When NAVL came to deliver AFM. I was waiting in my garage as the truck pulled up out front. I couldn't see in the truck because it was sideways to me.
Then I was horrified as I saw my AFM come out of the truck at a 45 degree angle on a standard 2 wheel hand cart with the legs on.

Try to Imagine this....A pin with the legs on top down standing on it's legs. This guy put standard 2 wheel hand cart on the back of the machine. Then he placed a steel plate on the hand trucks base to extend it so it went under the legs. Strapped it to the cart and away he went....can you get a picture of this in your mind?

It didn't look to good. So I went running down the driveway screaming whoa whoa as this guy had this thing tipped back at a 45 degree angle on this 2 wheel cart on the lift gate and was lowering it down....I swear I thought I was going to see my AFM smashed in the street as the rear legs bend.

He got it off the truck and I told him, as nicely as I could, just leave it right there, I'll take it from here. I told him that wasn't a good idea, and I got my hydrolic 4 wheel cart and brought it in.

I have used NAVL many times and I've never seen this. It seems like this method puts way to much strain on the rear legs.....they have always used 2 guys to move a pin....they had two guys but they did it this way anyway, probably because old grumpy bastard couldn't lift it.

Then After I got it In....and was opening up the back glass....I cracked it! doh!

Has anyone ever seen a pin carried this way?

#2 12 years ago

HDC

HELLODEADCITY

Inactive member

15y 72,650 5,822 8

Wow that sounds crazy!

I guess thats why so many refuse to ship a game - you just never know the kind of cat who will load/unload it

#3 12 years ago

LOU

Loupie

Inactive member

Monroe, OH

19y 32,150 396 4

No, I haven't. Did they have the head down the balls secure and plastic wrapped or something?

#4 12 years ago

LOU

Loupie

Inactive member

Monroe, OH

19y 32,150 396 4

How did you crack the back glass getting it out? Did it get hung up on an angle? Just curious.

#5 12 years ago

WIL

jwwhite15

Pinside+ Frequent

13y 105K 2,706 1

If anyone knows about crazy Pinball transportation it would be BR, I am surprised he has not chimed in... Jk BR, I just can't get that PinBot out of my head.

Wes, that is nuts. I was wondering when you ship NVAL is the Pin insured? I know its not the same but I was just wondering. Glad AFM made it ok...well...until you got ahold of it.

#6 12 years ago

???

pinmike

Inactive member

Bossier City, LA

13y 56,600 5,368

Quoted from jwwhite15:
when you ship NVAL is the Pin insured?

It is insured and am very suprised Wes that they would carry a Pin that way
i have used them plenty of times and it was never done like that.I received
my LOTR a month ago and two guys moved the pin and brought in the old
fashioned way.

#7 12 years ago

???

spiffy

Inactive member

Unknown

12y 24,150 27

OP
Quoted from wesperron:
Has anyone ever seen a pin carried this way?

I have moved dozens of pinballs by myself using the same method used by your delivery guy, and I don't think I have ever damaged one (or the legs) by doing it that way. However, the potential damage this method can cause (if you mess up) is probably greater than most other methods. I use a hydrolic lift like you have sometimes, which is great as long as the surfaces are smooth that you are travelling over. My favorite method overall (for ease and safety) is with an old fashioned pinball dolly with a gasket.

#8 12 years ago

WES

wesperron

Pinside member

Boston, MA

13y 53,900 1,360 9 56

Quoted from Loupie:
How did you crack the back glass getting it out? Did it get hung up on an angle? Just curious.

Well. First of all there was no lock. So when it was carried the way it was, the dmd section had gotten jammed up with the back glass. So I had to wiggle it to get it unjammed. In doing so I wiggled a little to hard on the back glass.

#9 12 years ago

JIM

pintastic

Pinside member

Rocky Mt, VA

13y 41,400 833 6

Quoted from jwwhite15:
If anyone knows about crazy Pinball transportation it would be BR, I am surprised he has not chimed in... [] Jk BR, I just can't get that PinBot out of my head

I was thinking the same thing......

