No, people are just asking ridiculous prices so no one is buying.

It's all in the marketing.

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I've sold 4 pins in the last two months. All sold within a week. If you price fair and are honest they still sell.

From what I've read and seen, summer is a little slower with all the vacations and related expenses going on. I'm trying to save for another one, but the vacation, insurance and summer tax bills are keeping me from gathering the funds. There is one used one that I have an eye on that hasn't sold all summer at a decent price, plus a NIB one that I want. I gotta get my wife to get another job. (Just joking - but she is a pinhead too.)

Yes, just like every 2 weeks when someone has asked this question over the last 15 years, the market is slowing down and prices are about to plummet.

For sure this time!

Not down here in Australia. Plenty of new entrants looking to buy their first pin and relive their youth. Most of the new entrants have been priced out of the traditional go to channels such as dealers and ebay flippers.

I have found if you list it for a sensible price without exorbitant profiteering attached then the listings generally don't have to be up for more than 24-48 hours.

You will get at least a dozen genuine inquiries on the first day after you weed out the time wasters, AA loyalists and obvious onsellers and identify those who genuinely just want their first pin to play.

Ask the genuine inquirers for a holding deposit to make sure they follow through and you can then delist the ad since the deal is as good as finalised.

This method works every time for me.

Feast or famine. Hope you're hungry, it's almost time!

Yes

LOL.

I can tell you I'm still getting tons of interest, even though I'm not ready to sell yet (I've got a ton of home stuff to do as I'm traveling for work a lot this month, no pinball time lately)

Sold my last two games in a week. Priced right they move.

However I cannot deny the growing trend of higher than normal prices with "this is what I have into this game" syndrome and I can't lose a cent.

This will pass though.

the pinball market is doing fine. every month or so for as long as i've been on Pinside, someone makes the case that it's on the brink of collapse or whatever, but used pinball prices have been reasonably stable over the last 5 years as far as i can tell. (new in box prices are another story ... but there's millions of used games out there, nobody is being forced to buy new).

also i very much contend your assertion that "most people do this for a living". i think most people buying and selling games are merely hobbyists. in terms of overpriced games not selling -- honestly i think it's human nature to overvalue one's own possessions. i think it stems more from pride than greed. i think many people who list overpriced games aren't really trying to rip someone off, they're just a little biased about the value of the things they own and the quality of their handywork.

although to be fair, yes, there are people who just put games up knowing they're overpriced, just hoping for a sucker to bite. it seems like there are more of these people than there really are, though, because it's their games that sit and sit and sit on the marketplace, so you see them a disproportionate number of times. meanwhile, the good deals only get seen a small number of times.

With the prices of 20-30 year old games where they are at lately, it made more sense to me to spend a little more on NIB games. I bought a MET pro and Star Trek pro in the last 2 years and I am very happy with both.

You're always going to have the people who want $1750 for their Williams Tri Zone. That in itself doesn't signal a collapse or slowdown.

Now that pinball is "out there" more than it was ten years ago, with more leagues and groups and forums bringing people together, plenty of machines are now changing hands privately amongst local collectors or within local pinball communities, and don't hit Craigslist or Pinside. I'd always rather my machine stay local, and deal with a known entity, rather than a stranger who brings a bunch of unknowns to the table...I'm sure others feel the same way.

The market hasn't "slown down" really, it's just moved off-line.

The market is full of overpriced pins. Like...crazy overpriced. Those tend to sit...and sit.
Over time, I am hoping this will level out.
Unfortunately, having been around this market for 25 years+, I have yet to see a real plateau or leveling out.
The prices seem to keep rising, and at some point, I don't believe it is sustainable.
I thought more new pins and more manufacturers would bring prices down a bit.
Actually it appears to have brought the lower end pin prices up instead.
I'm not into this to make money. I just want to be able to participate without getting a second mortgage.

yes it is and most guys won't admit this because its basically their retirement fund. Lotta money will be lost in the coming years this market is definitely changing and teetering on the edge, just to many games out there.

The glut of NIB pins will eventually make early DMD pins less desirable - we are in an intersection of tech where new pins are coming out by the month, and there are new buyers and new tech for enhancing older pins is at a pinnacle. The next big breakthrough may be a power driver board at lower cost that can still drive all these mods people are putting in..

Yep.

What is different now? Well the glut of $8k plus pins that have hit and are about to the hit the market are going to sell for a LOT less on the secondary market.

