(Topic ID: 143518)

Haunted House Club: The Beautiful Beast

By davebart5

6 years ago

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#878 1 year ago

Finally got my Haunted House back up and running except for sound, which is intermittent at best. Pulled edge connectors, cleaned and replaced. Nothing seemed to work. I first attempted to bring it back using old boards and then replacements but ended up pulling them all and using PI-80 which solved a ton of issues and gave me fantastic diagnostic help to move forward but the sound issue is persistent and I am reaching out for ideas to debug. If you can point me to a good thread or drop some responses I'd appreciate it.

Figuring my next move was to replace the old sound board but with the new FLIPPP version but trying to avoid that if possible. New speech sounds neat but I really just want my classic sound back.

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#880 1 year ago

All sound. Worked for a bit once I got PI-80 installed and then it stopped. Seemed to kick in occasionally and now nothing. Last time it did work the sound was all the way up and I simply reached in and lowered the volume but it reacted like an old volume control that was crackling with a bad connection. That is my current lead that I am chasing down.

Have original sound board but I did replace the aux sound power supply with a new one.

Checked the config. I only have the CLASSIC sound on. The background sound I tried enabling it to see if it made a difference. It didn't so I reset it back to disabled.

Hoping board still ok since sound did work for a bit..

#882 1 year ago

Checked speaker connects. All looks good there. No hum at all. Dead silence.
Not sure if PI-80 Sound Test works for Haunted House but I get no tones on any of those tests.
Unfortunate because right after installing PI-80 board and at startup the sound was great.
Visually checked all fuses for burnout. Nothing. Next step I can meter them just to be sure.

Will dive behind glass again. Hit reset on sound board. Unplug connectors. Replug and try again shortly.

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#883 1 year ago

Unplugged connectors from Sound Card and Aux Power to Sound. Reseeded them. All look good to me.
Hit test button on sound card. Nothing. Powered game back up. Nothing.
Sound card bad? As you can see I have already replaced the Aux Power.
Given where I am replacing the sound card entirely may be the best avenue, but I hate doing that when there are no obvious burnouts that I see on the card itself.

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#885 1 year ago

I believe the new PI-80 board removes all needs for ground mods since those were geared toward the old controller and driver cards.
The only ground connection is on the new aux power board for sound (see upper left) and it is grounded. I have a local guy that can test and repair boards at ArcadeRescue911.com. Will give him a buzz.

Will also be testing the fuses again with my meter to make sure they are good. Seen too many posts where it still came back to a fuse that supposedly looked good. Maybe wishful thinking but since no sound is coming out there may be hope in that avenue.

#889 1 year ago

Thanks. That gives me something to check on tonight.
Appreciate the guidance thus far. As we all know these are frustratingly satisfying journeys.
Happy on overall progress from where I started with a Dead HH.. Now at least it is somewhat playable but sound is essential.
After I resolve sound it will be on to Pop Bumpers. They are all dead as well.

Much appreciated! Updates later this evening.

#890 1 year ago

Checking A6P1 Connections on Sound Card from top to bottom.
These are the meter readings

From Top to Bottom referencing 2nd picture

#892 1 year ago
Quoted from radial_head:

Not quite sure I understand... You've listed 11 voltages and there's 12 pins on that connector. I think I'm a little lost on your description of which connector you're testing. For reference: The sound card connector should be A6P1 and the S/S PSU connector should be A7P1. Please refer to them in that way moving forward.

Fixed now

#894 1 year ago
Quoted from radial_head:

Hm, well, those are some wild voltages. I notice for the most part (with the exception of Pin 3 normally indicating -12v and the last 3 pins not really having much interaction with +5v of U16...) they are pretty consistently double double what you should be seeing (or I guess if you consider double -12v being 12v it checks out but PEMDAS reigns supreme).
Sure your meter is set to the correct DC voltage readings and your ground is proper? Anybody else want to chime in and tell me I'm talking out of my ass?

Yea too much bourbon. Had on AC.
Readings are corrected now.

#895 1 year ago

Hmm. Pulling the connector, shoving the meter probes into connector and then putting back must have done something.
I have sound. Then started to play game. Sound began to crackle but not consistent sound. I adjusted volume. No sound.

Sounds like something between board and speakers in wiring. Would you agree?

#897 1 year ago
Quoted from radial_head:

I'm on my third glass of scotch over here so I feel you.
Yea, like I've been saying, I bet it's a connector issue. When I looked closer at the schematic, the volume put is the last thing the sound hits before it his the speaker. Maybe try re-soldering the contacts on the volume pot and spraying it with deoxit? Also maybe try reseating any connectors between A6P1 and the volume pot and seeing what happens.

