So about 2 months ago, I sent a money order to someone who had a Big Game pf listed on Mr. Pinball. He confirmed within days of me sending it that he received the payment and promised that it would be sent out the next Monday. That Monday came and went. We have been in semi regular email contact, but I have yet to receive the pf, and usually get a barrage of horrible news from the guy's personal life that he uses as excuses for why he hasn't shipped my pf along with a reassurance that he'll try to get it shipped out the next week.

This has put a really bad taste in my mouth about sending a money order for anything in the future. Why wouldn't a seller accept PayPal, especially if I agree to pay a premium to cover fees, unless they don't want the buyer to have any recourse? Had he accepted the payment through PayPal, I could have lodged a complaint and probably reversed the charges through my CC company. But what can I do since I've sent a money order?

The cost was low, so I took the risk. I understand that people can have bad things happen in their life, but is that a reason to screw someone over?

So I feel like I've either been scammed, or the guy just can't prioritize fulfilling his end of the deal.

Any advice on how to handle this? Short of sharing the seller's info (as he seems to have numerous things listed for sale) so others can avoid him, I don't know what I can do. What's a reasonable amount of time to wait before doing that?

Thanks,
Jim

Edit: Since we're now at 3 months since the seller confirmed receipt of my payment with no action on his part, I'm trying to get him blacklisted anywhere I can. Here's his info as it is displayed on Mr. Pinball. I'm not posting this information so that Pinsiders can harass him (please don't since nothing good will come of it), but merely so they can avoid purchasing anything from him.

Vince Dooley
[email protected]
2160 Athens Hwy.
Jefferson, GA. 30549

_{Post edited by winteriscoming : Updated with Seller Info}

In the seller's defense, he just has a large listing on Mr. Pinball, that included the Big Game PF, that was submitted in April. It's not like I've seen him actively posting other items.

I do want the PF, but the original cost was supposed to include shipping. I'd be letting the guy off the hook if I'm willing to pay additional for shipping.

I've sent kind of a last ditch effort email to the seller indicating that we've passed the 2 month mark from when he confirmed that the payment was received. We'll see what excuse he has next.

He's located in Jefferson, Ga. 30549.

But honestly, getting a third party involved would really make me feel like I'm putting someone out. We're not talking about a high dollar value here. The agreed price including shipping was $100 for an unpopulated PF that's maybe rated a 6 to replace my unusable PF that deserves a 0 rating. I don't really want to have to put more money into getting it, but on the other hand I'd have to start all over trying to find another PF and would have to pay more than it might cost to have someone else pick this one up and ship it to me. I'm definitely not going to offer to give the seller additional money.

If anyone local to the seller is willing, I would definitely appreciate any help you can give.

Thanks,
Jim

I've suggested to him that if he can't get this shipped out, I'd like a refund, but haven't gotten a response back...

I see some very good advice here. Thanks to all who have contributed so far. We'll see how this plays out.

I'm going to give the guy a couple of days to respond to my latest email before threatening a mail fraud claim and blacklisting him wherever I can.

Thanks,
Jim

I definitely still have my half of the money order, and we've only communicated through email, including the agreed-upon price and the various timelines he's given, so I have all of that still.

We're talking about $100 dollars though, so if I have to take this guy to small claims court, even if he had to pay all the court fees, I'd be out more than $100 worth of my time and I'm supposing unless I was able to summon him to IN, then I'd have to travel to GA. But imagine how much of a hassle it would be for the seller... maybe it would be more worth his time if he would just ship it...

Thanks,
Jim

So swampfire put me in touch with someone who lives near the seller and claims to have purchased something from him last night.

I'm pissed to learn that the guy is making time to sell to other people and hasn't shipped my PF. The seller is apparently ignoring my emails.

Thanks to everyone commenting and giving advice so far.

Thanks,
Jim

There may be a glimmer of hope. The person swampfire put me in contact with verified that he has worked with the seller and recently bought something. He verified the address I sent the money order to, as well.

I left the seller a voicemail on the number he has on his Mr. Pinball listing and sent a follow-up email indicating that I want to send someone local to pick up the PF for me and hope that he's willing to work with me on that.

At the end of the day, I want the PF so I can finally play my Big Game, so I'm approaching it in a nice-guy, here's an easy way out method before devolving into legal threats and blacklistings.

Thanks to all for the help so far, and big thanks to swampfire!

Jim

I may just be naive, but the seller has really gone out of his way to relatively keep in touch through infrequent emails (though I haven't heard back from him since starting this thread). I have to think if he was just in it for the scam, then he would have denied ever receiving the money order. I didn't have tracking on it or anything.

Furthermore, I had contacted him long before agreeing to buy the Big Game PF about another PF that he sent me a lot of pictures for. After months, I asked about the other PF when inquiring about the Big Game one, and he told me he had sold it already. I would think if he was scamming, he'd offer the other PF I was interested in for another $100 which I would have jumped on in a heartbeat.

