By what standard are you defining "best?"

Might not be the same standard I'm using....

Well is it or isn't it? Don't leave us hanging!

Wow is that stupid. Theme is very important when it comes to pinball. Its part of the quality aspect of the game.

Yeah it tells me what I knew from the get go, good layout and decent gameplay but the theme sucks and the childish music/art, terrible looking toys especially the preteen girls cell phone turned people off the game. A good original theme would do just fine, there hasn't been one since the 90's. Well maybe BKSOR, but that didn't sell well due to the "world under the glass" fuckfacitis that is rampant within the pinball community. Its a great game.

I couldn't care less about that "world under glass" nonsense too. I also need to enquire about licensing the word "fuckfacitis" since it cracked me up ... between 3D printers and lots of off the shelf toys out there, anyone can make anything they want to put on a playfield. I've seen Twilight Zones that had so much crap spewed over the playfield that it was hard to identify it as a pinball machine .

I love BKSoR ... I have an LE ... it needs more modes/ancillary stuff though. It's not a very deep game (not like BK or BK2K were ... but I'd expect more from a pin being released in the 21st century). The thing that keeps me coming back to it is that it is frigging brutally difficult.

The whole "let's remove the upper playfield on the Pro version" decision was horrible. You almost have to code up two separate games (seems that the upper playfield was an afterthought). I wish they would have picked one layout to keep the overall base game the same and run with that (kind of like what they did with Deadpool). One single layout could have freed up the time to make the game as deep as possible (my preference would have been to make the upper playfield more useful, but can also see the benefits of it not being there).

Still, the fact that it was a (for the most part) unlicensed theme is what more than likely turned more people away from it. I think the only thing that saved it among your average collector was the topper (by this time next week, you could probably get a fully restored BK2K and BK for the price of one of those toppers ).

In my worthless opinion, BKSoR was Stern's second worse penny pinch decision last decade. Star Wars LE was the absolute worst ... everything from the powder coat they used on the armor to the stupid decision to *not* make a backglass that all LEs have was something between pathetic and sickening when it comes to Stern being cheap ... the white stuff under the armor is frigging unlaminated cardboard!!!!! I learned that cleaning off some fingerprints!. They are full of shit when they say the licensing costs were too high too. It was an epic cash grab and nothing more. I'm just glad I nabbed a used one before they rebounded in price (basically paid less than an NiB Premium from a disgruntled owner). I love that game as well.

I can't wait to see what Steve Ritchie does with a JJP budget ... I don't think he is going to disappoint .

I like this thread, it got me. However if I started it, it would have been shut down for trolling and I wouldve been eject from the site for 3 days or something like that.

LOLOLOL, theme can't save a boring ruleset, theme can't save a bad layout. People buying on theme rather than gameplay are stupid. "Hey its got generic art package form a thing I like, here's my money. No I've never seen or played it, here's my money". That is stupid.

Well guys its 75%+ of the business these days.
I mean I just read a thread with 50 y/o dudes creaming their cargo shirts over He-Man instabuys.

Coming from a pinside apprentice you sound very wise lol

Why is it stupid? I own a Willy Wonka. I'm a huge Willy Wonka fan. I love all the artwork, the call-outs, the theme integration.

The fact that the game is also fun to play is an added bonus. I'd likely still own it even if it were lesser so.

Conversely, this is precisely why I will NEVER own a Pirates of the Caribbean. I LOATHE the franchise. I cannot stand it. There's no way I could ever get past the fact that I so much dislike the POTC franchise I'd never be able to enjoy the pin, no matter how fun the gameplay may be.

The theme of the game is just as important to the overall consideration of the game as anything else. Even more so in my case.

You're entitled to your opinion. Mine differs.

Lmfao

TNA is another good example of game with an original theme (which is quite simple), has no toys (or ramps), has pretty basic artwork….yet the game is a lot of fun regardless. Good pinball is good pinball - licensed content is not required.

Yes and no. There was some build up to TNA. It had the luxury of starting as a home-brew game. The buzz built up over time and it wasn't until there was a lot of it that Spooky reached out to build it. At that point there was a bunch of hype created. All of that took time. And TNA was like what? 500 units total?

