(Topic ID: 193913)

Haunted House Sound works- Then Slowly cuts out

By bdPinball

4 years ago


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  • 31 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by SpotsGotcha
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 4 years ago

Bought a Haunted House, thank God it at least works.

Thing is, you'll start a game, sound works 100%. As the ball goes along, first you'll loose the background tune, and eventually it'll just drop the other sounds as well. Then, if you turn the game off and back on, the sound will be find, and the process will repeat.

One of the pop bumpers is out, I'm guessing it could be one of those pop bumper boards? Geez.. This thing had 3 of those other boards replaced before i got it, the receipt, as well as three other pop bumper PCBs were in a bag along with the manuals and such. At least the guy took good care of it, and apparently NEVER played it, since he was upset about that pop bumper not working.

Maybe I could try swapping out this pop bumper board with a known good one? What sort of design flaw causes these to go out like this? Or better yet- WHY have a special pop bumper board at all!? Maybe I can borrow one out of Night Moves.. Night Moves, Circus, and Monte Carlo. My collection of non-working Gottliebs. Alas, I WILL figure this out in the end!

-Brian

#2 4 years ago

If the game is cold, and you play really quickly, you can get in a game before the sound starts it's slow decline..

Caps? None of them are visibly buldged, or outright popped, but, seems like this might be an easy fix - Hope hope hope..

-Brian

#3 4 years ago

If it were me I'd start with re-capping and checking cold solder joints. Caps do not have to be bulging or popped to be bad. To be properly tested you would have to use an esr meter.
-Mike

#4 4 years ago

I'll be watching closely and hoping to gain some insight as well! Fingers crossed you find a quick resolution.

#5 4 years ago

I had a sound board resetting issue on my haunted house. The start tune would play for every sound. Burnt/ tarnished connectors were the cause.

I'd verify you have good power when it acts up. Clean edge connectors and reseat, etc.

#6 4 years ago

Interesting. I cleaned the connectors on the sound card, A6 J1? and what I gather is the other side, A3-J5, both of which had what seemed to be some corrosion. Not bad, but the eraser got pretty black on both accounts. Okay, well, it seems to have improved the situation. NOW, the game will start with full sound, and sometimes 1/2 way through a ball, the background sound will cut out. The individual sounds will continue to play, and those never seem to stop now. At the end of one of the balls that the background music has stopped, when it kicks out the ball for the next ball in play, the background music will start again. Very Odd.. I can certainly live with this more than sound cutting out completely!

What makes that background music cut out like that? Also-

How do you clean inside the plugs? I cleaned the boards' contacts with eraser, but inside the plugs is impossible to get at with any eraser I have!

-Brian

#7 4 years ago

I never saw anyone clean in the connector, if it's bad it will be a re-pin job and new connector.
-Mike

#8 4 years ago

I have all the stuff to re-pin Bally & Williams - The 156s, and the .10s connectors, housings, keys, and crimper. I guess I'll have to dive into these. They don't seem as easy though- It doesn't seem like it's going to be possible to trim down an Edge connector the way I do with the 156 plugs. Too long? Just trim it down a little!

#9 4 years ago

Unfortunately, the cleaning didn't really solve the problem. It seemed like it played a little better for a while, and I had a string of games where the sound didn't cut out as badly, but I left the game on for a few hours, and all the while it was doing it's attract mode thing. It'd play the organ every once in a while, which I find is GREAT addition to my arcade, between that, and Black Knight Hollering about how he's going to play you, it makes for great 80s ambiance.

How about your (Mr. Grizlyrig) suggestion about the caps? There look to be 6 or 8 caps on this PCB- Definitely something I can handle with my Aoyue!

-Brian

#10 4 years ago

I've had a very similar problem with my recently-acquired Black Hole. Background sound cuts in and out, while the sound effects work consistently. I'm in the middle of attempting to fix it at the moment. I would strongly suggest re-pinning the connectors. These games use edge connectors (as opposed to the trifurcon type) which are available at GPE: https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=77

I highly recommend getting new connector housings for any of the connectors you're planning on replacing. The IDC pins *can* be extracted, but it's tricky. Sometimes they come right out, other times it's 5+ minutes twisting, pulling, cussing, etc until it comes out. It's worth the $1-$1.50 per housing to avoid the headaches, in my opinion. Make sure to buy connector pins for both wire gauges too--most will be 22-26 gauge, but there are some thicker wires that will need the 18-20 gauge pins. Pretty much everything you'll need should be at GPE.