I really want to believe that the guy is inherently good, and maybe has fallen on some bad times. I'm not saying that's an excuse for not making good on the deal yet, but it allows me to hold out hope that I'll eventually get what I want.

Let's put a little bit of optimism out there!

Thanks,
Jim

Thanks for the insult! That's super helpful! I decided not to take the bait and deleted my insult back to you.

I was merely stating that I'm staying positive at the moment in light of the recent contact I made with someone local to the seller, and I'm trying the high road approach before doing something else which will likely not result in me getting the PF.

Thanks,
Jim

I learned about winning, I mean losing, at roulette my first time at a casino... nevermore!

How about door #3?... I'm not going to mail money orders anymore. Definitely learned that lesson. I'm not going to give the seller any more money, but I'm going to pursue getting my PF until I'm tired of doing so. Then I'll pursue legal action, blacklisting, and fraud claims until I get tired of that.

My game plan when I went was to make $5 bets and always bet on the same color, and double up the previous bet if I lost. If memory serves, I was up $300 at one point... then I was in the hole... went to the ATM a few times... left unhappy...

In case your reading comprehension is lacking, I never said the seller's actions were excusable. If you're able, you might read through what I said again and see that I in fact stated that in spite of what I had observed about the seller so far that he doesn't have an excuse for not making good on the deal.

In no way do I plan to let the seller get away with it. I'm merely trying one approach right now.

Thanks,
Jim

Is your comprehension fine? I am not making an excuse for him, and you just quoted me saying "not saying that's an excuse..." I'm stating that based on my observations of his behavior, I have a hard time believing his ultimate goal is to scam. He's put way more work into it than would have been necessary. I also threw a bit of positivity into the universe with a hope that the guy is inherently good.

You're also indicating that I'm letting him get away with this, and that's not the plan.

Any constructive advice on how you'd handle a situation like this in order to not let the seller get away with it?

Man, you're making the theme of poor reading comprehension an easy one to keep going... I AM pursuing an option with a local person! They aren't at my command, however, so I can't simply say, "Go knock this guy's door down and get my PF!" I have to graciously accept their offer to help in a way they're comfortable offering.

And for now, how about play it safe and don't send money to anyone in Jefferson, GA?

Exactly! I'm being patient and making calculated moves.

Assume they're bad until proven otherwise!

Me, too! Pinsiders are a good bunch of people!

Hillarious!

But you've got a 100% chance of winning almost 50% of the time! You could make a pretty sweet living playing roulette! Maybe I'll head to the casino this weekend and make my $100 back and get enough to buy a nice HUO Big Game...

For the record, I knew you were joking! Still not a bad plan for getting $100 bucks back though as long as I'm willing to lose $100 more...

Just for anyone curious, I'll be taking Dbaum88 up on his offer if I don't hear back from the seller by Monday.

Thanks to everyone who's contributed so far!

Jim

Ha, I wondered if anyone would find that. I was going to wait before posting that info, but it is publicly available...

At any rate, I do have proof that the seller hasn't shipped it because he's admitted as much in his emails to me. I have proof that I purchased the money order because I have my half of it still.

I want to give a big shoutout to Dbaum88 for agreeing to call the seller and write a demand letter! I'm taking him up on this offer and see if we can get this seller to quit stringing me along.

For anyone interested to know, my offer to the seller to have someone pick up the pf has apparently been ignored. He replied back to me without even acknowledging the offer, and promised he would ship last week, and apologized for his poor service. I followed up a few times last week to get and update and tracking info, and got no replies...

Thanks,
Jim

For real... why does he even bother continuing to promise times he's going to ship? I suppose that works more in my favor than hearing nothing back from the seller at all. At least every time he promises to ship, I have evidence in my email that he hasn't done it to date.

Alright, one more big shout-out to Georgia attorney David, aka Pinsider Dbaum88, aka I AM THE LAW!

He managed to get this deadbeat seller on the phone and put the fear of God, or at least The Law, in him!

The seller was apparently running through his laundry list of excuses for David, but David shut that down and said the time for excuses is up! David told him if he didn't make good on the $100 pf that he sold me, then he was going to have to deal with thousands in legal fees when he gets sued.

Thanks a ton, David! Let's hope that does it!

Thanks,
Jim

There is no game, and he was told over the phone what was posted here, so I don't see any harm in this thread.

Maybe everyone who considers 100 as milk money can donate to my impending Big Game pf replacement fund for when I have to find another source for one.

Give me some credit! I am invested in getting this resolved. I've invested $100!

Ok, so I'm a bit conflicted.

I've got a line on someone in my own state selling two semi-populated Big Game PFs and a set of plastics. I can pick the PF I want, one is supposed to be pretty nice compared to the other, and get the plastics set, one of which I actually need, for what I consider a decent price. Though he's still too far to be a convenient drive, and shipping will be less than fuel costs, so I'm still looking at a remote transaction. He's willing to take PayPal, though, so I'd have protection.

