(Topic ID: 246630)

Have you had any issues with Mirco playfield quality?


By harryhoudini

14 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 169 posts
  • 46 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 days ago by lordloss
  • Topic is favorited by 8 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Do you have Mirco playfields with issues? ”

  • JJP Mirco Playfield With Issues (Chipping, Cracking, Bunching of Clear) 24 votes
    60%
  • Direct Mirco Playfield With Issues (Chipping, Cracking, Bunching of Clear) 16 votes
    40%

(40 votes)

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#1 14 days ago

I debating on posting this thread but I think we as a community deserve to have transparency for these quite expensive products. I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus but it seems like a centralized discussion is warranted to determine if there are wider spread issues or if there are simply isolated incidents.

My involvement here stems from my JJP POTC chipping around the narrow sling posts. These are Mirco produced playfields. When I posted a thread in the JJP forum about this issue there were many people who were in the same boat. The conclusions we have come to in that thread is that the narrow sling posts used had sharp edges on the bottom and this caused cutting in to the clear/art and eventually chipping of those pieces and bare wood exposed. This is combined with the very clear issue of a "soft" clear coat. Around any other posts and washers we have very apparent bunching up of the clear coat with a very real possibility that those areas will chip and crack as well. JJP has taken some responsibility here with a sort of "hidden" offer (JJP does not seem to announce these kinds of things anywhere) of a discounted playfield to those with chipping. They released a "kit" to add wider star posts to the slings with washers under them. The community devised and adopted a preventative measure that TNA owners came up with using a rubber washer under star posts.

Through this I've heard from other Mirco playfield owners that similar things have happened to them. I don't want to call anyone out, everyone can post their own experience and the community can decide.

POTC owners have contacted JJP over and over with many delayed or non-responses and very little acceptance of the issue. Several have also contacted Mirco directly or posted in related threads with no response. Not that Mirco is on the hook for JJP playfield issues, but it's their product in the end and their reputation.

It would be nice to hear both good and bad experiences with your own Mirco playfields, both from a pinball manufacturer installed product to a direct playfield purchase. I've read a lot of threads from a lot of different owners of different manufacturer's games and playfields who have reported issues. It's hard to take anything concrete away from all of these threads as there are many differing opinions as to what causes these issues, who is at fault, what expectations there should be for newer "environmentally friendly" methods of production, etc. I've read that Stern uses three different playfield manufacturers and some of their playfields have issues, maybe the Mirco ones? I know JJP had earlier issues with their Bader WOZ playfields (I had one of those) but their Mirco versions seem to have been much better, so why issues with DI and POTC? Some suggest methods have changed, some suggest Mirco has levels of quality which lead to issues.

Here are a few pictures of my POTC playfield issues and a link to the JJP related thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-who-has-playfield-dimples-cracking-wear-around-star-posts-

The original JJP POTC club thread that started the POTC discussion:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jjp-pirates-of-the-caribbean-official-owners-and-fan-club

Dialed-In owners talk about their playfield chipping, I think those are Mirco too?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dialed-in-owners-and-fans-club

Discussion in JJP making more POTC thread
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/will-jjp-make-more-potc/page/8#post-5066567

AFM Mirco playfield wear discussion
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/afm-mirco-playfields-whats-the-wear-situation-after-a-couple-of-years#post-1899111

Maybe Mirco will chime in and clear the air give some input as to why these things might be happening.

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14
#2 14 days ago

Paging Dr. Freightner.

#3 14 days ago

Yes, a playfield which was represented by initial photos as a first level quality but which when arrived was clearly third rate leftover stock.

The resolution of which was handled quite poorly.

All of my playfield purchases are now made through a retailer who offers a playfield assurance option/semi guarantee rather than someone who simply washes their hands of patently obvious defects as part and parcel of playfield manufacturing.

That way I have some level of recourse.

15
#4 14 days ago

Wheres the option for playfield with no issues?

#5 14 days ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Wheres the option for playfield with no issues?