THLE for under $6k now, a Black SM sits at $6500 (used to fetch $8k all day, stupidly) and so many others to come.

$6k-$6500 is about the sweet spot range for the high end pins for buyers it looks like. Throw Woz into that category too.

I don't really give a shit, just a hobby.

As far as EM machines are concerned, Buyers have not yet accepted the higher values these are worth. Basically still looking for free-300 dollar machines that are no longer there. This trend is pushed by price police, self-anointed "Experts", as well as worthless Price Guides.
As soon as hoarders release a glut of project machines from their personal Warehouse X the Market will see slow activity.

I am waiting for LOTR to finally fall below $5k so I can cram one into the game room with out too much drama..

I wouldn't count on that, games are getting cheaper for international buyers. That will be a new leg for higher prices or at least provide support for them...possibly.

Until the NIB games do something on the playfield better than the DMD-era games, that's not going to happen. The appeal of those games isn't the score display - it's the GAMES. Nothing in the LCD era has upstaged the 90's games yet. A HD color score display doesn't make those games undesirable.

A finite number of collectors with a finite amount of funds and especially space. Since very few machines get physically destroyed and new ones get build the supply is increasing while demand is about the same. That meas prices will go down. Best example is MM/MMr. 3 years ago MM would fetch $10+K. Those days are gone for good. The same is soon coming to a MB, TOTAN or CC near you.

I've noticed a lot of new first time buyers on pinside lately. The stargate I sold awhile back was to a first timer. Definitely not a finite number of collectors the way I see it... seems to be growing.

I dunno, Dialed In is like 90s Lawlor WPC on steroids. I think it's the first one to really recapture that magic era.

That's true - and that's mostly due to all the wackiness on the playfield. However, most of those original themed Lawlor games are still "cheap" by pin standards...so they're not really in "competition" with Dialed-In, a $9000 game. I don't see Fun House, Road Show, Whirlwind, Earthshaker, No Good Gofers' value being affected by new games at all.

Bottom line

I don't care what title pin it is

You buy it for $8k-$9k Nib

If you sell it a year later it will be in the $6-$7k range

If you can't deal with that then wait and pick up a "bargain" later

I truly hope you
Are right!!

Funhouse has been going up, TAF is out of control and TZ has always been pricey. You don't see
roadshow going up I guess...

Yes they have. Code is vastly deeper and more complex now than 20+ years ago. Compare WOZ to MM in complexity and diversity, it's not even close.

True but games like afm, mm, tz and most wpc in that era are still more fun to play with lots of neat stuff going on the playfield. This whole deep code thing is vastly overrated imo. I tried the newer deeper stuff and well they are gone... they are just missing that special something. Look at the big sales of the remakes.... just proves that deep code os not super important.

Up until 12 months ago you could throw some leds and a colour DMD into a '90s BW pin and there was virtually nothing to distinguish it from a late model Stern on cursory aesthetic appearances which is what most entry level consumers ultimately really only care about.

It's going to make anyone contemplating releasing a new pin with anything less than a full colour display obsolete in comparison from the outset.

American Pickers is a prime example of People embracing the past.

The latest trend in cars is to not restore them.... Collectors want the original dirt from a barn find that's been sitting for 30 years and the story to go along with it.

I'm new to buying pinball machines. I did enjoy casually playing in the past but recently seeing the latest advances (Hobbit blew me away) at Silverball museum really got me into researching JJP, finding Pinside and I soon realized all the jems of the past.

It's been such a fun journey to go from reading about all the great classics here (and learning their abbreviation) to going to locations and actually playing those games. It's been like a trip though history and appreciating the advances and ideas each game represents.

I just bought my first machine, a TAF. (And there were several buyers who wanted it after I committed). While it's in really nice shape, I do embrace it's age! I've enjoyed doing some Minor repair and cleaning various connectors and boards. It's just great to have a piece of history in my living room, that's also a playable fun game. I thought I'd just keep it for a time until I figured out what recent game or NIB to get, but I'm really getting attached to the Addams, and will try to squeeze in one more. (Either a DI, JJP4 or houdini)

If I didn't have space limitations I'd end up owning several pins from various eras, my own mini silverball museum.

Don't even get me started. This is the most fun and addicting hobby I have ever had.
-Mike

Seems hard to imagine this trend picking up in pinball. Not cleaning up a game? You're just asking for it to destroy itself eventually

The best person to answer this is waspinat0r . He buys and sells about 3 games a week. The SAME games.

