performers, but I’m pretty upset with how this new Mirco presents.

What micro playfield did you just receive?

A Quicksilver

Thanks!

Orange peel is common that's why you block sand. Different clear formulas will have different hardnesses. You need to use a correct product, correctly. 2k can work on a playfield, badly applied 2k, or any finish, is not good. If you wanted to do it right you could have gotten a paint thickness guge and shot tests to determine what was correct. That's how pros learn.
You're field may be perfectly fine, I'm not looking at it. But I'm only going on your statement of thick coats, that's not good generally.

Out of the most recent games I've purchased...MMr, IMDN, TNA, JJP POTC, DP, DI, TWD.....
MMr has the best clear job. It still looks brand new after ~two years. Wonder what CGC did differently?