Code couldn't save this one for me. If I had to hear Seek and Destroy stuck in a loop one more time, I might have actually destroyed it.

TWD. Played a Pro on release and cancelled my LE pre order because it was so bad. 1 year later ordered a premium with the current code and it's now one of my favourite games.

How about every Stern in the last 5 years?

I was really excited for AC/DC, but when it was revealed I wasn't digging it - and then didn't think much of it when I played it...but when that big code update hit that added/changed a ton of stuff, it completely changed my opinion of it - I fell in love and ordered a Premium!

I also ordered a BDK in 2010 when the long awaited code update hit, as I felt like it made the game much more fun and complete.

How does Met premium blow Met pro out of the water? They're about even in my opinion if not pro has the edge.

TWD and Hobbit for me. Some of my favorite pins now

TWD for sure

Color changing light show, color changing inserts, snake jaw, rising cross, hammer and coffin lock. This info has been available for what, 4 years now?

Pro has zero edge. Prem/LE has more stuff and it's all awesome.

Prem has spinners for Met too

Doesn't blow the pro away.

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It's a substantially cooler game. Pro is solid, but why not go all the way with one of Borg and Lyman's best!? Pro only has an edge if you don't like super cool shit!

I agree. TWD. I thought it was crap... And then Lyman did his thing. He took a brutal game I hated and turned it into a brutal game that rocks.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned X-Men yet.

My vote is for WOZ. Didn't care for it early on and it really took some time but the code made this a pretty cool game.

TWD is the epitome of this thread's title.

I agree with TWD. First time I played it I was yawning, then it just kept getting better and better. When it first came out the code was awful. Was it the worst ever for an initial release?

Agreed. This is hands down the biggest 180 flip I've ever experienced. From total turd to seriously almost my favorite pin.

Hey Rare, I seriously hope GB will end up the same story too. Here's hoping.

Why? It was a steaming pile of shit upon release and is now a polished turd.

Aw c'mon man. It's not that bad.
I'm seriously having a LOT of fun with it, and in the end, that's all I have to go on.

To be honest I have *nothing* against Met premium. I think it's great. However by extension that does not mean Met pro is not also great. The post above said Premium blows the pro out of the water which it *clearly* does not. It's in the same ballpark much like Tron LE / pro. They're both about the same.

You can say the hammer ball lock is great but my friend got one and spent an eternity trying to get it to work, had to fix/repair the subway endlessly and he bought it new. I'm pretty sure he'd rather have had the pro. I bet the spinners, cross and lights are nice but can be lived without. Pro has better captive ball and the snake honestly I don't feel myself missing the variant snake.

Substantially they are identical twins with maybe one slightly better but also substantially more money.

While I've had and appreciate premium and LE pins for their better somewhat features they also cost more.

For the cost of a STLE and GBLE with modsb(both great) I can have GB, ST, and Met pro with more mods. With the premium it's probably 3:4 ratio meaning every three premium pins you can get an extra pro.

Also since I've played very little of Met premium I don't really miss the spinners etc..

It's not like there is a giant upper PF missing it's the same game. It's like a great car vs the same car with more options.

Finally I think the pro flows great, no ball lock no snake whatnot it's just pure simple great fun.

For me it was Avengers LE. When I first got it I had to make tons of adjustments and the code was not polished. Now that it is dialed in and code is refined it has really become a fun game.

I will take my X-MEN over your Family Guy any day of the week. X-MEN has been a fantastic game throughout the code updates-different strokes for different folks. No pinball machine deserves to be called a turd. X-MEN is the full package with third flipper, spinning magnetic disk, pop-up Nightcrawlers, Magneto and Wolverine magnets, moving ice ramp, and a great layout that flows well. The mini-playfield on Family Guy is really pretty comical and I think it is lame.

XM did get substantially better but IMO suffers from what I call 'good enough' meaning people accept it as done. If this was not Stern and they did not also have Tron, IM, Met, TWD, GB, ACDC, SM, ST in their portfolio they probably have finished or improved the code.

XM came out a bit before Woz during that time XM had a few code updates while Woz had many. XM got substantially better but when it was utter shit it's not hard to get substantially better.

I'm not pointing fingers it is what it is, Stern doesn't go the extra mile unless it's Lyman. They're the 'good enough' company. Good enough and they do make great games but they don't give much thought if the code is great, just so long as it keeps score and has mildly ok rules and such they know some people will keep the pin for a while and move on. Maybe the don't want to make every game keepers if every game was fantastic it's harder to get rid of and that'd lessen demand for the next 'number 1' pin.

I'm enjoying it more than anything in my collection at the moment. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

I just don't like super unreliable shit. Last night on a friends Premium I lit coffin lock 3, drilled the goofy metal cube, the hammer failed to capture my ball, drained, game over. I will stick with the pro + total light package + spinners. Other stuff is just bling, not pinball.