Not bashing TNA. I really like the game...more with friends than solo. But the theme never sold me...the light show, the rules, the throw back feel to old Bally games is what makes it a great game...not the theme.

why is it stupid? that its fun is a freaking bonus to you. That's why its stupid. You might not play a PoTC because you don't like the theme, so what? You also aren't going to buy one. But buying a 8k+ toy with zero knowledge of if its fun is stupidity defined. Here's 8K or more, I hope i like this. STUPID.

lol yeah, i know more about this place than most. the fact I didn't bother with logging in does not mean I haven't watched things here.

Agree that BKSOR's faults aren't the lack of licensed assets, but instead are a stripped playfield and boring rules. The knight toy is pretty cool but it looks like all the BOM went there; not much else on the pro playfield. Having only one main multiball and goofy super jackpot rules puts this game a few notches below most other Sterns for me.

I think you missed my point. I probably should have said "more fun than expected."

I like playing all pinball machines. But I consider some of them to be more fun than others, from a game play standpoint. Most modern pinball machines provide some level of enjoyable play, POTC included. But I cannot stand that theme. I hate the way it looks. I hate the way it sounds. So I won't own it, no matter how much the rest of the word says it's a fun pin to play.

Here's another example: my STTNG. Again, gameplay is good; I have fun playing it. The theme elevates it even more for me, since I'm a fan of the franchise. I like the way it looks. I like the way it sounds. So I own it.

But either way, why the hell do you care to call my (or anyone else's, for that matter) collecting habits stupid? It really shouldn't matter to you. You do you. I could buy a brand new pin and leave it in the crate forever. People do it all the time. Whether or not your opinion is that it's stupid really doesn't matter. As long as you're not doing things that you yourself consider to be stupid, then you're OK. If you start doing things that you yourself consider to be stupid, I could see why you might be upset. Other that that, you can kindly keep you opinions about others' collection behavior right where they belong: in your own head.

you can do whatever stupid things you want, it does not stop it from being stupid.

Well, they’ll be stupid if done to or with you, but not to someone else.

Unless they’re silly things. Those I will not tolerate.

The answer is yes.

I didn't say it could, I said theme is important to the overall appeal. If someone does buy a game based only on theme is just as foolish as buying a game with a theme they hate but its plays well. As for ur little made up qoute which is ridiculous, there nothing left to say.

Damn it

A big NO. You all keep buying each time the price is raised. They will raise each model release until the buying stops or goes down.

I can think of three right off the top of my head , Big Bang Bar, Midevil Madness and how bout the Monster Bash you had listed a while back for ....I think it was 20 gran

Those games are over 20 years old. Nice try.

It’s 2021. People don’t want NEW unlicensed games.

Did you really need me to tell you that?

C'mon man!

Try and buy one right now they will cost you more then a NIB and I guess the question would be why........? Highly desirable by many people in the market....come up with the right Idea that people like and it sells ....that is capitolism 101

Right.

Or just license a popular movie or rock band and watch the money roll in virtually risk free.

Nah…let’s go with retro atomic zombies to make a bunch of people who say they’ll buy an unlicensed game but won’t happy.

It’s capitalism 101!!!

Dammit dude!! I was like, “ not gweempose !! He knows better!!” Haha

The issue with RAZA is that It wasn't built. Ripping people off is the best way for a company to make people unhappy.

At some point in our lives the market is going to shift to unlicensed games whatever you like it or not.

You really want a barbie table?

The issue with licensing is that is it highly dependent on the company gambling on the longevity of the assets.

What maybe popular now could very well end up dead in the water later on.

Suffice it to say companies should start now getting their feet wet and start looking at orginal content.

Getting it done now would give an edge when the enviable comes around.

Yes capitalism is a double edge sword and it follows this bit

"He who lives by the sword will die by the sword"

If a company lives by the licensing it will die by it.

Guess what? When those were new they didn’t sell well.

Okay this is great.

Doesn't matter, the games sell while the license is popular. If the license goes to hell later it'll just drive up demand for the next licensed game as people dump the old one.

BTW monster bash is licensed from Universal.

Why would prices go down for a manufactured good that has an ever increasing cost and demand inside an economy with strong inflation?

Same reasons new and used prices are insane right now for just about every single product everywhere.

IF there is a PERFECT storm next year, prices may not actually go UP for pinball. This addresses the OP's question about a peak? It's possible but HIGHLY unlikely that prices for any good made right now will stay the same for the coming years.

