(Topic ID: 99229)

Has WOZ revolutionized pinball?


By Hawkeyepin

5 years ago



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-1
#1 5 years ago

I remember some comments during it's production that the quality and interactivity would usher in a new pinball era. Some time has gone by to evaluate WOZ's impact. What do you think?

#2 5 years ago

#4 5 years ago

You two need to behave.

58
#5 5 years ago

It's revolutionized patience. Have all the LE's shipped yet!?!?

-1
#6 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

It's revolutionized patience. Have all the LE's shipped yet!?!?

Can I get an Amen?

#7 5 years ago

I think it has led to more competition (e.g. more making new games), but WOZ isn't any more interactive for me than any other pin.

WOZ does seem like a solidly built pin, but it is evolutionary (standard PC, bigger/color display), not revolutionary and certainly not worthy of being seen as being responsible for a new era in pinball.

#8 5 years ago

It offers something a little different than we are used to, but in no way is revolutionary.

Quoted from jfh:

WOZ does seem like a solidly built pin, but it is evolutionary (standard PC, bigger/color display), not revolutionary and certainly not worthy of being seen as being responsible for a new era in pinball.

To me that big klunky box of a computer in the cabinet is a step backwards. The evolution is in MMr controller boards, P-ROC and perhaps the new Stern system.

26
#9 5 years ago

Woz set a new standard in high prices.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from HomeBrew:

Woz set a new standard in high prices.

BUT, you've got to admit, the price was the one thing Jack got right.

Had he charged $4,500 for the standards, he would not be hanging on right now.

#11 5 years ago

JJ is definitely high quality "Modern" pinball but the days of revolutionary pinball are over. It's a different era now and gaming is going a different path. WOZ and the best of the current games is keeping pinball relevant with dignity and there is nothing wrong with that.

#12 5 years ago

Yes, it revolutionized pinball so well that people no longer want to buy Stern games and a cost cutting game from 2010 with poor DMD resolution would never sell in a post WoZ environment.

#13 5 years ago

WOZLE is truly different. Most of the game from cabinet to Playfield is a great improvement over my other pins.
I like sterns as I own 28 of them, but when other themes are released with JJPs designs, all others will advance
their designs as well. If the other manufacturers duplicated what I received with WOZ , their price would be much
higher. Yes it will influence quality and innovation.

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

BUT, you've got to admit, the price was the one thing Jack got right.
Had he charged $4,500 for the standards, he would not be hanging on right now.

I think he got a few other things right, too.

10
#15 5 years ago

Maybe the Hobbit will shock the pinball world but I think the theme of WOZ really hurt the overall technological advancements of JJP first pin. No matter how great you can make a pin for me anyway if the theme sucks then I just can't get into it, definitely could tell with my time playing WOZ that its great build quality and beautiful to look at but man what a bad theme. Dutch Pinball and SkitB made much better choices for a first game. JMO

#16 5 years ago

The first pin was a novelty and prepaid by the masses..... And lots of drama surrounded it obviously.

I think the success (or lack thereof) of the 2nd title will be more telling.... If they can ship TH without all the shenanigians we saw with WOz, THEN Stern might take JJP seriously. If that happens, we might see Stern respond/react.... So far they havejt really needed to..... Except to see the market price for pins has gone up.

Id LOVE for Stern to react by kicking things up a notch.... Mustang certainly didnt do that

#17 5 years ago

Whether it is revolutionary or not will be clear down the road when we look back years from now. I believe it will be seen as pivotal, but a lot will depend on where pinball is a decade from now.

As a game it has no equal, IMO, it's superior to any Stern by a mile, and I've come to the conclusion since the latest code update that there is not a better B/W game either, (never thought I would say that!!)

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from dgpinball:

Whether it is revolutionary or not will be clear down the road when we look back years from now. I believe it will be seen as pivotal, but a lot will depend on where pinball is a decade from now.
As a game it has no equal, IMO, it's superior to any Stern by a mile, and I've come to the conclusion since the latest code update that there is not a better B/W game either, (never thought I would say that!!)