Why do we need to know that? We know an abundance of playfields have no issue or there would be a lot more posts here.

#6 14 days ago

Or maybe manufactures who put them into assembly before cured??
Maybe?

#7 14 days ago
Quoted from Jjsmooth:

Or maybe manufactures who put them into assembly before cured??
Maybe?

For sure, then Mirco should be able to tell us that, no? How long should they take to cure? I was wondering how long it took to produce a batch (whatever number that is), package them, ship them and for JJP to unbox and use them. Has to be at least several weeks.

13
#8 14 days ago

The Mirco playfields vary from generation to generation an even run to run.
Anytime you are dealing with wood,plastic and coatings as well as chemistry in general it can be a mixed bag.
What I recommend is take each and everything on a case by case basis.
You have chipping down to the wood on a low play game?

There is an adhesion problem between the wood and the initial layers of art.

You have clear chipping off the art but art remains intact?

You have a clear adhesion problem or it is simply wear with the clear being the first line of defense.

That is all it comes down to.
If you see wood or ghosting it is on the ground floor
If it is clear only issues it is typical wear or at the top coat level.
Doesn’t matter who made it that is what you are dealing with.
Just a general guideline to follow.

#9 14 days ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

The Mirco playfields vary from generation to generation an even run to run.
Anytime you are dealing with wood,plastic and coatings as well as chemistry in general it can be a mixed bag.
What I recommend is take each and everything on a case by case basis.
You have chipping down to the wood on a low play game?
There is an adhesion problem between the wood and the initial layers of art.
You have clear chipping off the art but art remains intact?
You have a clear adhesion problem or it is simply wear with the clear being the first line of defense.
That is all it comes down to.
If you see wood or ghosting it is on the ground floor
If it is clear only issues it is typical wear or at the top coat level.
Doesn’t matter who made it that is what you are dealing with.
Just a general guideline to follow.

Thanks for commenting, I was hoping you might show up. Can you share any light on your experience with Mirco and/or other brand playfields in your restorations? Do you see similar issues on new/repro playfields with clear bunching up or chips (with art removed)? Does another coat of clear (and more cure time) help in these situations?

12
#10 14 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Why do we need to know that?.

The thread title reads as a Yes or No question...
I read it and thought there would be some info on good vs bad playfields so I came to contribute. I see that you are just gathering info on damaged fields so I have nothing to offer...moving on

#11 14 days ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

The thread title reads as a yes or no question...

I can see that, but I guess I didn't think it mattered for the discussion.

#12 14 days ago

Was just editing my last post, it clears things up...

#13 14 days ago

I only have experience with Mirco direct pf’s that i have installed. I Didn’t have any issues during install or in the time since - of course thats not to say things cant change, only time will tell. So far so good.

I don’t own any JJP’s or am one of the unfortunate people who had issues with their pf’s. I am not a Mirco fanboy, or any others for that matter. But i think the poll option for the mirco direct will not only reflect the quality of pf - it will reflect the quality of install.

If someone wails on t nuts to drive them in i would not worry about cracks - i would expect them. They will form along inserts or between closely spaced through holes. Same with installing topside screws. You really need to remove the clear away from the threads. Otherwise they can grab and lift or crack clear around the holes. This applies to any repro pf not just Mirco’s.

#14 14 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Thanks for commenting, I was hoping you might show up. Can you share any light on your experience with Mirco and/or other brand playfields in your restorations? Do you see similar issues on new/repro playfields with clear bunching up or chips (with art removed)? Does another coat of clear (and more cure time) help in these situations?

I wouldn’t single anyone out but I will say from CPR,NOS,Mirco ,IPB etc I have a 15 to 20% flat out rejection rate and then of the remaining percentage 50 to 75% require some rework or improving.
There is a small percentage I look at and inspect and see no significant room for improvement and install as delivered but it is very rare.
That said the standards here are very high.

