(Topic ID: 252174)

JJP POTC #WheresTheCode?

By PanzerFreak

2 years ago


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  • 529 posts
  • 105 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 43 days ago by epotech
  • Topic is favorited by 42 Pinsiders

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There are 529 posts in this topic. You are on page 11 of 11.
#501 5 months ago
Quoted from RJW:

Pretty much every post stating they won't make any more POTC because <insert reason here>,
is made by a current POTC owner, who is worried about the effect more games would have on their "investment".

For me the only investments are stocks. Pinball is a toy. I'm in the camp of owners who would be happy to see more POTC produced because then it would mean the possibility of game specific spare parts becoming available if ever needed. I think there are a lot of owners in the forums who have expressed that same thought. People who recently bought games at sky high prices might think differently.

But I'd guess a very large majority of current owners purchased at a price lower than what JJP would likely sell a new version for (if that unlikely event happened) and so really wouldn't be concerned about any impact to resale. And anyone concerned about locking in a value probably would have sold it by now anyway.

#502 5 months ago
Quoted from EaglePin:

After JJP moved to their new facility it was someone from JJP who said everything in the place is set up to run standard bodies and it would be a large cost to reconfigure it all to run a wide body and switch it all back again to run more standards. It wasn't any Pinsider who pulled that out of thin air.

I hear you, but like JJP said about 6 weeks ago when asked about building more wide body’s... “who knows what the future will bring”

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#503 5 months ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I hear you, but like JJP said about 6 weeks ago when asked about building more wide body’s... “who knows what the future will bring”
[quoted image]

Absolutely could happen. I'm sure it's not a 0% chance. But I'd take what they said about cost involved with the factory setup as a better indicator of the likelihood than one of their social media posts. This post from 3 months ago showing JJP social media hinting that POTC code would be the following week tells me the JJP social media stuff might not be super reliable:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hate-to-say-it-but-wheresthecode-jjp-potc/page/8#post-6562743

#504 5 months ago

I used to think JJP would run more Pirates LE's at $15k but maybe not. If Stern distributors can sell 200 Elvira 40th editions at $25k I bet JJP could sell 200 games of some crazy ultimate edition of Pirates at $25k. That's $5,000,000 in sales right there, probably $2,000,000 - $2,500,000 in profit. Why not do it?

#505 5 months ago
Quoted from RJW:

Pretty much every post stating they won't make any more POTC because <insert reason here>,
is made by a current POTC owner, who is worried about the effect more games would have on their "investment".

Pretty much a statement made only by non POTC owners who spend time reading a "Where's the Code" thread for a game they don't have.

I'm an owner of an SE and I'm not at all concerned if they remake the game. New games will be more expensive than the original run, and a rising tide raises all ships.

ECLE Woz games actually increased value when later games (some w/ reduced features) were sold at a higher price. Ongoing production hasn't lowered the value of the original run.

#506 5 months ago

It is quite obviously the owner's fault that they haven't convinced JJP to release a software update yet.

#507 5 months ago

I talked to an insider at JJP before Gnr was announced at that time he was before there was 0% chance of Potc being re-run, When the prices started skyrocketing, It was being talked about at the company and he said maybe a 20/30% chance now. With all the games in the pipeline and the expensive cost of making Potc I don't see it happening anytime soon.

#508 5 months ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I hear you, but like JJP said about 6 weeks ago when asked about building more wide body’s... “who knows what the future will bring”
[quoted image]

I wouldn't put stock into anything JJP says. Anywhere. Ever.

Jeff

#509 5 months ago

There have been a steady supply of second hand POTCs available in the $17-20k range. They aren't exactly flying off the shelf, even with mods. Pirates seems to still be regarded as some uber expensive game, but in reality lots of other games are closing the gap over the last year or so. All of JJPs past games except maybe DI trade well over $10k now, with even GnR CEs matching POTC LE pricing. Many Stern Premiums are in the teens somewhere now too, with some games like GB exceeding POTC LE prices. Alien? TBL? The iron has gone cold, imo.

