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(Topic ID: 174398)

Have you bought unseen from a Pinsider?


By investingdad

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 54 posts
  • 40 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by romulusx
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    There are 54 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 4 years ago

    Wondering if any folks on here have bought a pin unseen from a fellow Pinsider? I'm looking at a pin that appears to be in very nice condition but it's about 900 miles away.

    Seller has been on Pinside for awhile and has sold games before. We talked on the phone about the pin and he sent additional photos. Because we're talking several thousand dollars and me arranging shipping...well, never having done this before I'm a little concerned about what could go wrong.

    After reading Vid's suggestion to use a reputable escrow agent, I suggested that. He has some concerns about that path which, after reading what can go wrong, I understand.

    Appreciate any advice and guidance. Thanks all!

    #2 4 years ago

    Several, shipped from the US to Canada before our dollar tanked. Talk to them, get as much info as possible, check with other pinside members who can vouch for them. I've done that before. Never had a problem, but I know others have. Just be as diligent as possible.

    #3 4 years ago

    My game wasn't from a Pinsider necessarily but I saw a game I wanted on Craigslist... but on the other side of the country! So I paid a Pinsider (through PayPal) to pick up the game, and store it until I could ship it out. Then I paid the shipping direct to the shipping company (Beltmann/STI) and got it here.

    The escrow thing protects both the buyer and seller, yes. I would probably consider that - but I guess it's more important when dealing with several thousand dollars. I knew generally what I was getting and was willing to accept my machine even if it didn't look as great as it did in the very few pictures I saw, but it ended up looking GREAT anyways. I was very happy and have no regrets with buying it.

    Maybe you would ease his mind by linking him to Vid's thread right here on Pinside, the site you are both members on. Easy!

    #4 4 years ago

    Potential for shipping damage is life, but very low IMO if you use Michelle and the game is prepped properly. I would not depend on the pickup guys prepping it at all. The seller should cocoon that thing as much as possible.

    I've bought many games this way including several 10k+ HEP machines. It can be nerve wrecking naturally.

    I've only had one issue with an ACDC Premium, it was damaged on bottom near speaker grill. I was able to make good on a claim though so I cannot complain.

    #5 4 years ago

    I got a freight estimate from Michelle, I'm assuming her folks will pack it correctly. Her estimate included insurance. Seller said he'd lay down the backbox on a blanket but all packing would be by Michelle's folks.

    #6 4 years ago

    Many of us have bought and sold unseen but good advice is don't gamble what you can't afford to lose. After communicating with the seller your gut should tell you a lot.

    #7 4 years ago
    Quoted from investingdad:

    I got a freight estimate from Michelle, I'm assuming her folks will pack it correctly. Her estimate included insurance. Seller said he'd lay down the backbox on a blanket but all packing would be by Michelle's folks.

    Do not trust packing by these folks. To my understanding, Michelle coordinates the shippers, but the machine will be handled by at least three parties: 1. local pickup to terminal A, terminal A to terminal B, terminal B to destination. I've shipped games, and those that have been properly prepped (usually by me or another seller) arrive in the best of shape. Still, shit can happen (machine dropped from lift) and the insurance is a must.

    #8 4 years ago
    Quoted from lyonsden:

    Do not trust packing by these folks. To my understanding, Michelle coordinates the shippers, but the machine will be handled by at least three parties: 1. local pickup to terminal A, terminal A to terminal B, terminal B to destination. I've shipped games, and those that have been properly prepped (usually by me or another seller) arrive in the best of shape. Still, shit can happen (machine dropped from lift) and the insurance is a must.

    This is true. Your game will be in 3 different trucks, 2~ different buildings, handled by 3 or more (probably more) groups of workers.

    #9 4 years ago

    My pin OCD is way too high to even consider this.............Joey

    #10 4 years ago

    I purchased a TAFG from a Pinhead on the East coast! I live on the West coast! Sent$8200 for a sight unseen, refurbished,and shipped by NAVL to me! Thats DrWilly,and we never met!! Excellent pin,excellent deal! Follow your gut!!

