(Topic ID: 199013)

Has the definition of "restored" changed? What am i missing??


By Oldschool77

3 years ago



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  • 17 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by beelzeboob
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    #1 3 years ago

    Sorry to rant, but in my mind if something is listed as "restored" it should look absolutely day 1 new (I understand Doing a restoration, is different then calling something completely restored when selling it). However i see a lot of ads where people have a nicely shopped out a game and called it "fully restored", however it still has all the signs of the wear and tear and paint loss typically associated with these games. Paint missing around bumpers, lifted/worn inserts, mismatched buttons, worn out coin slots, warped plastics, etc. Nothing that i would run away from, except it's usually priced as "restored" too, when the reality is it's just been shopped out.

    Am i being overly critical of people and their use of that term? I feel like "restored" is the new "HUO"!

    #2 3 years ago

    Yes, people misuse the term.

    They should probably use "shopped" or "refurbished" instead.

    #3 3 years ago

    Restored can mean whatever you want it to, and like used car sales its a buyer beware situation.

    Some people can take the opposite side and say "restored" games should not include games full of replacement parts (playfields, plastics etc...) as is that restored (i.e. what originally was meant to describe fixing/improving what was there), or rebuilt with new parts?

    At the end of the day its just a word.

    #4 3 years ago
    Quoted from BC_Gambit:

    Restored can mean whatever you want it to, and like used car sales its a buyer beware situation.
    Some people can take the opposite side and say "restored" games should not include games full of replacement parts (playfields, plastics etc...) as is that restored (i.e. what originally was meant to describe fixing/improving what was there), or rebuilt with new parts?
    At the end of the day its just a word.

    Good points!

    #5 3 years ago

    Yes you are right. It is happening here in Australia as well. People often using the term restored when it should be shopped or even refurbished as forceflow has said.
    Restored should probably have two categories also. Fully restored or partial restored. Like when cabinet work is all done but playfield still needs attention. It's frustrating to a lot of people who have been around pinball for a while.

    #6 3 years ago

    what is it called when you just clean a game up and make it play good, but not fix some PF wear or a busted plastic. Thats what I do....

    #7 3 years ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    what is it called when you just clean a game up and make it play good, but not fix some PF wear or a busted plastic. Thats what I do....

    I would think that falls in the "shopped" spectrum. In my mind if the rubbers are new and the PF has been waxed/cleaned it's shopped. Sometimes it's nice to just wax it and enjoy it and not get all hung up in every tiny detail especially on a players game.

    When i shop a game, i remove all the star posts,plastics and bumpers. Everything gets novus and wax. Replace any bad bulbs, then reassemble with new rubbers. Most times i do more (new bumper bodies and caps, new flipper bats, new posts, touch ups/mylar bad areas, LEDs etc.) but that's my minimum to call a game shopped.

    #8 3 years ago

    What would you call a total tear down and rebuild. And adding things like a clear coated pf, lighted flipper buttons, a better speaker system, new decals, and stuff like that! I would think custom pin would be a good term.
    I do agree with what you are saying though. But it is deff a buyer beware situation!

    #9 3 years ago

    I actually think Pinside is partially to blame for this... When you list a game advert is gives you choices and nothing really fits the "fully tuned up, coils rebuilt, all fresh rubber, working 100% category. I see people picking "restored'" as the descriptor because it is the best one available.

    Need something between "Fully Restored" and "Shopped" to clarify when a game was really gone over.

    I liek the word "fully Refurbished" as it connotates a bit more that "Shopped" but does not infer the game was restored to D1 condition.

    condition (resized).JPG

    #10 3 years ago

    Yep...

    Restored is often used whereas only a rag has been wiped on and the rubbers changed... This is a synonym of fast money (even in Europe)
    Refurbished is for that more appropriate (even though...)

    Restoration is when you set back the material (whatever it is) close to brand new, or at least in a state where wear is not visible anymore...

    BR

    Eric

    #11 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I liek the word "fully Refurbished" as it connotates a bit more that "Shopped" but does not infer the game was restored to D1 condition.

    Okay, sounds like a plan. So we'll go for "Refurbished"? or "Fully Refurbished"?

    #12 3 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    Okay, sounds like a plan. So we'll go for "Refurbished"? or "Fully Refurbished"?

    I like "Fully Refurbished (torn down and cleaned, coils cleaned and sleeved, flippers rebuilt, fresh rubber and lights, etc... Plays 100%)"

    Basically setting an expectation is good.

    As others have said, it is all just words and will always be buyer beware.

