(Topic ID: 67485)

Hate for MMR?

By Anth

10 years ago


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There are 122 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
17
#1 10 years ago

I am very excited for the opportunity to finally own the pinball machine I've wanted since I was a teenager. I thought a more affordable remake of MM would always be a fantasy to daydream about. I thought wrong; it's actually happening! All of the pinball universe should collectively rejoice right? Right?

I've been reading a lot of the MMR posts that have popped up and, surprisingly, there are many with only negative things to say about it. I definitely didn't expect that and find it irritating. I'm assuming most of the hate is being driven by greed, jealousy, and other undesirables rather than any legitimate reasons. I believe this because most of the negative reasoning I've seen consists of nitpicking, assumption of the worst, and complete nonsense.

My opinion is, simply, that the good far outweighs the bad here. I am very excited about the direction in which pinball is going and think it should be celebrated. I can't wait for MMR to arrive.

#2 10 years ago
Quoted from Anth:

I can't wait for MMR to arrive.

You and 999+ other LE preorderers. Forums are forums. They bring out the extremes of the opinion spectrum. I don't worry about it too much, if you are happy, that's what matters.

-Wes

#3 10 years ago

The only issue for me is the price, which is a bit higher than I hoped. That being said, I am still considering an eventual order since production will continue as long as sales are great.

29
#4 10 years ago

The only people who seem to be negative are the following:

1) People who own the game
2) People who restore the game
3) People who flip the game

So it's not surprising they are going to talk shit and put the machine down

#5 10 years ago
Quoted from Trace_on:

The only issue for me is the price, which is a bit higher than I hoped. That being said, I am still considering an eventual order since production will continue as long as sales are great.

Also, if price is a concern - you know you'll be able to get a HUO at some point for less...with all the supply, it won't be rare or hard to find anymore - and eventually people will sell them.

#6 10 years ago

Whining collectors who are butthurt over their original games losing value. That's all it is, period.

-1
#7 10 years ago

I'm taking a guess at why some people are "Hating" the MMR... I know I'm tired of people knocking other high end restorations saying that a PPS "replica" will be of equal or better quality because its new....

PPS wont be spending the time to make you or anyone a CQ ( ie: HEP, mcune,or any High end restoration, etc) game for anybody purchasing their "new" MM.. I seriously hope people don't expect that... as there will be a lot of sad sad pinsiders here...

everyone should be happy you are getting a game you couldn't previously get.. but don't expect the moon... or in this case a collector quality machine.

14
#8 10 years ago

Collector quality restores are a waste of time to anyone that actually plays their games, Complete overkill.

Plays the games and enjoy them, dont oggle them and start having a nervous breakdown if the ball shooter lane starts showing a little wear.

#9 10 years ago
Quoted from vbittnv:

but don't expect the moon... or in this case a collector quality machine.

Not sure I understand this. The machine will be NIB. When you restore a machine, don't you try to get it as close to this as possible?

-14
#10 10 years ago

I own a MM that is a nearly perfect original and am one that is against the remake. Not because of value of mine as it is my favorite and staying but because of the impact this will possibly cause on the hobby!

Right now the hobby was taking off like crazy with lots of new pinball makers starting up and bringing out some cool and exciting stuff. Many people were on board with these new creators and helping fund there start up for something new. Now with the remake....think of all those that might be losing customers since they have a new product and a buyer wants to spend there money on a cheap replica of a classic original game!

I just think all the money flying to the remake is going to have lots of negative impact and I for one hope they fail but I am sure they can do better the "The Pin"

18
#11 10 years ago
Quoted from Pinballer22:

think of all those that might be losing customers since they have a new product and a buyer wants to spend there money on a cheap replica of a classic original game!

What qualifies you to comment on the quality of a game that hasn't been released yet? And, do you really think that Roger Sharpe will sign off on a "cheap replica"?

I have no problem with people feeling whichever way they want on this subject, but unsubstantiated claims of poor craftsmanship are just unnecessary and petty.

-9
#12 10 years ago
Quoted from vbittnv:

PPS wont be spending the time to make you or anyone a CQ ( ie: HEP, mcune,or any High end restoration, etc) game for anybody purchasing their "new" MM.. I seriously hope people don't expect that... as there will be a lot of sad sad pinsiders here...

I don't think the MMR buyers are expecting anything like HEP, McCune, Kelly restoration quality. That's just insane! The MMR will be fine I'm sure and will serve its purpose for players but it will look and feel like a Zizzle next to a high end restores that those pros put out...