#510 5 months ago
Quoted from EaglePin:

Let's see, that Wonka update was in August and they put more Wonkas on the line within a month or two of that update. They did the same thing with WOZ with an update in March 2019 that was tied to upcoming 2019 builds of that game. They aren't doing it out of the goodness of their heart or for some sentimental reason.

Hmmmm I heard from JJP people that Joe worked on revising the latest Wonka code on primarily on his own time - late evenings and weekends. This was primarily so that the average player could get beyond the 2-3 golden tickets that most of us were stuck at. I beta tested his code version prior to the general public revision release and it was way too easy for me. I finished a game by the 5th game and was going to have to change settings to make it harder. I'm just a mediocre player (IFPA rank #3000+). A few people agreed with me and Joe backed off a few of the easier settings a bit. I think the Wonka difficulty is set pretty darn good for my level of play at this point. Joe mostly interacted with beta testers on nights and weekends for that particular update. I would say it was "for the love of his game" that he wanted more people to enjoy and have more fun with Wonka. The people that can complete Wonka now know how to go into settings and make it harder for their challenge needs.

The pirates update is more than just a final wizard mode. They did a lot of tweaks and re-tweaks to character traits. Those are pretty good in the latest beta. I'm not going to try to defend the time it is taking to complete the final wizard, but Keith's code updates are typically super awesome. I'm waiting patiently and hope that it will be completed soon. That being said, I will probably never reach the final Pirates wizard mode, so the current beta code is pretty darn good for me. Just my opinion.

#511 5 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I used to think JJP would run more Pirates LE's at $15k but maybe not. If Stern distributors can sell 200 Elvira 40th editions at $25k I bet JJP could sell 200 games of some crazy ultimate edition of Pirates at $25k. That's $5,000,000 in sales right there, probably $2,000,000 - $2,500,000 in profit. Why not do it?

At MGC Jack pretty much said that they aren't going to charge super-inflated rates for pins. I could see $15k, but not $25k direct from JJP. Flippers, yes.

#512 5 months ago
Quoted from KingBW:

Hmmmm I heard from JJP people that Joe worked on revising the latest Wonka code on primarily on his own time - late evenings and weekends. This was primarily so that the average player could get beyond the 2-3 golden tickets that most of us were stuck at. I beta tested his code version prior to the general public revision release and it was way too easy for me. I finished a game by the 5th game and was going to have to change settings to make it harder. I'm just a mediocre player (IFPA rank #3000+). A few people agreed with me and Joe backed off a few of the easier settings a bit. I think the Wonka difficulty is set pretty darn good for my level of play at this point. Joe mostly interacted with beta testers on nights and weekends for that particular update. I would say it was "for the love of his game" that he wanted more people to enjoy and have more fun with Wonka. The people that can complete Wonka now know how to go into settings and make it harder for their challenge needs.
The pirates update is more than just a final wizard mode. They did a lot of tweaks and re-tweaks to character traits. Those are pretty good in the latest beta. I'm not going to try to defend the time it is taking to complete the final wizard, but Keith's code updates are typically super awesome. I'm waiting patiently and hope that it will be completed soon. That being said, I will probably never reach the final Pirates wizard mode, so the current beta code is pretty darn good for me. Just my opinion.

That's great for Wonka owners that that much effort was made to update the code to improve their game. I don't know the details of Joe's employment so I have no idea if nights & weekends means truly doing it for free because he's an hourly employee or if he's salaried which, right or wrong, usually means overtime is going to be part of the job to finish things that need to get done. That's not said to try to diminish the effort. I know what it's like, because I've worked TONS of nights & weekends overtime as a salaried employee for a lot of years now. But I would never have said I did any of that work "on my own time", because it was part of my salaried responsibilities. Again, I don't know the details and I certainly respect the care and effort you described on that Wonka update to make that game better. I just wish someone at JJP would have been putting a little of the same care and effort into POTC at some point during the past 3 years to get an update out for it regardless of whether or not that update included the final wizard mode.