    #11 4 years ago

    I have bought and sold several this way. Not a hitch. Usally the pins have been beter than I expected. Also a I have meet some great pinheads out of state and country that I have kept in touch with and look forward to dealing with the in the future. Good luck bud. Happy flipping

    #12 4 years ago

    I bought a game from a Pinsider sight unseen and it was a complete waste of money. $4500 into the drain is how mine went, routed to shit missing parts shorts and hacks all over the place not a single original board on the machine and it took months to get the damn thing. Just ask for multiple references and call them first, I didn't and got fucked hard. I'm sure the majority of pinside is upstanding super-awesome folks but the risk is a poser pretending to be one of them.

    #13 4 years ago

    This year I bought Tron Pro from a Pinsider based on the photos. It arrived perfectly as expected. I also bought my LOTR and NGG from a fellow on rec.pinball before Pinside was really around and those also arrived as expected.

    As a Canadian we generally have to buy our pins used from people in the US. Wiring down several thousand to a person you have never met can be a little scary at times (everytime ) as you never know if this is your turn to get burned. Thankfully I have not yet (with pins). All you can do is try to look for references, learn a bit about the person's history in the hobby and I like to have a 1 on 1 phone with the seller as well. If you spider senses ever tingle... walk away. Maybe you lost out on a good deal but the alternative would be worse.

    Sadly there are people that will outright scam you (I was scammed on a motorcycle crank from a guy in Ohio years ago) and others that will not be forthcoming with the defects or issues with machines. Leap of faith!

    mittens

    #14 4 years ago

    I tried to purchase a pin at Rocky Mountain Pinball Expo last year with a check, only because it was a Sunday and the bank was closed from a pinsider, he wouldn't take my money. So I turned around and wrote it to Team MezelMods, they were happy to take my check and my money, no questions asked.

    9 miles or 900, I always make the trip to make sure no one is scammed.

    #15 4 years ago

    I don't think it's too much to ask the Seller to blanket it and wrap it in the same way he would want it if he was receiving the pin

    I wouldn't count on STI to wrap it safely

    #16 4 years ago

    No. Without at least some pictures , buying anything would be foolish.

    #17 4 years ago

    Also depends on the pin and what you need to look for regarding common issues associated with a particular pin

    #18 4 years ago

    I've bought and sold unseen and luckily had not had issues. Check the insurance amount though, I believe the default is just $500 but you can buy higher insurance for little (~50$ or so) more

    #19 4 years ago

    It can certainly be done but precautions need to be taken. The less you know about pins and the pinsider the more precautions you need to take. I'd suggest posting a thread asking for a reference for the owner. Lots of pinsider have known each other for years. You may even find other pinsider who are familiar with the pin being sold.

    #20 4 years ago

    Photos,photos and more photos! You know you got a honest seller if he can and agrees to send over a video of him playing it. If your still concerned see if they mind a local pinsider to come look at it. The seller won't disagree unless there is something to hide.
    Mike

    #21 4 years ago

    I have several times. Do your homework. If the pinsider is established here, has others that can vouch for him or her, then I'd say it's a pretty safe venture. Then again, I always tend to trust people up front until I get burned. Having said this, I've gotten 5 pins this way, a few in Canada, a few in the States. No issues.

    #22 4 years ago

    I've purchased 80 pins off Pinsiders whom I didn'know and will recommend it. Pics and conversation are sufficient to make a judgement and I have been unpleasantly surprised only twice. Both times I deviated from this process.

    Most people don't go to the effort of calling, but I like to get a feeling for whom I am dealing. If you have reservations afterwards then don't make an offer.