And that's saying something when you have 96 machines. Whaaaaaaaaat???

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from HomeBrew:

Woz set a new standard in high prices.

So I sometimes think if he had been "Texas Jack" or "Rural America Jack" or "Mexico Jack" the price point could have been a lot better. Jersey is not known as a low-tax mecca; Northern Jersey - the exburbs of NYC really - is not where one thinks of for reasonable priced factory space or economical labor (especially if it is a union shop).

But, the market seems to have borne the price point and had he done it anywhere else and he wouldn't really be Jersey Jack.

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

14
#20 5 years ago

Yes in terms of pinball tech, quality, value and code support.

Tech: Implementation of an HD LCD screen, RGB LED lighting, the diagnostic menu, stereo sound, headphone jack on the outside of the machine. All of these things are typically not included with a pin.

Quality: There's nothing else out there like it. Even the interior of the cabinet and underside of the playfield scream quality. Also the powder coat on the LE is beautiful and doesn't easily chip unlike some other pins I've seen. All of this ties into JJP's attention to detail. If something is wrong JJP offers great customer service.

Value: WOZ is the only pin in production actually worth a $7.5k-$8k asking price. 5 magnets, 2 mini playfields, 2 mini outlane games, crystal ball toy, monkey magnet toy, spinning house and included topper. With some modern games you are lucky to get one toy.

Code: A deep and complete Keith Johnson and Ted Estes ruleset through regular code updates. Enough said

#21 5 years ago

I like the LCD, but I would hardly call that "revolutionizing" pinball.

I don't see it much at all when I'm playing either.

I know there's more to WoZ than the LCD, like the non flickering LEDs which are very cool, but still not something that I'd consider revolutionary.

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from Banker:

WOZLE is truly different. Most of the game from cabinet to Playfield is a great improvement over my other pins.
I like sterns as I own 28 of them, but when other themes are released with JJPs designs, all others will advance
their designs as well. If the other manufacturers duplicated what I received with WOZ , their price would be much
higher. Yes it will influence quality and innovation.

Ditto that, and yes they have raised the bar in a lot of areas…..

For anybody to think Stern isn't worried about losing sales and competition then you have zero business sense…. Hopefully they continue to improve and make some great pins.

Jpop is raising the bar even higher in other areas, albeit much higher prices!

#23 5 years ago

An LCD display in a pinball machines seems pretty revolutionary to me. Kinda like going from this old car radio (DMD) to a new Tesla with an LCD (WOZ's display). The older radio is cool but I wouldn't pay the same price for both cars offering the tech options below, lol.

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#24 5 years ago

I just hope Hobbit runs on all cylinders.

I love the theme, but will it be fun?

#25 5 years ago

After waiting for years to get my LE, seeing other's games arrive (and sometimes depart) and every time I saw one on location it was broken, I bailed on mine.
Finally got to actually play one last month.
It was pretty.
Not all that much fun for me tho.
Game wasn't level, but played nice. A few games was enough for me. Won an extra game and left the credit on the machine.
After all that wait, glad I bailed.
It was very pretty tho.
Revolutionary?
Not by me.

#26 5 years ago

I think it is a pretty amazing game. The use of RGB LEDs is really the coolest feature of the game and makes it just a jaw dropper when people play it for the first time. I was pretty skeptical of JJP being able to pull this off and the code that my game shipped with was pretty disappointing, but what Keith and team have squeezed out of this game is simply amazing. Will it hold up over time? Don't know. What I do know is that when I was playing it today I had an absolute blast playing it.

#27 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I like the LCD, but I would hardly call that "revolutionizing" pinball.
I don't see it much at all when I'm playing either.
I know there's more to WoZ than the LCD, like the non flickering LEDs which are very cool, but still not something that I'd consider revolutionary.