It probably wouldn't hurt to change out those electrolytic caps on the sound board as well (which are also available at GPE). I should also add that as I've been re-pinning the connectors, i found the wire that carries 'Sound Line 1' from the driver board to the sound board looked like it had been pulled out and poorly reinstalled in the idc connector, so I'm hoping that's what the problem was. Still not familiar enough with this system to know for sure, but it seems plausible enough...

Good luck!

#11 4 years ago

Have you checked voltages on sound board power supply? Time to re-cap? Have you checked volume pot to see if its holding onto a certain ohms or if its decreasing?
-Mike

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#12 4 years ago

Re-pinning these old gottlieb pins is I guess a necessity. With as many of them I have sitting around waiting to be fixed. I noticed one of the connectors in my Monaco GP had the problem where the corner of the connector breaks off, and there is nothing sandwiching the connector onto the board. Heck, I'm surprised it works as well as it does! On the Haunted House, besides the Sound, it has mechanical problems with a couple of out/up kickers. The Gate from where you shoot the ball doesn't seem to land correctly, and lets the ball jump back through the gate.

I fixed a pop bumper on Haunted House the thing by taking a paritcular resistor off another one of those pop bumper controllers, this one was broken in half, so I took one off another one that was bad for some other reasons. Does anyone actually repair these pop bumper boards or is it just too easy to shell out $18 and get a new one?

More Gottliebs to fix!

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from bdPinball:

Does anyone actually repair these pop bumper boards or is it just too easy to shell out $18 and get a new one?

I like the new ones with test switch and pretty led lights myself. Fixing them is only for experience of learning to do it IMO. Just buy new if you don't want to deal with it.
-Mike

#14 4 years ago

I fixed/upgraded all the pop bumper boards on mine. Clay's guide has a run-down of all the recommended upgrades/parts suggested to fix em up. Might be $10-15 worth of caps, resistors, etc to do up all the pop bumper boards (Black Hole has 6, not sure about Haunted House), or $20 or so apiece for new replacement boards. Guess it depends what your time is worth to you. I would definitely stock up on edge connector pins/housings in any case, the system 80 games are notorious for connector issues...

#15 4 years ago

Hell, all Pinballs are known for connector issues! Whats the first rule of fixing pins? "It's the connector-connector-connectors. If it still has problems, check the connector." with the corollary, "It's always the connector"

Which is why I was wondering if I could test that Q59 circuit somehow on that MonteCarlo, to determine if it's actually Q59 that's gone bonkers, OR if it's the wiring.

-Brian

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

I fixed/upgraded all the pop bumper boards on mine. Clay's guide has a run-down of all the recommended upgrades/parts suggested to fix em up. Might be $10-15 worth of caps, resistors, etc to do up all the pop bumper boards (Black Hole has 6, not sure about Haunted House), or $20 or so apiece for new replacement boards. Guess it depends what your time is worth to you. I would definitely stock up on edge connector pins/housings in any case, the system 80 games are notorious for connector issues...

Whats with the Bifurcated vs. standard type of these pins? What is the point of splitting them like that? It's not like the Trifurcon pins where there are three sides to grab on...

-Brian

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from Grizlyrig:

Have you checked voltages on sound board power supply? Time to re-cap? Have you checked volume pot to see if its holding onto a certain ohms or if its decreasing?
-Mike

The Sound Board has it's own power supply? Geez. They really did things oddly in these Gottlieb games! ALL the other manufacturers always have all the power done on one board, and then divvy up that power to the various boards that need it. What is with this? More things to fail? Hahaha..

But No, I didn't check it's voltages. I guess that's the next thing to do! It's funny, because I have a whole string of Gottlieb games I'm trying to fix, or keep running- Haunted House, Monte Carlo, Night Moves, and Circus (Not to mention my Big Hurt, which I'm praying nothign goes wrong with bewcaseu I can't take ONE MORE Premier game going down the tubes on me at this point!!! What a Circus!! If I make/keep all these running I'll definitely be a master of Gottlieb by the time Im done!