But, the only time that the RETAIL price is actually going to go down is when a company is approaching bankruptcy and liquidation plans. This will happen eventually for all pinball companies but not for a while. Best we can hope for as fans are no more price increases or cost cutting using crap materials.

It's just not possible to mass produce a game for less than 5 grand AND also make a profit with a product that does not feel like a cheap toy.

People are always wanting things to be cheaper. Careful what you wish for... If that actually happens, it will be a sad day for the pinball companies that slash their prices or produce total crap toys.

Other possible way to cut price is to cut cut cut costs/overhead.... Unfortunately, that cheaper product produced will not feel like a "commercial location pinball". It's also getting really difficult to find labor these days for so many reasons. Companies have to pay higher wages and higher insurance premiums than ever before.

No matter how much you want all these "pinball price topics" to be about PINBALL, it's nothing more than coincidence that they are on a pinball site.

You don’t understand this market or manufacturing AT ALL.

Yup. Which makes him PERFECT for pinside.

If pinside ran stern they’d be tits up in a week.

Had a thought-what if we have been living in an underappreciated, undervalued hobby for decades now? Have we been spoiled by the lack of interest in the hobby. We lived through the glory days when machines were sold to operators-then slowly the middle class realized machines are great for the home as well. This explosion in interest has caused the ripple effect in the pinball world and now this resurgence is causing major pinflation. Are these machines really worth that much? For me sometimes yes and sometimes no. I do think some pinball machines are a work of art and an engineering marvel. Compared to all the consumer junk being sold I still think pinball machines are a true value and a work of art. Still tough to justify the rapid jump in pricing(tough pill to swallow). Case in point I am interested in the Big Lebowski but not sure I want to spend over 11k on one. Is it really worth that much(eye of the beholder)? I also saw an ad for a Godzilla Pro for $6800? I thought to myself-Damn that's the price of what a Premium should be selling for? Is the Pro worth that much or are there other machines with more bang for your buck out there? Just like houses, cars, and everything else right now-I feel extremely out of touch.

Bla

Nope

Not sure about peaking pinball prices but that thought really hit home when I looked at my neighbour's immaculate 2005, 22 foot Citation trailer for sale the other day...for $4500. It's hard to imagine that any of my comparatively tiny pins was worth as much or more than that big beautiful fully loaded trailer!

The way prices are going, it seems like I could store a couple pins inside that trailer, park it for a year, then sell the pins and wind up with a free trailer...or...sell the trailer and only be able to buy half a pin!?

I think we've finally hit the peak. My local Southern California marketplace is seeing so many ads of available pins at ridiculous prices, but very few "Sale Pending" tags. Lots of pin ads that have been up for weeks now, too. Anyone else finding this?

Yep my wishlist has ads going on over a month that I’ve been watching but I wasn’t going to be the first to point it out. Thanks for braving it for us.
The balloon has not popped but it’s making that high pitched whine when you pull it tight and slowly let the air out.

Games are sitting on my local facebook marketplace longer for the last month and not selling.
Not crazy stupid prices, stuff like a a Judge Dredd $3500, No Fear $3500, a $5200 Iron Man….theres even been some price drops on games that have been on there for a couple weeks. Compare this to a few months ago when almost everything disappeared the same day it was listed. So things appear to be slowing down a bit, at least near me.

Take a look at the evidence. You can see it in the used car market too, prices are no longer going up. I'm not saying they're coming down, but I am calling the top now. Mark this post

Only time shall tell.

This appears to be the trend in Central PA also. I don't know if we are "at the top" but I do think things are slowing down as far as some of the craziness goes.

It's summer now and sales are typically slower...$20k by Christmas.

Covid fears going, going…

Folks traveling who’ve been cooped up two years. Last thing they want is more stuff for the home. New buyers aren’t flooding this hobby like last two years.

Add to that prices on living expenses are waaaay up; not directly affecting those of us here with incomes, but trickle up affect is strong.

I’m on the road 2 1/2 hours everyday. 6 days a week. Last three months traffic has passed 2019 congestion. More campers, canoes, out of state plates than ever up here. Monies being spent, just not on pins.

10 years from now when pins are $20k NIB people will look back to now and think, "Wow they were so cheap in 2022!" lol

Or...summer. Happens every single year, people are enjoying other hobbies outdoors and prices go down a touch.

It surprises me that we seem to forget that every year.