I'm not giving up on making the previous seller make good and I do still want to pursue making him at least give me a refund if he's not going to ship the PF, but I also don't want to miss the opportunity to get a replacement PF now that I've found a source for another.

Previously I wasn't seeing any other options for a replacement PF, so the scammer could hold it hostage and I'd be more inclined to work with him since he was the only one who had what I needed.

Best case scenario here is that I get the PF from the new seller and get a refund from the previous seller.

Next best, but less than ideal would be that I get the PF from the new seller and then the first seller decides to finally ship instead of giving a refund. In this case I could hang the lesser one on the wall or sell to someone else who needs it in the future.

Next worse would be that I get the PF from the other seller and nothing ends up getting resolved with the first seller. At least I've have a PF, though.

Worst case is the new seller tries to screw me over, too, but then I'd have PayPal and credit card protection to be able to get my money back, so besides time wasted, I'd come out ok.

Again, not giving up on making the scammer pay, and I do still appreciate any help towards getting that resolved.

I really just want to play this game!

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Jim

Not yet...

Updated first post with seller info.

I have ordered a PF from someone else, and guess what? I've got a tracking number 3 days after sending my payment! That seems more normal to me... I also negotiated so that I could do a normal payment through PayPal so that I'd have recourse to raise a dispute and have buyer protection. A lot of sellers request that you send the money as a "gift" and I think this eliminates much of buyer protection aspect of it, though you may still be able to dispute the charge on your CC if you paid that way, not sure.

I'm not planning to give up and let the scammer keep my money. I'll post back with any updates on that front.

Thanks,
Jim

So, Daina at Mr. Pinball is defending Vince by saying:

"BTW, Vince has been buying and selling on our website for over 14 years. We
haven't had one complaint about him until yours. We have had a couple of
positive statements about him."

Daina explained how to get someone on the blacklist:
"The Mr. Pinball Blacklist has two sections:
1. Certified Crooks--These are people who have two or more people that
have been taken by them, or they have a legal judgement against them.
2. Probably Crooks--These are people who have pending legal action against
them, or have taken one person for a significant amount.

The Blacklist is generally not for those that have shipped items that are not
as described or for those that are just slow."

I'm not sure how far we have to take the "legal action" to qualify... We'll see.

_{Post edited by winteriscoming : Removed "She"... it occured to me that the name is Daina, not Diana... so not sure which gender I should be assigning... it is MR Pinball...}

They've actually got a rating system on Mr. Pinball that I had no idea about, and here's Vince's entry:
http://user.xmission.com/~daina/tpcr/ratings_detail.cgi?name_last=dooley&name_first=vince&address_state=unitedstates,+georgia&;

You're too kind! Sure, if you're willing. It could help since you're a witness to what's going on and you've confirmed my story by talking to the seller. Maybe by having you involved, it counts as "legal action." It might at least be nice to have Vince blacklisted since he doesn't seem to want to work towards any solution...

In my mind a seller who wanted to avoid legal action once the threat has been made would be giving frequent updates on what he's planning to do to make it right, but Vince has done none of this.

I'm happy to report that my second transaction went smoothly and I now have a decent Big Game playfield in my possession. Scammer's not off the hook simply because I bought one from someone else, though!

No news from me...

Ha! Funny idea, but not something I'd do.

I don't need Pinsiders to donate money, but I appreciate the offer.

I was hoping legal action would motivate the scammer, but Dbaum88 likey got busy with real life and paying gigs, so I don't want to keep pestering him. I'll gladly take his help (or anyone's) as he's willing to give it, but I'm in no huge rush. Though the $100 would help with my T-REX mod research and development...

Thanks! We'll see if that does anything, but it looks like they're not after small fries...

Postal Inspection Service.png

I vetted the name against public records, and Dooley is associated with property taxes at the mailing address I sent the payment to. In fact, I think it's Vince's father who owns the property. The guy I'm dealing with appears to be a Vince Dooley, but not the coach.

By the way, it's scary the kinds of things that are available from public records online... You can pretty well figure out family connections, addresses and phone numbers for land lines with someone's name and location (town is ideal, but state would probably do in a pinch). I wasn't comfortable with the results when I did a similar search on myself.

No, it's not the coach or his family as far as I can tell. There's not a rich guy conspiracy going on. If you look up tax records on the mailing address, the house is in the name of Horace Dooley and according to public records, he has a son named Vince.

Thanks for your help!

Nothing much. David was awesome and sent a demand letter, but not sure what can happen after that without wasting too much of his time.

Let's finish up this story:

It was a $100 lesson learned for me not to pay for anything remotely except through a standard PayPal purchase. A seller unwilling to accept a standard PayPal payment doesn't get my money. This experience has also taught me that Postal Money Orders are NOT a safe means of sending money. There is no simple means of filing a dispute to keep from getting screwed over, let alone recoup the stolen money.

Thanks to all who offered support, and a special big thanks to Dbaum88 for doing everything he did!