If the LCD isnt revolutionary, its certainly a major "evolutionary" step.

Im hoping to see even more integration of the LCD with TH.... I think it will be a baby step closer to "evolutionary" - certainly more innovation than weve seen from Stern lately.... Maybe EVER.

Having said that, a pinball is more the sum of its parts (or toys). THAT is why im anxious for TH.

10
#28 5 years ago

I can't answer this yet because I haven't received mine yet. : ( Whaaaaaaa!!! Yes that's me crying whaaaaaa!!! That's my 10 yr old daughter crying that I bought this pin for her b-day 3yrs ago.

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

An LCD display in a pinball machines seems pretty revolutionary to me.

Of course it does. To you.

Quoted from lowepg:

If the LCD isnt revolutionary, its certainly a major "evolutionary" step.

Good for you knowing the difference between the two terms. I'd rather have an LCD screen than not have one. It's not revolutionary by any means. Evolutionary I can accept.

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Of course it does. To you.

and of course it does not to you, lol.

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

and of course it does not to you, lol. Especially since its in WOZ!

The LCD screen is not revolutionary in any way.

Just because it's arguably an improvement doesn't make it revolutionary.

Quoted from TaylorVA:

The use of RGB LEDs is really the coolest feature of the game and makes it just a jaw dropper when people play it for the first time.

I agree, and find this more impressive than the LCD screen.

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from Hawkeyepin:

I remember some comments during it's production that the quality and interactivity would usher in a new pinball era. Some time has gone by to evaluate WOZ's impact. What do you think?

How many games have ever ushered in a new era of pinball? And how many could now? It sounds like a pretty tall order that nobody could meet. However, I find my WOZ to be a blast to play. And it usherd in the age of my other games getting played less. But there is no manufacturer anywhere that can usher in a new era of pinball. The industry just isn't big enough anymore. And even if it could happen, it could only be seen in hindsight.

#33 5 years ago

Revolution is such a strong word.
No it did not.

11
#34 5 years ago

It certainly started a revolution on pinside.

#35 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

An LCD display in a pinball machines seems pretty revolutionary to me.

LCD displays and the cool service menus were done long before WOZ though.

New Canasta.jpg

My Guns N Roses used to have a headphone jack and that was 20 years ago.

Laser War had stereo sound back 30 years ago

Many people saw AC/DC or ST with RGB LEDs long before they got their WOZ (some of my clients still don't have their WOZ).

-

WOZ has lots of cool features, but revolutionary will probably be more accurately applied to the Multimorphic.

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from Wamprat:

Revolution is such a strong word.
No it did not.

I was thinking about what would qualify as "revolutionary"

Id consider pinball 2k revolutionary.... But... That didn't turn out too well

Different question:
Do we really WANT revolutionary? I mean, a huge part of pinballs appeal is nostalgia. A radically different design (revolutionary?!) might not really be what pinballs current fanbase really wants.

Anyways, just some random musings...

For me, im happy with some 'evolution".... and perhaps mire importantly some "creativity."

#37 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

LCD displays and the cool service menus were done long before WOZ though.

My Guns n Roses used to have a headphone jack and that was 20 years ago.
Laser War had stereo sound back 30 years ago
Many people saw AC/DC or ST with RGB LEDs long before they got their WOZ (some of my clients still don't have their WOZ).
-
WOZ has lots of cool features, but revolutionary will probably be more accurately applied to the Multimorphic.

New Canasta.jpg 71 KB

Oh no, here we go with that game again. Really? That game...

This menu compares to WOZ's? LOL!

With Guns and Roses having a headphone jack 20 years ago and Laser Wars stereo sound 30 years ago I wonder why Stern doesn't include either in 2014?

#38 5 years ago

Well....he sure made a lot of money for Stern. They jacked up their prices on their LE games as soon as JJP announced their pricing!