    #23 4 years ago

    Buying from a Pinsider would be the least of my worries. Having a game shipped is a nightmare and a half. The time before last the game was damaged beyond repair and the last time about six weeks ago they shipped the wrong game to me and I had to go get it myself and I'm still fighting them over compensation for me having to do what they were paid for. Pinsider good. Shipping company's SUCK and that includes ALL of them!! The only way I'd do it again would be to have someone like Brian Suanders do it who CARES about the game. Shipping from NAVL/STI/Beltline......?? NEVER again !!

    John P. Dayhuff
    Battle Creek, MI.
    269-979-3836

    #24 4 years ago

    Is it considered ok to ask about a fellow Pinsider's reputation by name in a thread or should I check with him first?

    #25 4 years ago

    Numerous times but if I go to get a game I have a pre agreed price and sometimes it burns you.

    SST, was told it was a nice game, everything worked, just needed a shop. Cab was planked, onside of cab had terrible fade, numerous things did not work including the live fire range which through an error on boot, pf had chips in the clear. Total rip off.

    1st pinball magic unshopped and a nice machine that just needed a lot of love. Was very happy.

    Straight off route potc that I had shipped, was exactly as advertised.

    Als garage band that I just bought. Everything one could hope for from a seller. Super nice pin and was undersold plus came with a couple extras I wasn't expecting.

    Traded a cp for a rbion with a pinsider a few years back when they were equal value. We both met halfway. I drove home with a game that had major playfield wear at the scoop and magnet. Took a lot of work to fill the wood in and get it right.

    Earlier this year traded for a stargate. Same deal met half way. Asked if the pf and cab were planked, was told no they weren't, it was. WAs told everything worked, the game was unplayable. It was a wreck. Ended up driving even further to trade it back and lost 60-70 bucks on gas.

    My advice, pinside is not any better a place to buy than anywhere else. I just got a game shipped from someone well known in the hobby. Very specifically asked about the condition of the ramps. Was told they were perfect. 1 exit is blown out, 2 entrances are missing pieces. Always buy in person when possible and accept that when you pay someone from afar you have to cross your fingers that you don't get screwed.

    #26 4 years ago
    Quoted from investingdad:

    Is it considered ok to ask about a fellow Pinsider's reputation by name in a thread or should I check with him first?

    I would ask first. Of course if they say "NO!", then maybe there is something to worry about.

    #27 4 years ago

    I don't think it is required to ask. You are not slagging the guy, just asking if others have dealt with them and experience. No harm.

    -1
    #28 4 years ago

    Do not let the shipping company wrap or prep the machine! It's a mistake you will not forgive yourself or the shipper for. The seller must set the back box down on a packing pad,blanket or something soft. Then just have him wrap the machine with shrink wrap from HomeDepot. The game should be shipped on its legs. Use STI home delivery and you will get your game in the condition it shipped in. I have shipped and received many games this way with no problems. Do not waste your money on insurance through the shipper. Filing a claim through them is a waste of time and you wont get squat from them.

    #29 4 years ago

    Yes I have purchased and sold to Pinsiders. Some have a good reputation and makes it easier.

    #30 4 years ago

    I've purchased and sold a few never had an issue with any transaction ....i just recieved my 24 hrs pinball today from a pinsider.....deal went well.....

    #31 4 years ago
    Quoted from Warbleboopie:

    I bought a game from a Pinsider sight unseen and it was a complete waste of money. $4500 into the drain is how mine went, routed to shit missing parts shorts and hacks all over the place not a single original board on the machine and it took months to get the damn thing. Just ask for multiple references and call them first, I didn't and got fucked hard. I'm sure the majority of pinside is upstanding super-awesome folks but the risk is a poser pretending to be one of them.

    Hmmm. I'll venture a guess that you're talking about TZ that I sold you. I stand by the listing on here and what I described about it.

    routed? Yes, as described.
    Sight unseen? Plenty of pictures and description on my end, I covered all the bases.
    Months to get the damn thing? What was the hold up? I don't remember it taking too long.