#15 14 days ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

I wouldn’t single anyone out but I will say from CPR,NOS,Mirco ,IPB etc I have a 15 to 20% flat out rejection rate and then of the remaining percentage 50 to 75% require dome rework or improving.
There is a small percentage I look at and inspect and see no significant room for improvement and install as delivered but it is very rare.
That said the standards here are very high.

When someone sends you a pin to restore and part of that restore involves you applying the clear coat, how long to allow the play field to set and cure the clear before you start building it back up ?

#16 14 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

When someone sends you a pin to restore and part of that restore involves you applying the clear coat, how long to allow the play field to set and cure the clear before you start building it back up ?

I like to sand polish and assemble in about two weeks of the final clear application
It will be at this point that the clear is well cured but still flexible enough to withstand the assembly process.
The products I use are designed for an overnight air dry and next day delivery on automobiles so that two week window is already overkill.
The difference in what I am doing and those that make playfields though is I am working on and adding to existing finish but they are actually creating one.
That is a much bigger difference than it may seem.

#17 14 days ago

I would post my PM between me and Mirco when i asked him that very question before i populated the pf. But i dont want to get in shit with the Mods!

Basic response - ‘swing away Merrill’. They use a special clear coat system which allows for immediate installation.

I only asked about the ones he sells direct. No idea if it is a different system for the JJP’s. And if anyone installing is still unsure they should ask Mirco too. I have no affiliation!

#18 14 days ago

Yes, both PF's I purchased directly from them had issues so I stopped buying from them altogether.

How's this for an "issue" that he promptly ignored when I inquired about it after it arrived.... There were many more issues on both PF's but this photo tells the story well enough.

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#19 14 days ago

I always thought it would be cool if we could buy playfields with just the artwork and no clear. Let me do that part myself. Seems doable. Any reason this couldn't work or be a bad way to go?

#20 14 days ago
Quoted from mrofnoc:

I always thought it would be cool if we could buy playfields with just the artwork and no clear. Let me do that part myself. Seems doable. Any reason this couldn't work or be a bad way to go?

while I like the idea, with some people, if the clearcoating does not come out perfect they will still get the blame

#21 14 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I debating on posting this thread but I think we as a community deserve to have transparency for these quite expensive products. I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus but it seems like a centralized discussion is warranted to determine if there are wider spread issues or if there are simply isolated incidents.
My involvement here stems from my JJP POTC chipping around the narrow sling posts. These are Mirco produced playfields. When I posted a thread in the JJP forum about this issue there were many people who were in the same boat. The conclusions we have come to in that thread is that the narrow sling posts used had sharp edges on the bottom and this caused cutting in to the clear/art and eventually chipping of those pieces and bare wood exposed. This is combined with the very clear issue of a "soft" clear coat. Around any other posts and washers we have very apparent bunching up of the clear coat with a very real possibility that those areas will chip and crack as well. JJP has taken some responsibility here with a sort of "hidden" offer (JJP does not seem to announce these kinds of things anywhere) of a discounted playfield to those with chipping. They released a "kit" to add wider star posts to the slings with washers under them. The community devised and adopted a preventative measure that TNA owners came up with using a rubber washer under star posts.
Through this I've heard from other Mirco playfield owners that similar things have happened to them. I don't want to call anyone out, everyone can post their own experience and the community can decide.
POTC owners have contacted JJP over and over with many delayed or non-responses and very little acceptance of the issue. Several have also contacted Mirco directly or posted in related threads with no response. Not that Mirco is on the hook for JJP playfield issues, but it's their product in the end and their reputation.
It would be nice to hear both good and bad experiences with your own Mirco playfields, both from a pinball manufacturer installed product to a direct playfield purchase. I've read a lot of threads from a lot of different owners of different manufacturer's games and playfields who have reported issues. It's hard to take anything concrete away from all of these threads as there are many differing opinions as to what causes these issues, who is at fault, what expectations there should be for newer "environmentally friendly" methods of production, etc. I've read that Stern uses three different playfield manufacturers and some of their playfields have issues, maybe the Mirco ones? I know JJP had earlier issues with their Bader WOZ playfields (I had one of those) but their Mirco versions seem to have been much better, so why issues with DI and POTC? Some suggest methods have changed, some suggest Mirco has levels of quality which lead to issues.
Here are a few pictures of my POTC playfield issues and a link to the JJP related thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-who-has-playfield-dimples-cracking-wear-around-star-posts-
The original JJP POTC club thread that started the POTC discussion:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jjp-pirates-of-the-caribbean-official-owners-and-fan-club
Dialed-In owners talk about their playfield chipping, I think those are Mirco too?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dialed-in-owners-and-fans-club
Discussion in JJP making more POTC thread
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/will-jjp-make-more-potc/page/8#post-5066567
AFM Mirco playfield wear discussion
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/afm-mirco-playfields-whats-the-wear-situation-after-a-couple-of-years#post-1899111
Maybe Mirco will chime in and clear the air give some input as to why these things might be happening.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Posts etc. tightened down too much. Most people do this when installing a repro playfield. Manufacturers too I guess.