-Brian

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from bdPinball:

Whats with the Bifurcated vs. standard type of these pins? What is the point of splitting them like that? It's not like the Trifurcon pins where there are three sides to grab on...
-Brian

Not sure what the advantage is of the split in the connector pins...the bifurcated pins are the type used on the double-sided interconnect harness between the CPU and driver board and for the black connector at the bottom of the driver board. I think Big Daddy Enterprises is the only place that carries them at the moment...but not only do they only sell them by the hundred, they also have a high minimum order threshold.

Otherwise, the pins i linked to will work fine for the rest of the edge connectors, as far as i know. Just remember to get both wire gauge sizes (and plenty of housings for the connectors you intend to replace). Have you already done the ground mods on your system 80 games?

#19 4 years ago

Bifurcated contacts are available for the single sided edge connectors - part number 08-50-0116.
The bifurcated contacts are touted to more easily conform to rough contact areas.
Do they really? Heck if I know.

#21 4 years ago

Thanks Chris, Yes, I have that printed out. That, Clay's Gottlieb Guide, and the mysterious Gottlieb system 80 manual that nobody is supposed to have. I'm digging through all of it!

Still no luck with my sound card cutting out after a game or two.

-Brian

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from bdPinball:

Thanks Chris, Yes, I have that printed out. That, Clay's Gottlieb Guide, and the mysterious Gottlieb system 80 manual that nobody is supposed to have. I'm digging through all of it!
Still no luck with my sound card cutting out after a game or two.
-Brian

I THINK I fixed the sound issue in Haunted House. That was the major problem that this machine still had. Now it's a couple of coils acting a little sluggish, and the gate at the top, where the all first exists from the Ball shooter trough, it bounces, then should settle down and drop onto the playfield, instead it's bouncing back off the bumper too fast, the gate doesn't catch it, and the ball goes back down the shooter Ramp. (That was a tough explanation!) but anyway, I'm just glad to have permanent sound! Amazing what a handfull of caps can do for a game!!

BadCaps (resized).jpg

#23 4 years ago

Blah. No, Not fixed. It's still the same thing. The sound works for a while when you start a game, then, after a while, the background music cuts out, and then after a little more time, ALL the sound cuts out. If you end your ball before all the sound cuts out, then the background sound will start again on the next ball. If the sound cuts out all thew way, the only way to get it to come back on is to shut the game off, and turn it back on again.

I'm at a loss. There aren't any test points defined on either the sound board A6, OR the aux power board A7. Is it possible/worthwhile to test the sound board at the point that it goes out?

help me obiwan Gottlieb You're my only hope!

-Brian

#24 4 years ago

If the connectors are good and you don't have an o'scope to see where it is cutting out -- freeze spray can be your best friend. When it cuts out - hit individual components with freeze spray to see who the culprit is. This doesn't always work - but sometimes it's a miracle worker when looking for bad parts.

#25 4 years ago

Those boards are sometimes boogers to debug.
Once the problem manifests, you could probe the various signals to ferret out what has failed. It's going to be a tough slog.

G-P-E , regarding freeze spray...can ordinary keyboard cleaner air blaster turned upside-down be used? I'm always hesitant to do this since it leaves liquid for a brief time before it freezes and then evaporates. I've never used it on a board...just mylar removal. Just wondering.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#26 4 years ago

Never tried keyboard cleaner. Just the freeze spray that's intended for this. Not sure if there are any 'added ingredients' that can short things out.

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

If the connectors are good and you don't have an o'scope to see where it is cutting out -- freeze spray can be your best friend. When it cuts out - hit individual components with freeze spray to see who the culprit is. This doesn't always work - but sometimes it's a miracle worker when looking for bad parts.

I don't have an Oscilloscope.. I have a logic probe! I'm not much for knowing how to use it though.. I've used it a couple of times with the test chips, like with Marco's test chip, to look at various chips downstream, and see what is, or isn't working correctly, but knowing what "Normal" values would be to compare against I haven't a clue.