    You stated you were new to pinball, this wasn't my fault. If the game was over your head or not to the condition of your liking, you should have let me known. That game was priced fair for the condition and I made no attempt to sugar coat or hide anything- IT PLAYED NICE- I put up 5 and a half billion on that game.

    I also don't think you got ''fucked hard'' and I will gladly buy that TZ back from you for what you paid.

    James

    #32 4 years ago

    and here, I have nothing to hide. It was a well documented thread by both me and pinside members.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-twilight-zone-4650-4651#post-2242215

    #33 4 years ago
    Quoted from investingdad:

    I got a freight estimate from Michelle, I'm assuming her folks will pack it correctly. Her estimate included insurance. Seller said he'd lay down the backbox on a blanket but all packing would be by Michelle's folks.

    This wound be a hard stop for me. It's not a criticism of the seller, maybe they aren't able to maneuver or wrap it. I use Michelle/STI exclusively and find their wrapping to be sub-par on their best day. I've had games arrive with one blanket over them and scratches from the walls of the trailer etc. When you are shipping it to yourself, you can't exactly refuse it. You just have to accept it and file a claim.

    Everything else seems fine. Pinsider, payment etc. As a buyer, I let the seller choose payment form (within reason). As a seller, I usually offer some kind of example of how I wrap games, send them a picture of a previous sale etc. If a seller tells me they can't or won't wrap the game properly, I prefer to thank them and decline.

    #34 4 years ago

    I bought a DESW sight unseen from J_Striker on Pinside. He blanket wrapped it and strapped it to a pallet for me and recommended that I use Sanya Daley at Inxpress shipping (sonya.daley@inxpress.com) for the shipping. All went well for me. The game arrived in a few days and was as described. The only issue I had was that the DMD had some issues, but J_Striker said the DMD was working 100% for him when it left and offered to sell me a used one for very little to help me out. I believe the DMD was a shipping fatality or just a coincidence and had already ordered a new one when the offer for the used one was made. Just keep in mind that things can happen in shipment that may not really be anyone's fault and it might cost you some money.

    I have bought a number of other machines sight unseen outside of Pinside. All have been pretty much as described. Some a little better and some a little worse, but never enough to really make much of a difference. The best advise is what RustyLizard said above "don't gamble what you can't afford to lose."

    #35 4 years ago
    Quoted from Wyopinball:

    I tried to purchase a pin at Rocky Mountain Pinball Expo last year with a check, only because it was a Sunday and the bank was closed from a pinsider, he wouldn't take my money. So I turned around and wrote it to Team MezelMods, they were happy to take my check and my money, no questions asked.

    I would never take a check from a stranger.

    I only partially trust PayPal, but have used it several times and never been burned.

    Money Orders, Cashier's checks, Direct Wire Transfers, and 100s are all rock solid.

    #36 4 years ago
    Quoted from Warbleboopie:

    I bought a game from a Pinsider sight unseen and it was a complete waste of money. $4500 into the drain is how mine went, routed to shit missing parts shorts and hacks all over the place not a single original board on the machine and it took months to get the damn thing. Just ask for multiple references and call them first, I didn't and got fucked hard. I'm sure the majority of pinside is upstanding super-awesome folks but the risk is a poser pretending to be one of them.

    If this was a $4500 TZ, you shouldn't have expected it to be perfect.

    #37 4 years ago

    Yes several times and only from pinsiders that have been on here for 3+ years and had plenty of forum posts i could read and gauge who/how they were, all worked out to be good experiences.

    #38 4 years ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    Do not let the shipping company wrap or prep the machine! It's a mistake you will not forgive yourself or the shipper for. The seller must set the back box down on a packing pad,blanket or something soft. Then just have him wrap the machine with shrink wrap from HomeDepot. The game should be shipped on its legs. Use STI home delivery and you will get your game in the condition it shipped in. I have shipped and received many games this way with no problems. Do not waste your money on insurance through the shipper. Filing a claim through them is a waste of time and you wont get squat from them.