-2
#13 10 years ago
Quoted from Triumvirat73:

What qualifies you to comment on the quality of a game that hasn't been released yet? And, do you really think that Roger Sharpe will sign off on a "cheap replica"?
I have no problem with people feeling whichever way they want on this subject, but unsubstantiated claims of poor craftsmanship are just unnecessary and petty.

You right but the more I hear about little things here and there the more I think I am glad to have an original. I know multiple people buying the remake and good for them but wish they would have started with CC or something else that actually had low volume and high demand.

#14 10 years ago
Quoted from Pinballer22:

You right but the more I hear about little things here and there the more I think I am glad to have an original. I know multiple people buying the remake and good for them but wish they would have started with CC or something else that actually had low volume and high demand.

I can understand your perspective, especially being an original owner. I just think everyone should give PPS every chance to sail or fail based on their own merit. Speculating just muddies the water. Let's talk about this when someone has first hand experience playing the actual game.

#15 10 years ago
Quoted from Pinballer22:

You right but the more I hear about little things here and there the more I think I am glad to have an original. I know multiple people buying the remake and good for them but wish they would have started with CC or something else that actually had low volume and high demand.

Why should anyone believe that you'd wish PPS started *anywhere*? You've already denounced MMR as a cheap knockoff.

#16 10 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

I don't think the MMR buyers are expecting anything like HEP, McCune, Kelly restoration quality. That's just insane! The MMR will be fine I'm sure and will serve its purpose for players but it will look and feel like a Zizzle next to a high end restore that those pros put out...

Why do you assume this? JJP is putting out a pretty darn nice product with beautiful clear-coated playfields and cabinets. Why do you assume that PPS cannot do the same thing it make a product superior to the original B/W machines when they were NIB.

I agree, the screw directions might not be aligned, they might not be as finely tuned, and wiring harnesses might not be perfectly neat when compared to a HEP, but why do you assume that the quality is going to be so bad?

If the game comes out and is a total POS with thin wiring, thin playfield, inferior thin metal components then the market will respond.

I honestly think that the biggest challenge to MMR will getting it delivered by Q4 2014.

#17 10 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Not sure I understand this. The machine will be NIB. When you restore a machine, don't you try to get it as close to this as possible?

I'm sure the high end restorers do not aim for what a Williams machines were when they came out NIB... just look at the CQ restored games, they are much better than what Williams, or DE, or stern ever put out NEW because the time spent on them. Period...

Quoted from Triumvirat73:

What qualifies you to comment on the quality of a game that hasn't been released yet? And, do you really think that Roger Sharpe will sign off on a "cheap replica"?
I have no problem with people feeling whichever way they want on this subject, but unsubstantiated claims of poor craftsmanship are just unnecessary and petty.

Poor craftsmanship shouldn't be quoted since there are no machines out, but with that being said, you aint getting no CQ machine.... PPS is into making money, not a flawless machine for you or anybody.

Quoted from teekee:

I don't think the MMR buyers are expecting anything like HEP, McCune, Kelly restoration quality. That's just insane! The MMR will be fine I'm sure and will serve its purpose for players but it will look and feel like a Zizzle next to a high end restore that those pros put out...

Not everybody, but there are plenty of dreamers on pinside that think they are getting something resembling a machine that was painstakingly hand restored, with the utmost of care and attention to detail and no expense spared... cant wait for the crying... or them running and hiding their tails.

Quoted from Benepinballs:Collector quality restores are a waste of time to anyone that actually plays their games, Complete overkill.
Plays the games and enjoy them, dont oggle them and start having a nervous breakdown if the ball shooter lane starts showing a little wear.

Quoted from Benepinballs:

Collector quality restores are a waste of time to anyone that actually plays their games, Complete overkill.
Plays the games and enjoy them, dont oggle them and start having a nervous breakdown if the ball shooter lane starts showing a little wear.

I understand this completely... some people want them CQ and some dont, I dont care either way... I'm just replying to what some dreamers think they are getting... I'm all for the remake, I'm glad more people get to play and own MM, I didn't pre-order because I know what I want, and MMLE doesn't have it.

#18 10 years ago

I don't fall into BoJo's categories so I guess there's a 4th:

I am simply against paying for something before I can play it/touch it/experience it. I'm not so much against MMR specifically, more against the trend in pinball (thanks to Stern really) that justifies agreeing to pay for something that's $8000 before it's made (or even fully conceptualized for that matter). Then, being able to get a full refund when you change your mind. THAT is what I'm against.