Wanted to check the potentiometer. Am I correct that if I touch the middle and either outer it should show a resistance AND if I dial the potentiometer one way or the other it should increase or decrease? With meter set on RX10k and dialing the OHMS ADJ down I get a reading of a little under 3 ohms. I am using an old analog so ballparking it around 2.7. Adjusting the volume does nothing to the reading. This reading is consistent no matter what prongs I touch.

Would a conclusion be that the base resistance of the wire is not being affected by the potentiometer but it should be? Wondering if it is bad.

#908 1 year ago
Quoted from radial_head:

Regularly people will test to see if potentiometers are logarithmic or linear by connecting the middle and one of the outer tabs with one prong of the DMM and the last outer tab with another prong of the DMM. If you turn the knob, you should see a difference. If you put a prong to both of the outer tabs, you should she the total resistance of the potentiometer no matter what position its in.
So I cross reference Black Hole and Haunted House together pretty frequently (I have both) and the audio section is where things start to differ ever so slightly. However, both potentiometers are supposed to be 100ohms (though the stock wattage of each resistor is questionable). The x10k meter is maybe a little high for a 100ohm resistor so that might make the reading not change all that much. Check it on the 100 ohm setting.

Update. Since I am in restoration mode, so to speak, I went ahead and got two replacement speakers and 4 Pop Bumper replacement cards (separate task). Once they arrive I will be diving in. I see no option other than clipping the wire ties and tracing the speaker wires as you suggested early on. I have tried to stay away from cutting the wire bundles loose but I think that is the best approach. Have you ever tried to spot check a set of wires without cutting all the wire ties? I suspect there is a way for me to spot check the wire itself along the path and then strategically cut the ties loose. Any thoughts on this are appreciated as always.

#911 1 year ago
Quoted from radial_head:

I've had luck with just thumbing through the wire bundles and keeping track of my wire colors. They should all be properly labeled and their placement should be described pretty well in the manual. I keep a little print out of the color coding taped on the inside of my games : )
I would highly recommend taking the volume pot out of the machine and giving it a good spray of deoxit and popping it back in (never do this inside of a game) or just buying a new pot (cheaper than buying deoxit).

OK.. I replaced all pop bumper cards with new Rottendog versions at $17/ea. When pulling the old boards there was a whitish residue on the screws and around the boards. Wonder what this may be from? At least with test switches and an LED on the cards I can immediately tell they are not getting power. Bundle cutting will begin since my ability to finger through them is almost non existent since there are Zip Ties are about every few inches so it is a very tight bundle, but I did spot three damaged wires that look like they may have gotten some heat at some point, but they do not appear to be broken. When I get back to this on Sunday, I will start clipping and tracing wires. It almost feels like if I am in for a penny I am in for a pound, meaning that I will start tracing pop bumper wires but since bundle will be cut ALL wires will be inspected. I have been truly avoiding this. I wonder if there are complete sets of replacement harnesses that could be purchased just to save time spot checking and simply hardening the entire machine by making sure the wire harnesses are as new as the boards they connect and since I am dealing with both pop bumper boards and sound it may be inevitable. Will try to be strategic this first go at it but I may just jump in for all its worth if I keep playing "whack a mole". Building all new harnesses from scratch is a daunting task that will challenge my abilities, to be honest.

#914 1 year ago
Quoted from radial_head:

Ooooooo additionally it could be that there is something wrong with your AC voltage going into the pop bumpers too, but if I recall correctly, the upstairs and downstairs pop bumpers run on 24Vac and the Main playfield runs on 38Vac... seems unlikely that they’d all be bad. Also not sure how those Rottendog Test LEDs work, but I’m assuming if the board was working, even if the AC voltages were bad, the led would still light when you hit the test button.

Huge thanks for your assistance. The Pascal board lights all look good and everything else is working, other than sound and pop bumpers, so I am assuming all is good there. Yea the harness whining was only temporary. Knew I would be diving into the wiring runs for both the pop bumpers and speakers sooner or later. Will carve out some time tonight to do some voltage checks from voltage into board through to pop bumper boards. I know I see a few wires frayed above the bottom left pop bumper board. I am going to resolve pop bumpers first and then get back to sound. I will be ordering a new potentiometer anyway, just to eliminate that from the equation. Given the way it sounded weird when I was adjusting volume, when sound did work, I suspect it is defective or at least ready for a new replacement. Will update later on tonight.