I see 2 things in the past year:

1. Very few classics available for purchase. When they are available, they sell quickly or a priced sky high. Titles previously called B list gmaes are even harder to come by or a priced 30-50% higher than just 2-3 years ago.

2. Lots of newer games that are not selling and prices continuing to drop. There is a whole new influx of pinball hobbyists that have no idea how to do much work (that is fine and their choice, but not sustainable if you want to actually see all the hobby has to offer and be able to keep even the newest games functioning for a while) and these people have collections built quickly of all NIB 5-9k games. They are now either out of space or looking for the next new thing and cutting loose the "older" games that are now 24-36 months old. These are the title that are sitting. For a while the continually increasing NIB market helped to push these used games along but that seems to have stopped and people are getting more comfortable with the cost to drive it off the lot. Some are not adjusting and games are sitting. Others that want to sell are dropping prices to make it happen.

Check out this Craig's listing.

indianapolis.craigslist.org link

$1,200.00 Flaking and the machine started to smoke! I know it's a great title but way to many problems for $1,200.00! The world has gone crazy.

Rdoyle - I wasn't suggesting games would be left as is- just giving examples why older games may not loose their appeal and even cosmetic flaws may eventually be embraced.

You missed my point. Does WOZ make MM undesirable? MMr is still in production. My point is sound. Depth doesn't = better. Depth doesn't = better stuff on the playfield. Complex isn't always better. MM has the perfect amount of depth any pinball would need for most to find it super fun. I like "Keith deep" games like LOTR, TSPP, and Hobbit a bit not every game needs that. That depth isn't required to be modern, fun, or good. Games like MM and AFM really do have that perfect sweet spot - easy to pick up, enough nuance to figure out as you go, and fun factor that keeps them relevant 20 years later.

Road Show used to be a $1200-$1800 game. I think it's generally in the $3k's now. Will DI make it drop? Doubt it.

I know - sorry, I wasn't implying you thought that - I was just reacting the "what if?"

I've noticed a lot more "trade" listing recently than "for sale" if that says anything.

just means summer...

That is 100% subjective unless your going to say your opinion is objective. While not everyone will say more and deeper code with more dots, callouts, and music is better than more simple times, it is substantially different.

If all you were commenting on was complexity of playfields mechanics then I agree with you but I believe complex code is a huge part of modern pinball.

Personally, I'm preferring simpler games these days myself by and large. But simpler like Quicksilver and Sorcerer.

It's subjective and objective. The fact that a 20 year old game is STILL in demand and people still love it OBJECTIVELY shows that what MM does is desirable. You may not like it, or be bored of it....sure...but the fact that they were selling for $20k before the remake & the fact that the remake is still selling shows that MM and it's design/code is loved. AFM, too...similar style & code...the remake is selling great.

The problem is, complex code isn't always good. They don't have enough time to program, test, and refine to make something that's complex AND fun. IMO only Keith & Lyman are good at it, and they take forever to do it....everyone else that has attempted "depth" have created games that just have tons of content...which just feels like chopping wood thru endless modes & nothing really ties together, or it's resulted in convoluted math-chess like GOT/SW.

I think TSPP & LOTR are masterpieces of deep code in a character/story context, with Hobbit getting very close...and Metallica and AC/DC are the best deep code games in an eccentric/nuanced context...Stern hasn't outdone themselves with code since Metallica. Aside from those deep games, I'd much rather play something like MM, Tron, IM, BSD, Shadow - any 90's game really...games that have code that matches their design perfectly, offer super fun experiences, relatively easy to understand but challenging to master.

Actually I think it causes the opposite - since NIB games are priced in the stratosphere, it makes cheaper games more appealing, but given the limited supply that causes prices to creep up. Road Show will never get to NIB pricing but it's certainly on an upward trend like all pinball, including EMs.

Not sure when the tipping point will be where the inventory of "new" games will be enough to drive supply up enough for prices to drop again, but honestly with production being 1/10th of what it was in the 90s, even with several companies making games, I suspect it'll be a long time.

Exactly - it's all relative. When NIB games were less than $4k, Road Show was less than $2k....as NIB went up, "cheap" became relative. All the games were $600-$1800 when I started collecting are all $2500-$4000 now. That seems BONKERS to me...buuuut, for new collectors, it makes sense compared to the NIB or high end scene. No reason those games will be dropping any time soon. Remember when WOZ was about to hit, people said all DMD games would soon be obsolete and drop in price? LOL ...we KNOW that didn't happen, but funny that people are still expecting it.