#22 14 days ago

Fresh clear will crack weeks later if too much pressure is applied when it’s still curing. By tightening posts, etc. before it’s cured. I worked in body repair at a good Porsche/Audi shop and saw emblems, etc. screwed to tight and cracked weeks or months later. We used BASF clearcoat system and same thing happened.

#23 14 days ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

I like to sand polish and assemble in about two weeks of the final clear application
It will be at this point that the clear is well cured but still flexible enough to withstand the assembly process.
The products I use are designed for an overnight air dry and next day delivery on automobiles so that two week window is already overkill.
The difference in what I am doing and those that make playfields though is I am working on and adding to existing finish but they are actually creating one.
That is a much bigger difference than it may seem.

Ah it feels so good to read that. The Spray Max thread has people swearing it takes months of cure time. I put my JP playfield back together after a few days and it has zero issues with indentations. I am sure they aren't the exact same products that you use but they are made for automotive repair and I kept insisting that no auto repair place waits any significant time after applying clear to finish the car.

#24 14 days ago
Quoted from Jarbyjibbo:

Yes, both PF's I purchased directly from them had issues so I stopped buying from them altogether.
How's this for an "issue" that he promptly ignored when I inquired about it after it arrived.... There were many more issues on both PF's but this photo tells the story well enough.[quoted image]

I'm not seeing the issue?

#25 14 days ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Was just editing my last post, it clears things up...

Ahhhh yea.

Quoted from Completist:

I only have experience with Mirco direct pf’s that i have installed. I Didn’t have any issues during install or in the time since - of course thats not to say things cant change, only time will tell. So far so good.
I don’t own any JJP’s or am one of the unfortunate people who had issues with their pf’s. I am not a Mirco fanboy, or any others for that matter. But i think the poll option for the mirco direct will not only reflect the quality of pf - it will reflect the quality of install.
If someone wails on t nuts to drive them in i would not worry about cracks - i would expect them. They will form along inserts or between closely spaced through holes. Same with installing topside screws. You really need to remove the clear away from the threads. Otherwise they can grab and lift or crack clear around the holes. This applies to any repro pf not just Mirco’s.

There is definitely something to be said for end-user installs.

And I am sure there is something to be said for us picky-ass pinball fans.

#26 14 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Ah it feels so good to read that. The Spray Max thread has people swearing it takes months of cure time. I put my JP playfield back together after a few days and it has zero issues with indentations. I am sure they aren't the exact same products that you use but they are made for automotive repair and I kept insisting that no auto repair place waits any significant time after applying clear to finish the car.

They dont. But they know not to screw shit too tight on the body.

#27 14 days ago

You need any more pop bumper posts.

#28 14 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I'm not seeing the issue?

I can't tell if that is sarcasm or not but clear coats are generally glossy in appearance. You should be able to clearly see all 4 lights in my fixture. This was a well in the clear not level with the rest of the pf. This was just one of many pf issues requiring a full reclear.