About the spray- I'm willing to give that a try- So you wait for the problem to manifest, and then what? Cooling an individual IC can bring it back to reality?

One problem I have with Gottlieb/Premier products is there aren't as many test points as there are on Williams and Bally equipment. If I test the voltage at a specific TP, and it says X, I know if the number reads or doesn't read what it's supposed to. I'd like to see somehow if the problem is power related, Maybe the power stops working for the board when it's gone into "Non-working" mode- But how do I test the voltages on the pins - or even on the cables! I have a sound issue with a Monte Carlo (Another system 80b I think) and that one the sound NEVER works! But if it's turned on, I don't want to just unplug the cable from the sound card to test for voltages.. These are so frustrating. If I knew for SURE it was the board, I'd go ahead and pay whatever and get another one- but like with the individual components, seems like you can swap and swap and maybe not actually find the exact card that that is the culprit!

-Brian

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from bdPinball:

...
About the spray- I'm willing to give that a try- So you wait for the problem to manifest, and then what? Cooling an individual IC can bring it back to reality?
...
-Brian

Based on your description of it slowly cutting out after being on for a while is typical of an over heating part.

Freeze mist sometimes does make a part come back to life - but only until it warms right back up again a few minutes later. But at least it gives you a place to start looking.

Another thing - heat sink parts such as the voltage regulators. The old heat sink grease tends to turn to crap after several years. Sometimes just separating the part from the heat sink, cleaning with alcohol and applying fresh heat sink compound can help.

#29 4 years ago

You are in good hands already Brian. Those sound/speech boards aren't an easy fix when there is a problem with them. I would like to add a few things which are easy to check.

- Are the speakers still okay? In our Mars God of War one of the speakers had a burned coil causing similar issues due to overlaoding the audio amp. Their resistance should be around 8 Ohms each.

- Replace the 47nF input capacitors for the LM379S audio amp. Any DC level at the input might saturate the amp. It is a $1 fix, if it doesn't change anything it is not a great loss. When I am servicing those boards I Always replace the tantalum cap C37 for a fresh one.

- There are a few High Ohm resistors around the LM379 (R18, R21). Sometimes, you see the brownish compound resistors over there which can run out of their specifications over the years. An easy check with a multimeter.

- OpAmp U22 (741) might be a cause also; you can give it a treatment with Freeze Spray like Ed suggested already.

Although the problem is probably somewhere in the analog section......if you want to run a testrom at your sound speech board to check the digital part, send me a PM.

Good luck!

Marco

1 week later
#30 4 years ago

Thanks Ed, and Marco! I'll have to score a can of that Freeze stuff. Ed, do you carry that?

I need to get the whole spread of Edge connectors. It seems like more and more I'm running into games that have these nasty old edge connectors, you can look in the connector and see all sorts of corrosion that is impossible to get at. Heck, it looks to me like the corrsion on those is often times worse than the corrosion that one finds on the .156 & .10 connectors!

Thanks again Gentlemen, it seems like the problem with HH is getting worse. Now, the audio will only play for just a minute or two before it craps out. If I were going to replace the boards - Actually I'd rather fix them, I get a kick out of finding one of these problems and bringing them back to life - but if I were going to replace the boards, what? Start with the smaller power board, and see if that fixes the problem, and then graduate to the (what I gather would be) a more expensive entire sound board? I've seen these boards they have displayed on Youtube and elsewhere where they have a talking HH. I'd like that.. Or maybe even the Multi-ball version! but, alas, I think I'll make the base unit work first.

-Brian

2 years later
#31 1 year ago

I am dealing with a sound problem on my Haunted House also. Did away with all the old boards and replaced with PI-80 from FLIPPP. All works on the machine except the sound, which played for awhile then not. I pulled and reseated the edge connectors, etc. so I am going through some of the same diagnostics as you. Did you ever resolve this issue? If so, how?

I was considering my next step being to replace the sound board and aux power supply with a new board from FLIPPP but with the virus stopping or delaying all shipments I am trying to make due. Saw a FLIPPP sound board on EBAY at 2X price of FLIPPP from BigDaddy. May have to bite the financial bullet and head that direction. Before I do that though I will need to check speakers and power.

Any updated advice on your experience is appreciated..

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