(Topic ID: 147412)

Haunted House Pop Bumper Failure

By vindic8r

8 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 26 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by vindic8r
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 8 years ago

It seems that every time I fix a problem in my HH, another one manifests. In today's episode, the pop bumper just above the upper left flipper on the main playfield has stopped working. I pulled the PBDB that drives it, 4A8, and removed the Lamda transistor from the circuit, thinking that was the culprit. Alas, it tests fine on my multimeter.

I checked continuity from the coil lead to the pin on connector 4A8J1 and that's fine, too.

All of the other pop bumpers are working.

What should I look for next?

#3 8 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Did you test the pop bumper pcb in another position?

Brilliant! Thx for the tip. I'll give that a try and see what happens.

#7 8 years ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

Each pop bumper has a fuse on the bottom side of the playfield. Is the fuse for that particular coil blown?

Thanks, but nope. F11 tested fine with my meter.

Quoted from CNKay:

Cold solder joints on the header pins. If your missing the 5v on the board no pop.

Didn't check that yet. I'll do so as soon as I can get back in front of the game. Hopefully, later this afternoon.

#8 8 years ago

Got a break from the holiday hoopla and did some more testing. Swapping boards 4A8 and 1A8 still left the pop bumper not working, while the bumper at 1A8 continued to work fine. So it's not the PBDB.

Then I noticed that the plastic supporting one of the leads of the coil had broken, so the whole terminal was floating free and looked like a short waiting to happen. So I painstakingly removed and replaced the coil with a new A-1496, per the manual. Powering it up, it still doesn't work.

Any ideas on what I should try next?

#10 8 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

So, with the game started, and DVM in hand, check a good pop bumper, you should have power on both sides of the coil ( maybe around 32vdc if I remember). Then, check the bad pop. If you have no power, it still may be a fuse problem. If you have power on only one side, you have an open coil ( unlikely since you just replaced it). If you have power on both sides, then it is a connection problem to the pop bumper driver board.
Make the voltage checks and report back what you find.

Tested voltage at both sides of the coils at 4A8, 1A8, 2A8:
1A8 (on main playfield): 37.2vdc
4A8 (also on main playfield, the non-working pop bumper): 0.7vdc
2A8 (upper playfield): 25.8vdc

I also tested voltage on both sides of fuses F10 and F11, just in case it was useful. They were both at 30vdc consistently.

So does this seem like a connection issue at PBDB 4A8?

#12 8 years ago
Quoted from Flippers_com:

Have you done the recommended Gottlieb Ground Upgrades? One of the grounds that fails connects the pop bumper boards to the power supply ground...
http://flippers.com/gottlieb_ground_cures.html#System80 (note #3!)

Yep. I bought the game with all of them done except the aux. lamp driver, which I did myself. The MPU is a Ni-Wumpf, so I assume it doesn't need the grounding mod, correct?

Quoted from Flippers_com:

If that didn't fix the problem have you swapped the pop bumper control boards to see if the problem follows the board or is just at the one spot?

I did try the swap, yes. The problem stayed with the pop bumper in question.

Quoted from Flippers_com:

If you did swap the pop bumper control boards and the problem remains at the original pop, then check that the case of the transistor on the pop bumper board shows the solenoid voltage (around 24-30VDC) relative to ground WHILE the game is on (flippers alive).

Got it. Let me do some testing with the transistor. Thanks for the direction!

#13 8 years ago

Well, it looks like fuse F4 blew, which drives the solonoids. Coincidence? I wonder. I'm out of 8A Slo-Blo's, so this is on hold until my order comes in with more of them.

#15 8 years ago

New fuse in place at F4, and we're back in business. Hot damn, Marco shipped fast, even with the holiday!

Quoted from Flippers_com:

If you did swap the pop bumper control boards and the problem remains at the original pop, then check that the case of the transistor on the pop bumper board shows the solenoid voltage (around 24-30VDC) relative to ground WHILE the game is on (flippers alive).

I'm getting 0.7VDC on the transistor case at 4A8, 25-34VDC on the three other transistors, in game.

Quoted from Flippers_com:

If you have voltage at the transistor metal case, have you tried momentarily shorting the case to the cabinet ground (copper strip on bottom board). Pop should fire. If it does then you have power to the coil and it reaches the pop bumper control board.

I tried this and the pop still didn't fire.

Quoted from Flippers_com:

Still not popping? Have you checked the apron (pop bumper) switch?

Hmm - so since switch #44 controls both pop bumpers on the main playfield, wouldn't they both be affected if there was an issue with it? Happy to dig into it, though. What would I check at the switch with my meter?

Quoted from CactusJack:

So, replace the fuse and also replace the 4.7ufd cap on the pop bumper board. Maybe someone else can tell you the position of the right cap.

Since the issue doesn't travel with the board, could it still be an issue with a bad cap?

#18 8 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Yes, it could still be the cap. They did flat out fail all the time but became flakey.

Ok, good to know. Thanks! So there are four caps on the PBDB: C1-C4. I've placed an order for a handful of each type, which should hopefully be coming later this week. Anyone have ideas which one I should start with? If I had to guess, I'd say its C3, since it is the only one that actually is in circuit with one of the IC's (Z1), at least that's how I'm reading this schematic.

Quoted from CactusJack:

The commonality of switch #44 is only about scoring points. The sling shots, as well as the pop bumpers are all " self controlled " once power is enabled to them. Their physical motion hits another leaf switch which scores the points.

Makes sense. I see the two switches now. So the switch I want to check is the one that is triggered when the pop bumper skirt is hit (it sits above the other, scoring switch). Is that right?

#20 8 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

So, replace the fuse and also replace the 4.7ufd cap on the pop bumper board. Maybe someone else can tell you the position of the right cap.
Then, you should be good to go.

I replaced the fuse and then I replaced the 4.7 mfd cap at C3 on the PBDB driving the pop that's not popping. I even made sure to connect the cap with the polarity reversed, as noted in the service bulletin that jmountjoy111 so kindly brought my attention to. Alas, the pop still ain't popping. Checking voltage at pin 5 on 4A8J1 gives me 5.01V, so that's good. I'm also getting ~34V on the lug of the offending pop's coil. That seems good too, yes? Just for grins, I manually triggered the scoring switch just below it, and it fires just fine.

So I have a friend who really thinks its the connector. Anyone here agree? If so, I need to get the right tool to remove the wires and reseat them in the connector terminal.

Any thoughts or suggestions here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

#22 8 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Do you have 32v on both sides of the coil? You should.

I'm getting 37.5v on both lugs of the coil for the pop in question. That's the same reading that I get on the lugs of one of the working pops.

#24 8 years ago
Quoted from keeko99:

I had the same problem with one of my HH bumpers. Turned out to be too much crud and crap in the metal dish underneath, where white stick thing moves around and activates the relay switch. Once it was all cleaned up it works like a dream.

That makes sense and thanks for the tip. Alas, when I manually fire the switch for the pop, it still doesn't fire. I'm starting to think it could be the switch. How would I test that?

1 week later
#26 8 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Take a small screw driver and short across the two solder lugs. Be careful not to touch anything else, like the coil lugs or the light socket lugs.

I carefully shorted the switch and it still didn't fire. I'm going to try and check the wiring to the switch. Continuity tests along the wires should help me get this sorted.

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