#10 12 years ago

WES

wesperron

Pinside member

Boston, MA

13y 53,900 1,360 9 56

Quoted from spiffy:
I have moved dozens of pinballs by myself using the same method used by your delivery guy, and I don't think I have ever damaged one (or the legs) by doing it that way. However, the potential damage this method can cause (if you mess up) is probably greater than most other methods. I use a hydrolic lift like you have sometimes, which is great as long as the surfaces are smooth that you are travelling over. My favorite method overall (for ease and safety) is with an old fashioned pinball dolly with a gasket.

Thanks, that makes me feel a little better. It just looked really scary.

#11 12 years ago

MAT

Anim8ormatt

Inactive member

Highlands Ranch, CO

12y 54,400 2,193 5 21

I have seen them moved that way. Here's instructions for modifying a fridge dolly.

http://www.flippers.com/pin-tips.html

#12 12 years ago

RND

RawleyD

Pinside member

Roanoke, VA

14y 67,650 3,243 36

sounds like the mover knew what he was doing. I dunno Wes ^_^

#13 12 years ago

CMB

pin-tastic

Pinside member

14y 35,150 713

Who in their right mind has a game shipped with the legs on in the first place, that's a big NO NO. When shipping a machine I always fold the game up, blanket, shrink wrap and palletize and in some cases actually crate the entire thing. I always assume worse case scenario when getting a machine ready, cause you never know what can happen, besides AFM is too expensive of a machine to take any risks on when it comes to shipping.

#14 12 years ago

???

jalpert

Pinside member

Unknown

14y 70,050 7,517

There is nothing wrong with shipping with the legs on. NAVL is the only company that will take it that way. I always wrap it up really well, never had a problem. Besides NAVL, all other companies require a pallet.

Quoted from pin-tastic:
Who in their right mind has a game shipped with the legs on in the first place, that's a big NO NO. When shipping a machine I always fold the game up, blanket, shrink wrap and palletize and in some cases actually crate the entire thing. I always assume worse case scenario when getting a machine ready, cause you never know what can happen, besides AFM is too expensive of a machine to take any risks on when it comes to shipping.

#15 12 years ago

CMB

pin-tastic

Pinside member

14y 35,150 713

Pin legs were not designed to be left on during shipping, you may have not had any problems yet, but I personally will not ship a game this way, check with some of the top pinball restorers, High End Pins etc. think everything that they send out gets placed on a pallet. I know NAVL is probably the only one around that will allow you to ship a game this way, but why take the chance on a high dollar machine.

#16 12 years ago

BRI

gweempose

Pinside Moderator

13y 154K 20,207 37

Quoted from jalpert:
There is nothing wrong with shipping with the legs on ...

Why not take them off just to be on the safe side? It's not like they are hard to remove. Is there an advantage to shipping them with the legs on that I am missing?

#17 12 years ago

WES

wesperron

Pinside member

Boston, MA

13y 53,900 1,360 9 56

Quoted from gweempose:
Why not take them off just to be on the safe side? It's not like they are hard to remove. Is there an advantage to shipping them with the legs on that I am missing?

I prefer a game shipped with the legs off but I don't mind it being shipped with the legs on. I've had games shipped from the other side of the country without any problems. Even this one arrived ok but it was scary.

With the legs on you don't need a palet. You also don't have to worry about what to do with the legs. Also you don't have to worry about stapping it to the palet or having it fall over.

Shipping with the legs on is easier as all you do is put the top down and your done.

#18 12 years ago

GEM

Silverballer

Pinside member

14y 88,300 3,238 51

I have to chime in on this because I feel so strongly about not shipping with the legs on. Sometimes bad things happen but the chances go up when the game is not wrapped securely and strapped to a pallet. Doing so creates a lower center of gravity and doesnt tempt drivers to carry the game around. Again, bad things can happen: poor or shifting loads can cause other items to move and it can get ugly. I just dont see why one wouldnt take the safest measures to get such an costly item delivered. It only takes a few minutes to put the legs on. I like to use that opportunity to inspect the bolt hole area and then set the pretension on the legs properly. Just my two cents, which is about all I have left after hanging around this forum lately.

#19 12 years ago

JTB

The_Gorilla

Pinside+ Frequent

Pleasant Hill, IA

13y 116K 5,602 2 159

My first shipped pin arrived legs on and was FUBAR. However, my second shipped pin was moved by the seller legs off, folded, blanketed, and strapped....and still has come not working properly. My 3rd shipped pin arrives Tuesday. Maybe it will catch on fire????