One other thing I can't stand is that the hammer obstructs the view of the ball when anticipating a drop catch with the left flipper.

Pro is the way to go

Hammer is big & clunky, Coffin lock is un-reliable, and it kills flow

good to hear. I got a huo hulk I'm picking up at york. Been waiting for to pick this bad boy up for over a month now.time has been moving like this.....tick..........................toc.................tick.......................tock.......................tic......................toc.

There is a whole page of quotes about simplicity and how there is beauty in simplicity sometime adding on a mechanism for the sake of adding a mechanism does not make a better pin. Example BG ramp on TWD or moving ramp on XMLE
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You're criticizing a game you clearly haven't played much or understand. You're comparing a Borg/Waison game to a Lawlor/Johnson. Have you even played Stewie Multiball? Trying to play both fields at the same time and alternate jackpots between them is brilliant and fun.

SM. It was terrible unfinished code upon release. It also shipped with posts in the lowest positions and you could play unfinished code all day! I hated it. A year and a half later the code was solid and raising the posts all the way helped tremendously. It is now a top 3 game for me.

Setting 91 now (was 89). Change it and all your problems go away.

For me the game was Met. Didn't like it at all when it first came out. Not sure which code update it was but when CIU was added is when I started liking the game and is when I bought mine.

I might be the only person on earth that loved TWD from the beginning. Haha

You are not by any means. It's just that some pinsiders love making up narratives to account for their historical actions.

You're wrong. Not often, but in this case....yeah. It's no more a "polished turd" than Transformers, or GoT. The shots are challenging (even more so if you leave Wolverine in his original place), and it has a good risk/reward mechanic, PLUS Danger Room is one of the most fun mini/full wizard modes I've ever played.

The sounds are a steaming pile for the most part. I think we can all agree on that, but the actual code and rules? Come on. It's not even REMOTELY awful....unlike WWE (which is crippled by the layout as well), or IJ4. It's challenging and deep, and forces the player to use the entire playfield, not just hammer the same shot over and over, and deliberately rewards you for delaying the start of Magneto until you have more X-Men collected.

*Edit* I do agree that Family Guy is the better game, ruleswise. I used to HATE that mini-playfield until I started playing games that limited the time up there. With that one change it goes from being painfully wood-chopping to a challenge.

OK, I'll give you that...it's better than WWE and IJ4. *handshake*

(But I'd rather just not play any of them lol)

I don't recall it being terrible...and SM's level of "unfinished" was different than what we see today as unfinished. If I recall, the big Spidey updates added some missing Sandman animation, the Daily Bugle transitions, some more shaker choreography & FX, some cooler light shows...did it add any significant gameplay changes, or was it all just frosting? I mean, I definitely remember how amazing the "frosting" made the game feel...really tied it together - but I feel like it always had solid bones...the overall concept never really changed.

Anyone notice a theme here?

Lyman coded pins are mentioned far more than any other. AC/DC, TWD, and MET are all great examples of pins that improved tremendously after Lyman had the time to get the code up to his standard.

How does the current GB issue feel to you compared to how X-Men felt early on? I was lucky enough to avoid the early shit storm on X-Men, but fully lived the Metallica wait for finished code, and KISS, and now going through that period where I'm figuring out just how annoying the GB mode ladder is. In short, was X-Men so bad early that it tainted it forever, as opposed to GB, that with a bit of tweaking can flip to awesome?

I think Lyman thinks of code like a good screenwriter. Writes it backwards from rewarding payoff, and completes all the necessary build-up to get there. Other coders seem to be thinking from the beginning and then stack things on.

I dont think Ive gone from Hate to Love, but WOZ stands out with the last update as polished with mass appeal.

I feel that if WOZ or even Xmen was released with the code it has now at the end, they would garnish a great
deal more praise.

Its also a bit more of attitude....Like is there any game one has hated.
From many posts on many threads, on many games, it seems a lot of people have true hatred towards a game.....I mean posts to no end of hate, even tantrums in person!

Hating a Pinball? for me, not possible....Not my taste, sure.....even with good code, and a great reputation.

What I would LOVE to see is more user controlled code! More Robust settings, Full PinBrowser support on music and sound. Change the rules....Change the points.....I know, tournament players would likely hate this!

Oh man I think they're just two totally different games with different design and code philosophies. Too hard to compare...I may not like GB's code, but it's subjective - X-Men was just an objective clusterfuck for a while. While it's improved by leaps and bounds, I still don't think it all gels in the way other games with lots of content do, and I hate the toys and audio. While I have my GB complaints, I dig the toys and audio...and I think code tweaks can bring it together. I don't think it'll be as good the best Sterns due to the physical design, but if it can just be more "fun" by ditching the repetition factor (no game should require the player to do the same mode 3 or 4 times in a row), it will be a very cool game!

Battle Royale and Superhero were absent as well as a lot of sounds, effects, animations, etc...I remember it being very boring.