#916 1 year ago

Blowin up the fibre connection but..
pics 1- 5 show back of cabinet with PI-80 board, the original sound card and new aux power for sound cards. The Power LEDs on PI-80 indicate power and cpu light is flashing. Indicators look good. Bottom orange LED is a bit dimmer. Not sure brightness indicates anything though.

Rest of pics show each connection to the board. Pascal boards are very well documented on the board. Connectors show their original value but they all connect directly into one board eliminating the power, controller and driver boards. I still have to use the original sound and aux power for sound cards from original game. The pain in the ass connector between driver board and controller board was eliminated. Should note the large connectors normally on the right side of the old controller board are the ones without tags.. they are inverted to connect to board.

The original power board is still hanging in the cabinet but it is not connected to anything. Just haven't worried about pulling it yet.
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#917 1 year ago
Quoted from radial_head:

Even if they did make new wiring harnesses, you wouldn't want to get a whole new harness for something like this. There are about 4 million tabs to solder and unsolder, 900 connectors to repin, and a million headaches and bottles of beer waiting for you. The only time you'd want a full wire harness change is if you have BIG issues with your wires (say a family of mice had their way with them for 10 years in a barn somewhere). Not sure about that white powder (didn't get left behind by some hooligan now did it?) but I would be impressed if it was battery corrosion somehow and if it was, I think you'd have some bigger problems on your hands. Could have been from leaky caps maybe, but I'd also be impressed about that too. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Let me preface this: I don't have a Haunted House at my apartment, just a Black Hole right now but the way I understand it, they are pretty similar under the hood so let me break this down:
•Does the Pascal board work? That means you're getting proper input voltages from the bridge rectifiers and transformers (I think there should be a 5vdc+ LED indicator somewhere on the board). Is there proper 5vdc present on the pascal board? (Yes? Go to next step, No? check your bridge rectifiers, but like, if the answer is no your game probably wouldn't have started)
•Check continuity from Pin 18 of A1J6 and pin 5 of one of the pop bumper connectors. Any buzz? (Yes? Skip to bottom, No? go to next step)
•On Black Hole, the pop bumpers get powered (I think, please someone correct me if I'm wrong I'm just putting stuff together from the schematic and a different game) all the pop bumpers get power from pin 18 from connector A1J6. There should be a hub (or maybe a few) that connects all the 5vdc+ from the pop bumpers to Pin 18 of A1J6 and I'm assuming it's towards the top of the playfield (or rather, the side of the playfield near the shooter lane curve and upstairs playfield). Make sure that there is continuity from that hub and Pin 18 of A1J6 to this hub. See if you see any stray Blue Slate Slate wires (the color code for the 5vdc+ on the pop bumpers).
•Pin 5 of every pop bumper connector (at least on the upper playfield, unsure about the lower playfield) should have continuity. Test from board to board. If they all have continuity, they are connected properly to the hub.
Check those things and get back to me. If there's continuity, you've got me stumped too other than somehwere along the line, maybe there's a stray wire that's grounding the whole lot. I should have some alone time to go to my parents house where Haunted House is sitting, unplugged and unloved, and snap some pictures for you.

Well now.. I pulled the A1J6 connector. Uploading pictures. May have found my pop bumper problem.. No dangling wire.. weird. It appears to be missing the power wire.

Nevermind.. just because a pin is in there doesnt mean a wire was supposed to go in it. ... All wires look complete along harness
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#919 1 year ago
Quoted from radial_head:

You said that there were some frayed/burnt wires? Not seeing them.

Aw.. Sorry.. thought we were following up on the A1J6 connector testing. Here are the frayed wires..

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#921 1 year ago
Quoted from radial_head:

It seems that someone has already repined your A1J6 and A1J5, Triple check that all those wires are making proper contact (to me they look to be crimped a little too early and are missing the wire tubing and just double crimped onto the stranded wire, which I try to avoid).
Please do the continuity test I walked you through my previous posts.

Will do. Given all 4 pop bumpers are not working and none of them are showing a lit LED on the cards, would that direct me toward power being the likely culprit. It does not appear these are wired in sequence making them vulnerable to a single point of failure other than power. If all 4 are out then either all the connectors are poorly crimped or power supplied to all 4 is the root cause. Will do a full check on connectors tonight... assuming my wife does not pull my chain to watch another romantic comedy or murder mystery tonight.

The continuity check will help direct me further.

Thanks again for your help.

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