#29 14 days ago

Manufacturers also use unskilled labor with powered drivers setting the screws on the playfield posts, etc. No relief on the clear in the holes. It cracks most of the time I’ve done that. That’s why you overdrill every hole in a repro playfield. Some folks even buy a special kit of grinding tools from some guy in Michigan for that reason

#30 14 days ago

Final post: all clearcoat shrinks as it cures.

#31 14 days ago
Quoted from Jarbyjibbo:

I can't tell if that is sarcasm or not but clear coats are generally glossy in appearance. You should be able to clearly see all 4 lights in my fixture. This was a well in the clear not level with the rest of the pf. This was just one of many pf issues requiring a full reclear.

Ha, not sarcasm! Now I see what you are saying.

#32 14 days ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

The Mirco playfields vary from generation to generation an even run to run.
Anytime you are dealing with wood,plastic and coatings as well as chemistry in general it can be a mixed bag.
What I recommend is take each and everything on a case by case basis.
You have chipping down to the wood on a low play game?
There is an adhesion problem between the wood and the initial layers of art.
You have clear chipping off the art but art remains intact?
You have a clear adhesion problem or it is simply wear with the clear being the first line of defense.
That is all it comes down to.
If you see wood or ghosting it is on the ground floor
If it is clear only issues it is typical wear or at the top coat level.
Doesn’t matter who made it that is what you are dealing with.
Just a general guideline to follow.

But is that a prep issue? An ink issue? A drying issue? You don't seem to have these problem (at least not that I've heard of), so it CAN be done. This has been an issue for a few YEARS now, on and off. Seems like if it's solvable, Mirco would have a solution implemented...

#33 14 days ago
Quoted from jj44114:

Manufacturers also use unskilled labor with powered drivers setting the screws on the playfield posts, etc. No relief on the clear in the holes. It cracks most of the time I’ve done that. That’s why you overdrill every hole in a repro playfield. Some folks even buy a special kit of grinding tools from some guy in Michigan for that reason

You can set the drill so it stops once a certain level of torque is met. This is basic tools 101. You're telling me they don't do this?

#34 14 days ago

Probably not

#35 14 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

You can set the drill so it stops once a certain level of torque is met. This is basic tools 101. You're telling me they don't do this?

Totally agree.
I really cant see this beeing an issue. Car assembly lines etc, obviously has all assembly tools set to the right torque, why shouldnt pinball assembly lines?

This is really a nobrainer and shouldnt be considered an issue.

#36 14 days ago

Building 50,000 is a little different than building 2000.

#37 14 days ago

Paging Dr. kruzman
I had an absolute shit show of a Funhouse playfield. The clear pooled around the posts after 2 days. No, they were not over tightened. Removed the post and almost a day later the clear was almost flat again. The cherry ontop was the side rail holes were drilled crooked and the majority of holes drilled 1/8" to the right. A mutual friend had a Mirco FH pf and had the same clear coat pooling but also the graphics lifted up with the pooling and was chipped to hell (down tot eh wood) after 6 months of being routed. Friends of a friend were at TPF and they looked at Mircos booth. Specifically the FH playfields. They confirmed the playfield they could see was also drilled 1/8" off which makes the playfield junk. Mirco was notified of my issues via email before and during TPF. Never responded while at TPF. Imagine the poor bastards who have a playfield in the closet or hanging on the wall that's misdrilled LOL. It truly is a wall hanger now!
The emails he sent me before he left I will say he said he'd stand by his product. However he blamed my installer for over tightening (which later research shows on RPG he's infamous for passing blame) and he also told me you MUST use hole protectors or the clear WILL chip and crack. After I found out his TPF product was also faulty I.lost confidence in his product and just filed a charge back with my bank and bought a different one. I also own a Hobbit. The playfield is an embarrassment. Looks like a damn golf ball. The clear started to crack on both holes so I installed a set of Cliffys which matches up to his comment about must use protectors. So here's the real problem. When the manufacturer of the product says you MUST use hole protectors or it WILL crack (yes I have emails to back this up) and JJP isnt installing hole protectors let alone including a note with the machine that states for optimal life expectancy install hole protectors is just beyond unacceptable. I'm sick and tired of people making excuses. The NOS playfielda lasted/last how long and these things cant even survive 6 months or less without issues? My installer has. STTNG playfield from Mirco that is perfect. The clear is hard and its drilled correctly so we know things can be done right but something has changed and its plaguing what I'd imagine to be a very large number of JJP titles as well as other titled playfields. My advice, if you have to buy a Mirco sendnitnto Kruzman (or whomever) for a clear job OR first thing you do is set a couple posts on opppaoye sides (because another issue is the clear is uneven) and wait two days. If you see pooling send it back and then have your new playfield drop shipped to a professional.clearncoater of your choice. I'm serious, Mirco needs to fix his shit or allow the public to buy playfields without clear so we have the opportunity to let the pros clear coat them. If you want pictures go look at the Funhouse members thread they're all there.

