no way in hell does a hardtop retain the value of an original playfield, guys on here asking outrageous prices for a game with a hardtop on it.

Yeah those old boards were dogshit and were meant to last 5 years, not 40, so here we are!

They weren't "built to last," any of them. Every old gottlieb or Bally SS game I get usually gets a new board or two.

That ad is pure cringe. Wow.

I take some of that back, not all of it but it’s very heavy handed in some parts. Asking for feedback at the end was a good idea and your pictures aren’t terrible.

I wouldn’t bring up that some games are 20,000. This is a firepower we are taking about here.

I wouldn’t stress the guy waking out on you. It happens.

I'll take a game with a properly installed hardtop any day over a beat up and worn original playfield without a hardtop. It's a big improvement IMO.

Depends...big variation on quality of Hard Tops; also if they are cleared etc.
And how worn the OG is.

Ha....wow is right.

Honestly for a Firepower, that playfield looks very good.

Your side of the story -- and it could be accurate -- may be different than his side. Perhaps the description you gave didn't match his, and he didn't want to hurt your feelings or low-ball you so he left it at that.

I've been in this situation twice, once as a buyer and once as a seller. Though it was local, each transaction was serious until the meeting. I changed my mind when I started playing the game with my wife. It was a rare game so I could only use youtube as a source, but when I played it I just wasn't liking it at all. So I changed my mind.

On the other end, the seller was on the fence after seeing possible dings on the door and other such imperfections. I didn't see what he did, but that's totally fine. If it wasn't pristine, he didn't want it, so he changed his mind. No problems with it. I'm glad he was honest with me.

Things happen!

I’ve walked, I’ve had buyers walk - and:

I’ve refused to sell a game to someone. Some people just give you the wrong “feeling”, like they expect everything to work forever. I’ll explain the game is guaranteed to work right now. In theory, it should work fine for a long time. It might not upon you getting home. If you don’t understand pinball enough to accept that, I’d rather not sell to you.

Haven’t seen these yet! Very cool.

One other point that I can relate to the OP, nowadays just having a stranger come to your house is stressful enough.
And the disappointment when they don't take the game, that you have to start over to find a buyer can be kind of stressful.

Good luck finding a buyer game looks nice!

I made some suggestions:

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best reply ever

sorry OP but I wouldn't drive a half block for the TZ ... just not my taste!

At least 10 times. But I don't care, I describe my games in lesser condition than they actually are and typically when a buyer shows up, they can't wait to hand me the $. For those that don't, it's their loss... I will just take it to a show and once people see and play it, it sells every single time. I'm disappointed that I don't have any pins to sell at LAX this year.

I had a guy drive 2 and a half hours on time to buy a flight 2k. We talked, I did a video walk over of the game before hand I told him I am unwavering on price, this is as good as it gets so know that before you drive here. He looked it over and agreed it was exactly as advertised but it didn't have the coin mecs and the stepper didn't empty between balls like it did in his video game version of the game so he left with no game.

I had about 6 people over who collective between us all own about 100 games, all told him its rare for a game that old to still have coin mecs but he just didn't believe us. Still the strangest interaction selling a game I have had.

Absolutely. Both ways. It happens. I learned from it that I need to put everything upfront. I've driven 4 hours for a game once where, unbeknownst to me the bottom of the cab was almost nonexistent. Luckily the seller understood that he never disclosed it and worked with me on the price, if not I would have definitely left empty-handed.

Also ForceFlow that's amazing. You win the internet today.

You got some pretty good feedback. Here is the TLDR version: Don't be overly wordy; don't contradict yourself. Done

This is an unbelievable story. I wouldn't know what to say at that point.

Hard top to me reduces value, the OE thread is full of multiple failures.

Yeah that's like a million times better.

Exactly what I was saying. They have a purpose: for games that are blown out and will never have a new run of playfields made due to lack of demand. They play entirely different. The ball skids over the plastic, where the wood adds friction and the ball actually rolls.

Even if they’re heavily damaged, you could offer the old boards with the machine if the new owner wants to fix them, or you could sell them separately for cheap to someone who wants to fix them.

Theres a very good chance you could have sent them off to one of the many expert (and affordable) board repair guys and had them fixed for a lot less than the new boards.

At the end of the day, the condition didn't reflect the price in the buyers eye. Be glad it was him that traveled so far and not you. Another buyer will come along or the price will have to get lower. You aren't guaranteed to recoup your expenses on a sale.

Since when are people clearing Hard Tops? Are you thinking of an overlay or is this some new development I haven't heard of yet?

Me either

The alltek MPUs are a huge upgrade for me. I've had one fail (out of the box) out of dozens over the past couple decades, and it's just one less thing to worry about on an old Bally game. If there's an issue, I know it ain't the MPU. And I consider them cheap the improved reliability and ease of use for what they cost.

plus they offer free play, which is a huge improvement for me over installing a doorbell switch or having to monkey around with coin switches, or even the "low replay" gambit. A lot of buyers don't want to have to worry about running out of credits.

I think a good percentage of walk-aways are egos at work. Buyer and seller.