It all seems so "bait and switch".
You want this, give us this, then details change. Morally wrong on so many levels.

#19 10 years ago

no hate for it - i am actually trying to sell my original mm - and then later on i will buy a remake. what might look like hate is now nobody knows what the value of games will be - so it's scary - heck i have played cc once - if i saw one for sale at 12k i would buy it with the understanding that if i didn't like it - no big deal just sell it - i would get most of my money back

now nobody knows exactly what will happen with prices - so that is a little scary - i started at 9800 on my mm - just reduced to 9500.

i will do one more reduction if i have to - but so far the only response has been a few people saying they wish they had the money

2 weeks ago i would be sending pictures out to 10 people - i have no clue on what will happen to prices - i know most things are supply and demand - well supplies of pins are going way up - so it should mean demand will go down - so if you want to sell something it will have to be priced low enough to get a buyer

this isn't a bad thing - but it's a scary thing - i have a lot of machines - and because of that a lot of my machines rarely get played - i have 5 children and many jobs - so i play 3-5 games per day. never do i just stay home for hours and play 50 games a day like others.

so if i buy games now and they are going to depreciate - that's okay if you play them a lot - but if you only get maybe 50 games on it in 1 year - well that stinks if you have to take a big hit to sell it

i can go on and on - it's a good thing - and it's can be a bad thing - nobody real knows

but right now it's a bad thing because people are fighting like crazy now on here and rgp - it is creating tension between people right now - and tension starts creating hatred and jelousy. so right now sadly it's a bad thing

step back and enjoy pinball - stop fighting with each other - please be civil to each other - sorry for all the advice.

thanks ed

#20 10 years ago
Quoted from Pinballer22:

I own a MM that is a nearly perfect original and am one that is against the remake. Not because of value of mine as it is my favorite and staying but because of the impact this will possibly cause on the hobby!
Right now the hobby was taking off like crazy with lots of new pinball makers starting up and bringing out some cool and exciting stuff. Many people were on board with these new creators and helping fund there start up for something new. Now with the remake....think of all those that might be losing customers since they have a new product and a buyer wants to spend there money on a cheap replica of a classic original game!
I just think all the money flying to the remake is going to have lots of negative impact and I for one hope they fail but I am sure they can do better the "The Pin"

Full disclosure: I do have an open order for MMR...

What I expect out of the box is something of comparable quality to what a brand new MM was in 1997. I expect it to have that B/W "feel". Do I think this is unreasonable? No I don't. Do I think they will achieve it? God I hope so.

*EDITED BASED ON POST BELOW - AGREE!* For $8K, they better freaking achieve it!

I would have preferred the original boardset for compatibility with existing parts, repairs, add-ons, etc. But, I'm hopeful the new boardset will outweigh the downsides...

Jaz

#21 10 years ago
Quoted from Pinballer22:

I own a MM that is a nearly perfect original (...)
"

Well I don't, and could not care less about MM but...

Quoted from Pinballer22:

I
Right now the hobby was taking off like crazy with lots of new pinball makers starting up and bringing out some cool and exciting stuff. Many people were on board with these new creators and helping fund there start up for something new. Now with the remake....think of all those that might be losing customers since they have a new product and a buyer wants to spend there money on a cheap replica of a classic original game!
I just think all the money flying to the remake is going to have lots of negative impact and I for one hope they fail but I am sure they can do better the "The Pin"

...I fully agree with this analysis. This remake may hurt the hobby as some of the new manufacturers may actually disappear - or won't even be created.
I would prefer year 2015 with new original pins than flooded with repros...

#22 10 years ago
Quoted from Jazman:

Do I think this is unreasonable? No I don't. Do I think they will achieve it? God I hope so.

For 8k...they better!

#23 10 years ago
Quoted from Pinballer22:

You right but the more I hear about little things here and there the more I think I am glad to have an original. I know multiple people buying the remake and good for them but wish they would have started with CC or something else that actually had low volume and high demand.

The thing is CC had no demand when it was released. It made no money and when it was produced it was done so in that low number to avoid any being left when RFM was released. That plan failed because no one was buying CC and no one liked it and there was still plenty to be had NIB when RFM was released. There was ZERO demand. The game really isn't very fun compared to most games of its time and the only reason people pay big money for them now is because of the perceived rarity of the game and folks who collect games more for investments or for show (rather than to play) latched onto that game as some sort of holy grail because of the low run. I don't get the appeal at all.