#38 14 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

You can set the drill so it stops once a certain level of torque is met. This is basic tools 101. You're telling me they don't do this?

Have you ever worked on an assembly line? Lines generally move fast. Employees are not standing around picking their noses. New hires on the line make new hire mistakes. Depending on management, discipline, and punishment, a new hire is most likely scared to death of screwing up and getting fired. If management employes a punitive attitude, the new hire will probably keep quite and hope he is not found out.

I worked a tractor assembly line for a couple of months. I got 5 minutes of training and the line was rolling. On one model of tractor, if I dropped a bolt and bent down to pick it up I was behind---for the rest of the ever-loving shift. It sucked.

I doubt working on Stern's assemble line is a picnic. Maybe the employee thinks mistake will be covered under a piece of plastic. Mum is the word and act like it was not you who cut the fart.

Tools foul up. The line does not stop. Need to take a leak. Hold it until lunch time. The line does not stop.

On my Munsters I have found wire harness sections routed incorrectly and stretched to the limit because of the misrouting before the connectors were snapped together.

There are the movies you see on TV of some assembly line. And then there are the real assembly lines peopled by real people and no one is looking.

#39 14 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Have you ever worked on an assembly line? Lines generally move fast. Employees are not standing around picking their noses. New hires on the line make new hire mistakes. Depending on management, discipline, and punishment, a new hire is most likely scared to death of screwing up and getting fired. If management employes a punitive attitude, the new hire will probably keep quite and hope he is not found out.
I worked a tractor assembly line for a couple of months. I got 5 minutes of training and the line was rolling. On one model of tractor, if I dropped a bolt and bent down to pick it up I was behind---for the rest of the ever-loving shift. It sucked.
I doubt working on Stern's assemble line is a picnic. Maybe the employee thinks mistake will be covered under a piece of plastic. Mum is the word and act like it was not you who cut the fart.
Tools foul up. The line does not stop. Need to take a leak. Hold it until lunch time. The line does not stop.
On my Munsters I have found wire harness sections routed incorrectly and stretched to the limit because of the misrouting before the connectors were snapped together.
There are the movies you see on TV of some assembly line. And then there are the real assembly lines peopled by real people and no one is looking.

This is not a tractor assembly line. Have you seen videos of pins being made? And not to mention these are relatively expensive toys with low production numbers. Hand made care should be taken when building $12k toys.

#40 14 days ago

So, here's a question that I think no one can answer.

If we take one of these "mushy" playfields and clear over it with some top notch auto clear will that prevent it from bunching up? Is it the clear that can be "helped along" or is this a problem starting at the wood/art?

#41 14 days ago

A house is only as strong as the foundation. The same is true for paint. Applying more clear will not fix the problem. Auto clear takes 30 -90 days to cure (depending on temperature and humidity). The evaporating petroleum based solvents will cause water to bead up on a freshly painted car. When the clear coat has cured, water will sheet. I’m an ASE, I-CAR and PPG master certified auto painter with over 25 years experience. Metal ball vs. wood - metal always wins.