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

With Guns and Roses having a headphone jack 20 years ago and Laser Wars stereo sound 30 years ago I wonder why Stern doesn't include either in 2014?

'Cause nobody cared about either one.

The two times I've plugged in my headphones into a WOZ, the jacks did not work anyway.

#40 5 years ago

Stuff like flippers, pop bumpers, SS w/memory (so you could expand/save multiplayer scoring features) were revolutionary, IMO. Ramps.... not quite so revolutionary. DMD and LCD displays--evolutionary at best.

#41 5 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Yes, it revolutionized pinball so well that people no longer want to buy Stern games and a cost cutting game from 2010 with poor DMD resolution would never sell in a post WoZ environment.

How many thousands of games has Stern sold since the first WOZ hit the streets?

-6
#42 5 years ago

The WOZ LCD is a waste.

If you're too busy looking at the LCD, then you're not looking at the ball.

Don't forget, pinball machines act as art pieces when turned off. WOZ has a very big dark space staring right at you.

Just my 2 cents.

But who am I to tell anyone not to like something. People love WOZ & TZ. I'm not much a fan of either.

#43 5 years ago
Quoted from JoeGrenuk:

How many thousands of games has Stern sold since the first WOZ hit the streets?

Enough to make money selling me new boards for my AC/DC and XmenLE that they screwed up and would not replace on warranty.

#44 5 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Don't forget, pinball machines act as art pieces when turned off.

No they don't. They're giant pieces of electric commercial gaming equipment that are turned off when they're off.

#45 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

With Guns and Roses having a headphone jack 20 years ago

My Zaccaria Time Machine has a headphone jack and that was 31 years ago. Granted it's a 1/4" jack but it has one nonetheless.

Flippers were revolutionary. Maybe even EM to SS could be argued. Everything else is evolutionary.

#46 5 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Yes, it revolutionized pinball so well that people no longer want to buy Stern games and a cost cutting game from 2010 with poor DMD resolution would never sell in a post WoZ environment.

Yeah cause nobody would even consider buying a cost cutting game like lets say Ironman now days.

#47 5 years ago

Absolutely they act as art pieces, otherwise the manufacturers wouldn't put the time into making them look good.

#48 5 years ago

Love it or hate it, it's very different from the new Sterns currently available.
I hope that both JJP and Stern can take the best parts of WOZ and use them moving forward.
Personally, the game does little for me. I'm not sure I appreciate wide body machines, and the theme doesn't thrill me either.
If, however, they took ACDC, Metallica, or Xmen (I think the game would be much better with more space for everything on the playfield, as it plays too cramped in my opinion), and merged it with WOZ, it could be the ultimate pin.
JJP has done some great things with WOZ, especially given it's his first release.
I don't think WOZ has revolutionized pinball with it's lukewarm reception, but I think Jack's on the right path.
I'm looking forward to seeing Smog and what it does on The Hobbit. I expect it will be better than the average bash toy.

#49 5 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

The WOZ LCD is a waste.
If you're too busy looking at the LCD, then you're not looking at the ball.
Don't forget, pinball machines act as art pieces when turned off. WOZ has a very big dark space staring right at you.
Just my 2 cents.
But who am I to tell anyone not to like something. People love WOZ & TZ. I'm not much a fan of either.

Speak for yourself. I find the lcd very useful. There is quite a bit of information coming across that thing. A dmd is kind of useless in that it is difficult to properly display anything really besides a score.

#50 5 years ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

Speak for yourself. I find the lcd very useful. There is quite a bit of information coming across that thing. A dmd is kind of useless in that it is difficult to properly display anything really besides a score.

If you can look at the ball and decipher the information on the LCD at the same time, then you're a better pinball player than me.

There's 4 quadrants on that screen. To catch the ball and look up at the LCD, to me, destroys the flow of the game.

But as I stated earlier, who am I to judge? There are machines I don't care for, that others do…and there's machines I care for, that other's don't. It doesn't ruin my experience playing the machines I like.

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