    If you are buying a machine from a pinsider more than likely you are dealing with someone that has the same passion as you do and typically tends to treat people the way you would want to be treated. The only thing you can do is to ask about all of the defects and if there is any service prompts or any known issues. Take lots of pictures. I have yet to meet or deal with a pinsider that has not held up there end of the deal. I personally would not deal with anything having to do with an escrow account. You either trust someone or you don't. If you don't trust someone ask them for a reference. If they are reputable they should have someone that will vouch for them.

    As for shipping using NAVL you will be making a mistake if you pack it yourself. That is a big no no for NAVL and Michelle once told me they need to come to your home and do what's called an "Inventory" on what is being shipped. That means the shipper walks around the machine-unpacked and makes notes of condition before being packed. I used to pack all of my own machines and pack them like a cocoon with tons of blankets and wrap before NAVL even showed up. Well that is all good until you have a problem and need to file a claim.
    Now what I do is wait for NAVL to show up and I do a 360 degree video or take pictures of the game being prepped. NAVL usually has enough blankets and stretch film but on occasion I have had to use some of my extra blankets to pack properly. You can assist the guys packing and instruct them on how you want it done, but they must pack it themselves in case there is a potential claim. I still have them pack it like a cocoon with blankets and stretch film.

    -Also I recommend shipping with the legs on. Make sure the leg bolts are tightened properly to reduce the risk of cabinet damage.

    #39 4 years ago

    I don't agree that everyone's passion is equal here and that passion equals complete honesty. I bought only one game like that - from looking at pics and getting shipped. Condition was not exactly what I was expecting and immediately started having big issues. Granted I knew about some of the problems and should of seen the warning signs in the pics. I was just optimistic that game would just work and everything would work out. I suppose I may roll the dice again someday but try to be more cautious. It's hard when you are after a particular game and none come up for sale in your area for a very long time.

    #40 4 years ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    I don't agree that everyone's passion is equal here and that passion equals complete honesty. I bought only one game like that - from looking at pics and getting shipped. Condition was not exactly what I was expecting and immediately started having big issues. Granted I knew about some of the problems and should of seen the warning signs in the pics. I was just optimistic that game would just work and everything would work out. I suppose I may roll the dice again someday but try to be more cautious. It's hard when you are after a particular game and none come up for sale in your area for a very long time.

    Agree here. I've been on both sides of this before. As a seller, despite your best efforts at transparency, things can be there that you have overlooked or just didn't notice. In those cases, I try to keep a dialogue open as long as the buyer/seller wants to communicate.

    #41 4 years ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    I don't agree that everyone's passion is equal here and that passion equals complete honesty.

    No passion does not equal honesty, but it does make us similar in terms of expectations and how we treat people.

    Quoted from jawjaw:

    Granted I knew about some of the problems and should of seen the warning signs in the pics.

    Pictures speak volumes. There are often problems shipping games that are decades old and have thousands of parts that are "getting old". I have had machines show up with issues that were not issues when I pulled the trigger. When you move a machine there are lots of things that can occur and can cause issues from the vibration and movement. Now if the seller did not disclose a known issue or water damage, etc.- then that is not right. When you are buying a machine, especially older ones you are taking a risk and need to be comfortable taking a risk.

    #42 4 years ago

    As long as they are "verified" and maybe made a donation to pinside at one time or another; what could possibly go wrong?

    #43 4 years ago
    Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

    I have nothing to hide.

    Your description summed it up in first sentence
    "Players condition Twighlight Zone ,restore candidate"
    Having bought two machines from you I can say your descriptions are accurate.
    Remember you can't make everyone happy.
    Mike

    #44 4 years ago
    Quoted from investingdad:

    Is it considered ok to ask about a fellow Pinsider's reputation by name in a thread or should I check with him first?

    It's ok to do and I would recommend it. It's done on fairly often here on pinside. Seller should have no problem with it if they have a good rep. A good reference from multiple pinsiders will set you at ease. A bad reference will warn you and "crickets" will let you know to proceed with caution. You can never be faulted for protecting yourself.