#513 5 months ago

My advice would be to sign up for the JJP beta group that's on Telegram. There's a link in that group so you can download the beta code. That's what I did, and that's probably the closest you'll ever get to the final code (at least for quite a while is my guess). I just got a bit tired of the constant "soon" comment made by JJP over the last couple of months and that was just one "soon" too many for me, so I signed up for the JJP beta group. Got beta build 2 installed on my POTC for a couple of weeks now.

#514 5 months ago
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1 week later
#515 4 months ago

Official release? The waiting has been brutal.

#516 4 months ago
Quoted from EaglePin:

But I would never have said I did any of that work "on my own time", because it was part of my salaried responsibilities.

The Wonka update was not a part of his salaried responsibilities.

And this is why all Wonka owners should hug Joe and/or buy him a beer every time you see him.

#517 4 months ago
Quoted from Reznnate:

The Wonka update was not a part of his salaried responsibilities.
And this is why all Wonka owners should hug Joe and/or buy him a beer every time you see him.

A labor of love from a guy truly passionate about his work.

1 month later
#518 3 months ago

So.... Hate to keep reviving this but holy hell JJP... This has to be the longest "beta" I've ever seen...

Jeff

-1
#519 3 months ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

So.... Hate to keep reviving this but holy hell JJP... This has to be the longest "beta" I've ever seen...
Jeff

Aren’t there only a 1000 total JJPPOTC in the universe? That must have been a total financial disaster, so much development effort for 1000 games.

How does a manager at JJP justify allocating super expensive software engineers to a commercial flop like that just for updates (and yes, I think the game is awesome but wow, can you imagine being attached to a product flop like POTC. At my employer that’s the career kiss of death).

1 month later
#520 56 days ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

So.... Hate to keep reviving this but holy hell JJP... This has to be the longest "beta" I've ever seen...
Jeff

I say: revive away.

#521 56 days ago

This is Ghostbusters code update wait 2.0, probably worse at this point. JJP is about to release their 7th game and a game they released 3 titles and nearly 5 years ago still doesn’t have its code completed.

JJP used to crank out the code updates but they have come to a crawl overall over the past few years. It doesn’t matter how much Pirates are going for, that shouldn’t impact if a game does or doesn’t receive another code update. What this type of behavior does is tells customers “Code for your game may or not be completed” and “Code for your game may or may not be polished”.

Meanwhile Stern has done a complete 180 with code updates and has been cranking them out for years. If someone told me 5 years that Stern would be offering better code support then JJP in 2022 I would have laughed.

#522 56 days ago

Still it would be nice to see something emerging

#523 56 days ago

JJP should've accepted my offer to work for them, you'd have stella code updates all the time. It really isn't that hard to code a pinball machine once you figure out all the code mumbo jumbo.

#524 56 days ago
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:

JJP should've accepted my offer to work for them, you'd have stella code updates all the time. It really isn't that hard to code a pinball machine once you figure out all the code mumbo jumbo.

It's so easy, Robert had his accountants do it at deeproot!

#525 56 days ago
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:

JJP should've accepted my offer to work for them, you'd have stella code updates all the time. It really isn't that hard to code a pinball machine once you figure out all the code mumbo jumbo.

It really isn't hard to perform brain surgery once you figure out all the brain surgery mumbo jumbo

#526 56 days ago
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:

JJP should've accepted my offer to work for them, you'd have stella code updates all the time. It really isn't that hard to code a pinball machine once you figure out all the code mumbo jumbo.

There's a big difference though between coding a mode to shoot a ramp over and over again with a couple callouts versus ones that works the playfield in interesting ways, tells a story through, have moments, and have unique animations (and or video clips_ + light shows + callouts, etc all timed to shots. The coders that pull that off are very talented.

#527 56 days ago
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:

JJP should've accepted my offer to work for them, you'd have stella code updates all the time. It really isn't that hard to code a pinball machine once you figure out all the code mumbo jumbo.

As someone who develops software for a living, I always roll my eyes when "XXX should be easy" gets bandied about.

#528 56 days ago

Code is an art form.

1 week later
#529 43 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

As someone who develops software for a living, I always roll my eyes when "XXX should be easy" gets bandied about.

SlamTilt is an experienced pinball coder. The one person at Heighway I would hire without question. Alien is largely good because of him.

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