Now take MM. When the game was produced it earned great money consistently for a very long time. In fact a year or so later when ops couldn't buy them anymore they were regularly asking for WMS to do another run of MM because most ops wanted more of them to put out. The company always would just run a game then move on to the next one without ever looking back. They easily could have run another thousand or more at that time and sold them all pretty quickly but they wouldn't do it. Now about 17 years later someone finally is doing a reproduction of this game because the demand for it is still there after all this time and plenty of ops are still running them. The only other game that really had that kind of legs was TAF.

Anyone who is pissed off that someone remade this game clearly isn't buying games for their home because they are fun to play but they are buying them as some sort of investment. Until recently pinball machines never appreciated in value after they were years old and worn. I still think 8,000 is pretty ridiculous for any game and I'll never be in the position to buy NIB games but it is a good thing that with such a high demand out there for this game that now people can get new ones again and ops can get some new ones again to put out and earn some money (though with such a lofty price tag it will take an awful long time to get a ROI when you are splitting the cash box with a location).

If you are one of those people who care more about the value of your machines than how fun they are to play then perhaps I can interest you in some comic books, toys, pogs, beanie babies, and magic cards?

#24 10 years ago

No hate in my veins at all. Other then the fact I didn't get in on time for an LE. I have big hopes for the Standard but I'm not going to pre-order now as there will be enough to satisfy demand for many years to come. Look forward to picking up a HUO down the line. I've waited this long....what's another couple years.

#25 10 years ago
Quoted from BoJo:

The only people who seem to be negative are the following:

1) People who own the game
2) People who restore the game
3) People who flip the game

So it's not surprising they are going to talk shit and put the machine down

Quoted from Crash:

Whining collectors who are butthurt over their original games losing value. That's all it is, period.

100% correct. Making a highly desirable game affordable to most collectors and players can only grow the hobby.
If all goes smoothly and the machines come out as expected, this would be one of the best things to happen to the hobby itself. More remakes would sure to follow and thus allow more folks to afford certain games that they normally could not. This seems like a win win on all accounts. Everyone knows that the collectors who flip and buy
pins as investment will not like remakes since it will eventually make the originals go down a bit in value.

Remakes generate interest in the hobby and as long as it continues to grow, then newer machines will also be developed by Stern, JJP, and others.

#26 10 years ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

I don't fall into BoJo's categories so I guess there's a 4th:
I am simply against paying for something before I can play it/touch it/experience it. I'm not so much against MMR specifically, more against the trend in pinball (thanks to Stern really) that justifies agreeing to pay for something that's $8000 before it's made (or even fully conceptualized for that matter). Then, being able to get a full refund when you change your mind. THAT is what I'm against.
It all seems so "bait and switch".
You want this, give us this, then details change. Morally wrong on so many levels.

Nobody is forcing you to buy a MMR LE. Just wait and try one out and decide if you want a standard later. Unlike the stern approach, you at least know pretty much exactly what you're getting in terms of the game features, rules, toys, artwork, etc. And if it forces Stern to up their quality or lower their prices, so be it. Stern just lost about $8M of discretionary pinball buying power in a couple of days.

As for quality, it does remain to be seen but I *hope* that they will go the extra yard and make it a reliable, detailed game. There's room to put in superior quality and still make a decent profit at $8k. And PPS does have something to prove in the build quality department if they want to sell remakes of other titles in the future.

(Teekee's comment about it looking and feeling like a Zizzle next to the high-end restore jobs is just asinine. It'll be NIB, and likely have improved printing quality, plus lots of factory clearcoat and modernized electronics that are also designed to power mellow LED lighting throughout. You can tweak and dial in a MMR, and it'll play great PLUS it'll be brand new!)

#27 10 years ago
Quoted from BoJo:

The only people who seem to be negative are the following:
1) People who own the game
2) People who restore the game
3) People who flip the game
So it's not surprising they are going to talk shit and put the machine down

Perhaps it isn't surprising. It is disappointing.

#28 10 years ago

There was more fighting over WOZ. And that went on for years. And still goes on. This is nothing new.

#29 10 years ago

Who's to say that after making a few successful remakes that PPS won't start making their own new pins in the future and these remakes are funding that potential infrastructure? I'm sure PPS themselves can't even say if that is a possibility at this point (or maybe they can).