#42 13 days ago
Quoted from jab:

A house is only as strong as the foundation. The same is true for paint. Applying more clear will not fix the problem. Auto clear takes 30 -90 days to cure (depending on temperature and humidity). The evaporating petroleum based solvents will cause water to bead up on a freshly painted car. When the clear coat has cured, water will sheet. I’m an ASE, I-CAR and PPG master certified auto painter with over 25 years experience. Metal ball vs. wood - metal always wins.

So what are you saying in terms of the cracking, chipping and mushy clear in the pictures above. What went wrong?

#43 13 days ago

Mushy clear has not cured, it’s still flowing. Cracking clear has cured but lacks adhesion in a layer below.

#44 13 days ago

So... Both of those things are happening then.

#45 13 days ago

I use clear coats that are drivable in 45 minutes every day. They still take 30 - 90 days to fully cure. I use retarders to slow the drying process on playfields I restore to allow them to fully cure with maximum film build. UV cure products are future of the industry.

#46 13 days ago

In a nutshell, you don’t want a playfield to dry on top but be soft underneath. That’s why I slow the cure time with retarders on playfields I restore so they are cured completely through before I assemble the pin.

#47 13 days ago
Quoted from jab:

I use clear coats that are drivable in 45 minutes every day. They still take 30 - 90 days to fully cure. I use retarders to slow the drying process on playfields I restore to allow them to fully cure with maximum film build. UV cure products are future of the industry.

Hum.. Clatskanie, eh? Got room to do a few more playfields?

#48 13 days ago

I have a lot of pinball friends between portland and seattle. Please expect a slow turn around time for pf resto. I do let paint curre

#49 13 days ago

I purchased a new playfield from Mirco at a show. Looked through a lot of fields to find one I thought I was satisfied with. (Least amount of key lines in the insert blacks). Waited a few weeks to install, saw some additional lines that I thought for sure were not there before. Oh well it's gotta get installed now. Game goes together. Everything lines up. One test game to make sure the game plays as intended. Literally one shot out of the scoop and a chunk of the paint comes flying off of the game. Enough of the finish plus the paint came off the of field that the ball was effected by this partial loss of the playing surface. I had previously with another field reached out to Mirco and the results of that were not in my favor so I decided to live and learn. At this point I have several titles that we would fully restore to the best of our abilities but I cannot trust all that effort to something that will as an end result, fail rather quickly. Not blaming anyone. This is not to have anyone come running to my defense. I would just rather have a decent route example with some wear than a perfect game for a few plays then be disappointed. If you look at my games on route you see then are mostly very nice examples of the games on the inside and out. I've seen a lot of collections and I would compare our route games to most nice to very nice home collections. It's all about routine maintenance for us.

#50 13 days ago

I have no knowledge of any playfield manufacturer's processes, so this is not a knock on them... just some things I have learned from painting cars over the last 35 years.

There are many types of clear out there with different properties of curing times and final hardness, but they must be properly applied.
Improper application can cause any coating to fail.

The clear must be thinned to allow it to be properly atomized to be sprayed, and then to flow out and level on the surface.
You should use a thinner suited for the ambient temperature at application time.
Ideally, you want the clear to go on, level out, and then stop moving.
If you use a solvent that is too fast, it won't level out, and you will have orange peel.
If you use a solvent that is too slow, or you use too much solvent, you will have runs and sags.

One of the main causes for "soft" clear is not allowing enough time between coats for the solvent in the first coat(s) to evaporate out.
The top coat flashes off, trapping the solvents in the lower coats, resulting in poor physical properties of the finished product.
This can be fixed, but it requires removing (wet sanding) some of the soft clear, allowing a little time for any remaining trapped solvent to evaporate, and properly applying more clear.

Hope this helps...

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