I love the fact that they are doing a remake, I'm tired of recent titles inflated . So many benefits of a new manufactured game at a more reasonable price.

Narcissistic? Seriously? What do you call buying pristine restored A list titles and sitting on them waiting to flip for a profit while thousands of others would drool at the chance of actually playing one as the designers intended? News flash, these are GAMES. Games and meant to be PLAYED. They are designed for ROUTE ENVIROMENTS for crap's sake. This remake and future remakes will be the best thing to happen to 21st century pinball and you darn well know it. You and everyone else that are in this just for the money either need to stand down or find another hobby.

There was a lot of competition during the heyday of pinball – Bally/Williams, Capcom, Gottlieb, Stern, etc. How did that play out; was it better for the customers to only have Stern survive the 90s? Pinball is a niche market right? How many people are really collecting pinball machines? Yes, there are still operators that buy machines and put them on route, but what percentage of the consumer market do they represent? I’d venture to guess that guys like you and me represent more than 60% of the customer base. I think we can all agree that without hobbies/collectors buying pinball machines nobody would be manufacturing new or reproduction games. Again, I just don’t think the market can sustain 3 to 4 thousand new machines a year (1000+ WOZs, 800 ST LEs, 1000+ MM Remakes, X number of Predators, X number of P3 machines, and so no).

Also, I think there is a big misconception on how profitable it is to manufacture pinball machines. For example, I couldn’t build a new MM in my garage (new cab, decals, playfield, plastics, etc.) for less than $6K and I have zero overhead costs. Sure I’m paying a premium for parts that PPS won’t have to, but I’m not dealing with the expense of running a manufacturing facility (employees, insurance, utilities, etc.). I never understand why people think it should only cost $5K to make a pinball machine. What does a gallon of milk cost these days? Truth is nobody really knows what Stern or JJP’s profit margins are. However, I do know that it cost me over $6K in parts just to rebuild my MB and I don’t charge myself for labor and I'm looking to make a profit. Companies exist to make money and if the profit margin isn't there they won’t be either.

On a separate note, I don’t see PPS ever making new pinball machines. Does PPS actually make anything? Do they have the experience and “know how” to run a pinball manufacturing company? Remember, PPS just owns the licensing rights for the reproduction of original Bally/Williams pinball parts, emphasis on “reproduction.” They will find somebody to do the work, cover the costs, then sit back and collect a percentage of the profit. That's a great business model for them; I’d do the same thing if I paid a small fortune to own the Bally/Williams licensing rights – can’t blame them.

Again, I hope you guys like your MMs and wish PPS the best. I think these remakes will sell like hotcakes, but I also think this is the beginning of the end for some of the new "innovation" we've seen the last few years.

Cheap was a bad word but it just seems like a lot of corners are being cut but I could be wrong only time will tell after we start seeing pics.

Personally if I was buying one these are the big things for me:

Not original boards
Different wire harness that will be completely different looking
LED boards for inserts being only white - personally a huge fan of color matching inserts with LED's
Color DMD compatibility
etc

No, but Chicago Gaming does and so does Jack Guarnieri who's involvement in this appears to be more than just a distributor.

I'm looking forward to the end of "innovation" as we knew it and moving forward with real, true innovation. I wouldn't say it's sink or swim time for Stern, but they upped their game with AC/DC when WOZ was gaining ground, hopefully they do it again now. They've got a lot of stuff and tech they are supposedly sitting on.

They didn't sell 1000+ anything yet. PRESOLD... I will not really form an opinion until I see a MM come off the assembly line and can play one.

I understand it. If I had paid a lot of $$ for a MM and then a remake was released new for considerably less. I would be irritated, sick, angry as well. Time will heal.

Every single issue you have with the game is solely based on the fact that it's 2013 and not 1997. Of course they aren't going to use original boards and all the issues related to them. We all know how popular the threads were on the Hakko 808 group buys Their boardset appears to be extremely reasonable in price, it's come to the point where this stuff is disposable.

LEDs are an unfortunate drawback to the new board system. However, with warm white LEDs and the ability to adjust the brightness to our liking, I'm thinking it'll be just fine. What worries me are the boards themselves. If one LED blows do I have to replace a huge $200 LED board because I can't replace 1 surface mount LED.

Already on the (fake) DMD front they stated you can use 8 different colors and they are still working with the color DMD guys. It seems to me, most of the work for the color DMD guys is the actual coloring dot by dot and their hardware, none of which they have to worry about here.

Original wire harness?? Most of don't care. We actually are thrilled for newer technology under the hood.

My MM has the original boards and never have had an issue. As for the 2013 comment I agree and that's why the hobby should be trying to make new games or if they reproduce games do games that had low production and high desire.

I'm just glad Stern has continued to make a pin priced in the $4,500-5k range. I have enjoyed most of the Pro titles stern has released in the last few years. Almost anywhere else a NIB will cost you 6500-8k+ these days. I'm not saying the pins in that Price range are not wonderful machines but 8k for nib is just to much IMO.

good thing you're not buying one.

Welcome to Pinside!

+1000

I could care less if all of my most expensive machines dropped done to nothing as far as value is concerned, because I bought them to play and enjoy and not counting on them being a nest egg in the future.

I will say this again. The people NOT ok with a remake WOULD be if it came along before they paid a pretty penny for an original and could get a NIB at a fraction of what they paid for the original. Its all in the timing. Sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss.
And considering other people's position, those who are angry, sad, devastated, whatever, none of those people were held at gunpoint and were forced to shell out that kind of money for an original MM pinball machine that they wanted.

You are one of the few. I can't tell you how many burnt GI circuits I have replaced.

The "board" argument is ridiculous. A five year old cell phone has more computing power than WPC-95 boards.

Not sure why anyone is worried about the quality of a remake this early? The remakes of BBB are selling for 25,000. I believe the value of the originals will hold steady. The new ones will be made well....different but well.

flag on the play. Offsides. 20 Yard Penalty 3rd down. no more MM threads.

referee-flag.jpg

Funny but this may be the 6th time i have seen you say this but not many (if any) others have. Who is "we" and "most"?

How are the WOZ LED boards turning out? Major hiccups in production and JJP is a much bigger operation then we are talking about here.. I would take tried and true tech (even if its "old") over a new platform as it has proven to work.

In fact, while on the subject.. how cool would it have been if PP used the original boards? Wow.. plentiful boards for all our games... good for pinball as they are much needed...missed opportunity.

Let's see 1000 sales we know of it sounds like many more. Everyone I have talked to In person , via pm and per email . We want new!

Never had hardware issues with my WoZ LE, and many others have not as well. However like most machine built circuit boards mass produced you will find your share of issues in any application of their use. My brand new LG 3D TV mainboard went just after 7 weeks it happens and it will be addressed. Loving my 3D movies now, as I will my Midieval Madness soon enough. Advancements shouldn't be a deterrent but rather a welcomed change for better.