#30 10 years ago
Quoted from Benepinballs:

Collector quality restores are a waste of time to anyone that actually plays their games, Complete overkill.
Plays the games and enjoy them, dont oggle them and start having a nervous breakdown if the ball shooter lane starts showing a little wear.

I agree. I very much appreciate the people who turn machines that may have ended up in a landfill into works of art, but between a $16k "better than new" game and an $8k NIB repro it's a painfully obvious decision. High end restores are awesome but they aren't THAT much better than a brand new game.

#31 10 years ago

Quality? Don't make me laff!

You think PPS would bet their future on putting out an average quality machine to make a short term killing, they get this right (and I bet they do) they have another 3..4..5... sure fire remake hits on their hands.

#32 10 years ago

I don't hate MMR

I hate all MM & MMR threads!

They are full of the most Diabolical Haters this side of the Mississippi.

Bunch of mark ass marks, trick ass marks, punk bitches, skip skap skanks and scallywags, hoes, heifers, hee haws and hoola-hoops.

image.jpgimage.jpg
#33 10 years ago
Quoted from Pinballer22:

......because of the impact this will possibly cause on the hobby!

I will concur to this part of your argument.

Average person cannot afford a $4K pinball machine, let alone an $8K one.

Half of the people that come to my parties and want to get in the hobby, never do because of the price.

I was getting pissed when I was buying them for $1500 back in '95.

#34 10 years ago
Quoted from Sly_Old_Devil:

Quality? Don't make me laff!
You think PPS would bet their future on putting out an average quality machine to make a short term killing, they get this right (and I bet they do) they have another 3..4..5... sure fire remake hits on their hands.

Yup. That $8K is going somewhere. IMO a lot of it's going into the game

#35 10 years ago

New manufacturers will only fail if their product is no good or if their price is too high. I don't think that MMR would be the reason for someone else's failure. It will be intersting to see what happens in the near future with new releases and prices. I still think its a good time for pinball.

#36 10 years ago

The comparison to zizzle and costco Sterns is ridiculous. The Costco Sterns were a cheapened version that could be sold at stores at a cheaper price. I don't see any cheapening out on this MMR compared to the original. The cabinet not being screened and the use of LED's are the only changes. They are not removing any of the playfield features so I don't see how it would play any differently then an original NIB MM. The change is boards is not cheapening out and it's called technology. Why use all those boards in the backbox if they are not needed. William's and Roger Shape have to sign off and they are not going to allow a piece of shit to be produced.

#37 10 years ago
Quoted from BoJo:

The comparison to zizzle and costco Sterns is ridiculous. The Costco Sterns were a cheapened version that could be sold at stores at a cheaper price. I don't see any cheapening out on this MMR compared to the original. The cabinet not being screened and the use of LED's are the only changes. They are not removing any of the playfield features so I don't see how it would play any differently then an original NIB MM. The change is boards is not cheapening out and it's called technology. Why use all those boards in the backbox if they are not needed. William's and Roger Shape have to sign off and they are not going to allow a piece of shit to be produced.

Actually, the Costco Stern machines are probably better quality than a current Stern Pro or even LE when it comes to wire gauge, steel thickness, and playfield thickness....

#38 10 years ago
Quoted from BoJo:

The only people who seem to be negative are the following:

1) People who own the game
2) People who restore the game
3) People who flip the game

So it's not surprising they are going to talk shit and put the machine down

You forgot one group- and I see a lot of it on these threads-

4) People who can't believe they are charging 8k for a remake

I have read many posts that are still sticker shocked as 8k is still a lot of money for people. Many people see how they were able to keep costs down, but still charged a premium price. They then came out with a standard version, and still kept the price the same.

The "usual" response to these people by many of the new MMR owners, "Just be lucky they are making more MMs!" What do they care when they still can't afford it? How many posts have I seen where people have said, I would have been in at 6k-7k, but not 8k?

#39 10 years ago

All this talk about "the hobby" makes me want to puke. There is no "the hobby". What there is is supply and demand for pinball machines. There are all different reasons. Someone who plays for skillz has one hobby. SOmeone who buys brand new machines to line up and look at has another hobby. Someone who buys junk and makes it like new has another hobby.

To try to create a model that encompasses the multitude of hobbies (and businesses) that involve pinball machines is a ridiculous exercise in self-important self-indulgence. Isn't this obvious by the way so many argue passionately for their perspective while ignoring others. I do what I want with my pinball machines and you should do what you want with your pinball machines. You mind your business and I'll mind mine. When I want to make a quick 3 grand selling a spot in line, I expect you to respect that just as much as the guy who dumps 5 grand into a gottlieb EM that he could go out and buy for less than a grand.