    #45 4 years ago

    My HUO Elvis came from a Pinsider who had bought it and never even unwrapped it! He had found something he wanted more while waiting for it to arrive. So I got it from Texas by way of Maryland IIRC, still cocooned real snug and strapped to a pallet, none the worse for wear. Good thing it was all good, it could have been a nightmare had something been wrong with it! (Would I complain to him, then him to the first owner?)

    #46 4 years ago

    Was about to purchase from a pin sider who also advertised on Mister pinball. Sight unseen. Noticed a few others had dealings with that seller. PMed them. Responses were overwhelmingly negative, some even outright angry. Canceled deal. So, to answer the post: Nope, have never bought sight unseen although I was close . . .

    #47 4 years ago

    Yes. I've done well and not so well. Some people don't think of mentioning things like clearly outgassing displays ($180) or mismatched legs and blown welds on ramps ($ and a pain in the ass) but what are you gonna do. Just live by your own code and do the best you can and don't buy games sight unseen unless you think it's a good enough deal that you can live with any surprises. And if you sell someone a game and they aren't happy, try to make it right (I've been on the other side of this too).

    #48 4 years ago

    Quoted from Wyopinball:
    I tried to purchase a pin at Rocky Mountain Pinball Expo last year with a check, only because it was a Sunday and the bank was closed from a pinsider, he wouldn't take my money. So I turned around and wrote it to Team MezelMods, they were happy to take my check and my money, no questions asked.
    I would never take a check from a stranger.
    I only partially trust PayPal, but have used it several times and never been burned.
    Money Orders, Cashier's checks, Direct Wire Transfers, and 100s are all rock solid.

    Again, on a Sunday, I am not driving all over to find a money order, or a cashier check, the hotel of the convention was not offering those services. I am not dressed shitty, or my family, I drive a new rig and was pulling a trailer, I had almost a grand in cash, just wanted to pay the balance with a check.
    I am not complaining, just stating that it's always worth the trip, you can tell Lot meeting someone.

    #49 4 years ago

    I've bought 3 machines from Pinsiders, 2 without being able to see the game in person.

    1 worked out ok, although I am still finding issues I didn't remember knowing about beforehand (and I am not accusing any pinsider of hiding it, that was a very enjoyable experience all in all... I just wish I'd negotiated more

    1 is on its way but I have gotten thumbs up from other Pinsiders that it's going to work out great, and the pictures look good, and the price and description look legit.

    Ironically, the worst I ever got ripped off was I bought my first game from another pinsider who was real up front about the issues - I just had no idea at the time how significant the PF was to holding the price. (yes, that sounds pretty stupid to me too now) Should have offered a much, MUCH lower number. But I definitely learned from that experience!

    #50 4 years ago
    Quoted from Wyopinball:

    Quoted from Wyopinball:
    I tried to purchase a pin at Rocky Mountain Pinball Expo last year with a check, only because it was a Sunday and the bank was closed from a pinsider, he wouldn't take my money. So I turned around and wrote it to Team MezelMods, they were happy to take my check and my money, no questions asked.
    I would never take a check from a stranger.
    I only partially trust PayPal, but have used it several times and never been burned.
    Money Orders, Cashier's checks, Direct Wire Transfers, and 100s are all rock solid.
    Again, on a Sunday, I am not driving all over to find a money order, or a cashier check, the hotel of the convention was not offering those services. I am not dressed shitty, or my family, I drive a new rig and was pulling a trailer, I had almost a grand in cash, just wanted to pay the balance with a check.
    I am not complaining, just stating that it's always worth the trip, you can tell Lot meeting someone.

    I know this is OT from the thread purpose, but I have been absolutely blown away with how professional, organized, and unique an experience buying from Team Mezel is. They are SUPER on top of shipping, and have all these great personalized communications. The 'spirit' of those two just radiate everywhere.

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