I had someone give me $100 over what I was selling a game for because it was nicer than I had described for the price I was selling it for. So there's that.

Nope

Yes sorry that's what I was thinking.

Sorry again I had edited my post after as it wasn't an alltek, but a Rottendog which he was responding to; def not comparable.

I show up planning to pay the asking price.

But if the pin is an underachiever relative to what I thought it was condition wise I won't hesitate to walk. I don't care if I drove 12 hours one way.

Walking is not a negotiating tactic. I'm walking because I'm rejecting your pin.

Much better and to the point!

I already answered the question.

The Outside Edge thread on this forum is full of complaints.

Bad art registration, failing to adhere, poor cnc cuts, art delamination, etc.

It's called "researching the product before you buy" and every time I research the product someone else posts of their misfortune.

No thanks.

I've heard that some people clear/seal the wood after sanding it down--not the hardtop.

I've never had that happen.

On the buying side, I've had a few sellers negotiate against themselves and offer to sell it at a lower price because of some perceived difficulty, issue, or inconvenience. Even though I was fully prepared to pay their asking price, they refused it.

One time I went to pick up a Middle Earth project and the seller was maybe 10 minutes late getting home, so they knocked $100 off the price. I said it wasn't a problem and offered their full asking price, but they insisted on taking less. Go figure.

One time I went to grab a Barb Wire from someone's basement. The game was pushed up against the wall and the photos only showed one side of the game. That side looked fine, but the other side that was against the wall was terribly water damaged--so bad that the plywood layers were rippled and separating. I walked away from that one. I didn't want to deal with trying to fix that kind of damage.

In the EM market it seems like if it’s a desirable title and priced reasonable, people line up quickly, often offering the seller more money to cut in to the front of the line.

I just got lucky buying a really nice 1976 Sonic Faces when the guy in front of me backed off because it had gameplay issues that he’d have to pay someone to fix.

On the flip side, I’ve showed up to buy machines that looked a lot worse in person and I thought about walking away but so far I’ve always followed through because I figured that was my fault.

Nothing wrong with hard tops if they're put in right, I done a wizard and a Black Knight. They are not for everybody but they certainly don't devalue the game imo.

I have had a guy walk away from a devil's dare over who knows what, and I personally have walked away from a strange science, duct taped ramps, bad boards, non booting, blown out PF, missing back glass, Craigslist ad said it was working and the pics were from when it was like years ago, it was a true bait and switch. The guy was pissed off that I walked away so quickly, I'd say it took about one minute maybe two to walk away. But it was funny because I remember pulling out of the driveway and looking in the garage and he was just defeated, sunken over the machine staring at all the locked on inserts.

It happens on rare occasion... But I did agree to hold the game for a while and I also went out of my way to make sure everything went smoothly. Never asked for extra, it just happened.

As a person who makes a living buying and selling things, here are a few truisms:

-There are tons of people out there. Some are great...some aren't. There are people that have very poor morals, and they don't care.

-There are people that are turned off by long and restrictive listings. I'm not one of them.

-Some people will make ANY excuse to convince themselves the price should be lower, or even that they shouldn't buy. The classic excuse involves the "wife," which is laughable. It allows the person to displace the onus of blame of backing out on another person. Pathetic.

-There are butterflies on both sides of things; buyers and sellers. Try not to let it get you down...it won't help.

-pop bumpers and stand up targets are simply not as desirable as drop targets for earlier games. Williams pins are not as sought after as Bally's for early SS pins, and Firepower has over 17000 examples...so it isn't rare. Add that to the fact that the listing is over the top end of the pinside estimation...and you get a pin that sits. Having said that...all you really need is that 1 person who wants it.

P.S. I would consider hardtops a LAST resort, and I wouldn't own a pin with one unless it was incredibly cheap. There is a pin I want very much...from a trusted seller very close to me...and at a cheap price. It has a hardtop, and I haven't even contacted him about it whatsoever. I live in a pin-hungry area, and it has been sitting there for MONTHS with many other pinballers passing on it as well. Hardtops are simply NOT desirable for a lot of people.

Understand these principles and act accordingly.

People have good luck with Classic Arcades too.

Just because you had a positive result, that does not transfer over to a number of people who have not.

I had someone walk, but it was own my fault.

He had driven 3 hours to buy a DE Batman I had posted on FB marketplace. It was going to be a gift for his father, who was a huge Batman collector.

When we went into my gameroom he took one look at my BM66 sitting next to the DE Batman and said, "Wow, my dad would really love that one!" After a lengthy discussion, he offered me a fair price for it, but I had only gotten my BM66 recently and wasn't ready to sell it yet.

He then said, "Would you mind if I'd tried to find one of these for my dad instead? He loves that old Batman TV show."

I was disappointed, but what could I say? I didn't blame him, I'd feel the same way looking at the two pins side by side for the first time.

So, I told him about Pinside and how to search for pins for sale. We played a few games on both Batman pins, then we shook hands and he headed back home.

Silver lining: He let me keep the $200 deposit he had Paypal'd me!