Different strokes for different folks. And if you think you represent "the hobby", the only thing you represent is self-esteem ran amock. There is no "the hobby". There are hobbies and businesses that intersect on this and other boards.

#40 10 years ago

As someone that nearly buckled on an ACDC preorder for the MMR I can tell you my reasons for at least waiting...

The board set

Having it on the underside of playfield is madness. Will be very prone to issues from vibration (cracked solder joints, connectors shaking loose). Also a pig for maintenance (will be in the way when you want to make some otherwise minor adjustments).

Also seems to be a custom board set. Where do replacements come from. For how many decades will they be available? Is it all surface mount components? (Ie, well beyond the repair abilities of most hobbyists

I'm happy to wait. Especially if the standard editions will be available much later when all these issues will be ironed out

#41 10 years ago
Quoted from gearheaddropping:

Actually, the Costco Stern machines are probably better quality than a current Stern Pro or even LE when it comes to wire gauge, steel thickness, and playfield thickness....

The cabinets were particle board though.

#42 10 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

Stern just lost about $8M of discretionary pinball buying power in a couple of days.

Really ? Just Stern ? Wow ,short sighted are we ?

#43 10 years ago

The silliest argument of all against MMLE, "they are in it for the money." That is WHY there is a really good chance MMLE will feel, play and act exactly like a 1997 NIB MM.

If they do a bad job on MMLE, they are leaving millions on the table because who would buy their CC, or AFM, or MB or TOTAN, or god knows what else.

#44 10 years ago
Quoted from Wizcat:

Also seems to be a custom board set. Where do replacements come from. For how many decades will they be available? Is it all surface mount components? (Ie, well beyond the repair abilities of most hobbyists
I'm happy to wait. Especially if the standard editions will be available much later when all these issues will be ironed out

How could that boardset NOT be surface mount! As small as it was, it has to be highly compressed SM just to get everything in that amount of real estate.

#45 10 years ago

You don't fix a $40 board, you buy a new one. Someone linked to the board they are using and it's literally $40. it's a consumer off the shelf board.

How long will these be available? How long will people keep making pinballs? Or flipper rebuild kits? Or solenoids? Your argument could be used for any part of a pinball machine.

Quoted from Wizcat:

Also seems to be a custom board set. Where do replacements come from. For how many decades will they be available? Is it all surface mount components? (Ie, well beyond the repair abilities of most hobbyists

#46 10 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Your argument could be used for any part of a pinball machine.

Exactly including the 20 year old stuff being replaced. Easier to replace todays stuff than yesterdays. Sheesh.

#47 10 years ago

I had a HEP restored MM that was one the most beautiful machines I had ever seen. It included a PPS playfield and new cabinet decals. The new machine is also going to include a repro playfield and new decals, so I can't figure I will be able to notice too much difference by looking at it. Time will tell.

#48 10 years ago

Check out the other MM Thread. Game quality is to be the same as the original.

2. I believe I understood you to say that Williams condition to doing this was it had to be an exact replica to sign off. Can you confirm?

- It has to look and play as original (as in 'look' the same +/- some minor variations due to either Copyright / Trademark requirements, or possibly some variations such as trim color, etc. It already looks similar.

#49 10 years ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

You forgot one group- and I see a lot of it on these threads-
4) People who can't believe they are charging 8k for a remake
I have read many posts that are still sticker shocked as 8k is still a lot of money for people. Many people see how they were able to keep costs down, but still charged a premium price. They then came out with a standard version, and still kept the price the same.
The "usual" response to these people by many of the new MMR owners, "Just be lucky they are making more MMs!" What do they care when they still can't afford it? How many posts have I seen where people have said, I would have been in at 6k-7k, but not 8k?

JJP and Stern charge around 8K for NIB games without finished code so guess Planetary is just following suit. I agree 8K is a lot but we can only blame ourselves for letting routed MM's become the standard at 10-12K.

#50 10 years ago
Quoted from MXV:

If you are one of those people who care more about the value of your machines than how fun they are to play then perhaps I can interest you in some comic books, toys, pogs, beanie babies, and magic cards?

Magic Cards rock because Magic is a GREAT game. I care way more about playing the game than about the condition of my Moxes and Lotus.

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