The 3 I have picked up personally have all been fine. One of them I moved 300 miles (I know BR, you do that weekly...)

I guess I am gonna only buy from where I can drive from now on.

#20 12 years ago

BAS

pinbob

Pinside member

13y 46,400 290 42

When shipping from pinhead to pinhead, it might make sense to ship with legs off. When a non-pinhead or someone who is not willing to palletize or crate the game for shipping sells a game, it's good to hear some success stories with NAVL. In fact, it gives me a little hope in looking farther than the SF Bay Area. Since pins here are always higher than what seems to be everywhere else in the states, sometimes the pins are cheaper to buy remotely and pay for shipping. Only remaining problem is how to properly value a game without seeing it or playing it but reputable sellers can help with that I suppose.

#21 12 years ago

???

jalpert

Pinside member

Unknown

14y 70,050 7,517

Hmmmmm. I never said that shipping a pinball machine with the legs on was the absolute best way to ship a pinball. Pay HEP $7K and you better believe the game will be on a pallet. However, that has nothing to do with the fact that shipping a pinball with the legs on is 100% fine.

I was at the R&L dock a couple weeks ago picking up a pin. As he brought it down the ramp 4 feet high on the forklift, the game was wobbling on the pallet. The straps broke during shipping, MIRACLE the thing survived, it would have been obvious if it toppled, it would have been destroyed.

Does that mean that shipping a pin on a pallet is a bad idea? No. All it means is that shit happens, and it can happen with the legs on or off.

I'm sure pin legs were not designed with the specific purpose of shipping. Pin legs are more than strong enough to handle shipping, no problem there.

In my opinion, shipping a pin on a pallet is no safer than shipping a pin with NAVL and the legs on. This opinion is based on all the pinheads I know. You'll find horror stories either way, and while I'm sure NAVL has destroyed many a game, the only real issues I've ever heard of were on a pallet with various shipping companies. Most of the people I know have used NAVL, I don't personally know anyone who's had an issue.

Quoted from pin-tastic:
Pin legs were not designed to be left on during shipping, you may have not had any problems yet, but I personally will not ship a game this way, check with some of the top pinball restorers, High End Pins etc. think everything that they send out gets placed on a pallet. I know NAVL is probably the only one around that will allow you to ship a game this way, but why take the chance on a high dollar machine.

#22 12 years ago

JRJ

jarjarisgod

Pinside member

Madison, WI

14y 97,150 5,087 82

Quoted from The_Gorilla:
My 3rd shipped pin arrives Tuesday. Maybe it will catch on fire????

You know what they say... The third time's the charm!

6 months later

#23 12 years ago

CAM

Jediturtle

Pinside member

Plymouth, WI

12y 109K 4,482 14 66

I wouldn't be nearly as worried about the legs as I would be about the cabinet where the legs attach. All that shifting around and "wobbling" in transit cannot be good for the cab and artwork. I would not be happy about a pin being shipped to me with legs on.

#24 12 years ago

CAL

mojozone

Pinside member

Fort Dodge, IA

12y 51,400 2,557 4 32

I was so green the first time i got my pin, i loaded it up in the bed of my truck with the legs on...one strap holding it down! i had no idea what i was doing.

#25 12 years ago

nerd

Inactive member

12y 15,150 146 1 6

Quoted from mojozone:
I was so green the first time i got my pin, i loaded it up in the bed of my truck with the legs on...one strap holding it down! i had no idea what i was doing.

HA! I did the exact same thing. I didn't have a choice though 'cause I only had helpers for an hour. It was a white-knuckle drive for sure. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to get it home.

#26 12 years ago

robertmee

Pinside member

Raleigh, NC

12y 82,800 6,430 15 9

Like this

attack-from-mars-pinball.jpg

#27 12 years ago

WES

wesperron

Pinside member

Boston, MA

13y 53,900 1,360 9 56

yes like that

#28 12 years ago

Skyemont

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 125K 5,973

I have seen pins moved just like Robertmee picture but normally when NAVL picks up from me or delivers to me, they do not use a hand cart, they just keep the legs on and pick it up..

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