    In short "fully refurbished" is better than just "refurbished" IMHO

    #13 3 years ago
    Quoted from heni1977:

    What would you call a total tear down and rebuild. And adding things like a clear coated pf, lighted flipper buttons, a better speaker system, new decals, and stuff like that! I would think custom pin would be a good term.
    I do agree with what you are saying though. But it is deff a buyer beware situation!

    overkill

    =P

    #14 3 years ago
    Quoted from heni1977:

    What would you call a total tear down and rebuild.

    Undocumented HUO. (In my For Sale ads.)

    #15 3 years ago

    Why not add "New out of box" while we're at it since I seen a bunch of people use that. If people were honest in their description and took good pictures then it would not matter what they called it.

    #16 3 years ago

    All that matters is condition. The seller can say anything they want about it.

    #17 3 years ago

    I also don't consider a game "restored" when some hack job restoration job has been done to it either, such as using varathane as a clear coat or bad paint touch ups, ect.

    #18 3 years ago

    In most other hobbies, a restoration is making it look factory fresh. No mods, no hacks, no 3rd party hardware. We tend to do "custom restorations" in our hobby. That's beside the OP's point though.

    A shop job used to mean more than Windex, Novus, and rubber too. A shop job used to be a topside teardown, repairs, and rebuild. That's what it used to mean to shop a machine. Somewhere along the line we let shopping out mean to wipe the exposed areas down, put in LEDs, and change the flipper and sling rubbers.

    I've learned to adapt my terminology to fit what people are most commonly using, but here's how I would personally like to define the terms we use. We would obviously have additional qualifiers in each (dirty, clean, cabinet fade, etc.).

    Restored - Brought back to full original status, no wear, damage, or custom elements. Fully stock, looks like it's fresh out of the box.

    Custom Restoration - Game restored back to "like new" status with customization included. May have new toys, custom art, improvements to original design or mechs.

    HUO - Home use only, condition needs to be clarified.

    Fully Shopped - Topside teardown/cleaning/repairs, all mechs underneath serviced, goofy hacks properly repaired, entire machine cleaned, bulbs replaced, rubber replaced. Wear on playfield usually not addressed. Broken plastics replaced.

    Partially Shopped - Deep cleaning with common maintenance performed (flipper rebuild, new rubber, bulbs, etc.). May still have need for new plastics or could still have some hokey hacks that need to be addressed. Game should function at or very near 100%.

    Off-Route Condition - Not much addressed aside from powered up to see how it's held up in the wild. More info can be provided, such as how clean it is and if it's playing well.

    As-Is - May not have even been turned on to test. You see a pic, you base everything on that.

    #19 3 years ago

    I'm not sure about "Day 1 new"...but "restored" should mean pretty damn close to that. I always try to make a machine look better than factory when I'm doing a restoration. But I have lines I won't cross. One example is that greyish corrosion you find on the metal of Gottlieb EM games. I can clean and polish all I want, but that stuff seldom goes away. Should I send it out to be chromed? Aw, hell, no! Some people chrome their under-playfield metals, and I really think that's overkill. As long as everything is cleaned up, repainted and redecaled, etc., the game is fully restored. And that means that you stripped the game down to wood and wire. None of this masking off the lower inside half of your cabinet bullshit when you're sanding and painting.

    #20 3 years ago

    My confidence has now been restored.

    #21 3 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    One example is that greyish corrosion you find on the metal of Gottlieb EM games. I can clean and polish all I want, but that stuff seldom goes away. Should I send it out to be chromed? Aw, hell, no!

    I can usually get that stuff shiny again with a CLR bath followed by metal cleaner and polish and lots of patience. I don't know why I do it that way, seeing how I have access to an industrial tumbler. But it works.

    #22 3 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    I can usually get that stuff shiny again with a CLR bath followed by metal cleaner and polish and lots of patience. I don't know why I do it that way, seeing how I have access to an industrial tumbler. But it works.

    And a touch of elbow grease!

    #23 3 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    I can usually get that stuff shiny again with a CLR bath followed by metal cleaner and polish and lots of patience. I don't know why I do it that way, seeing how I have access to an industrial tumbler. But it works.

    I've tried all that stuff, along with a bench buffer as well. There's just a point where it makes no sense to me to be spending that much time on the stuff under the playfield. Switch replacements, etc....of course. But shiny metal under there doesn't improve the gameplay.

    #24 3 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    I've tried all that stuff, along with a bench buffer as well. There's just a point where it makes no sense to me to be spending that much time on the stuff under the playfield. Switch replacements, etc....of course. But shiny metal under there doesn't improve the gameplay.

    Yeah, I agree. It's why I shop games, not restore. Haha.

    #25 3 years ago

    Restored = Looks like factory. Labels should be clean, metal should be plated/polished. All parts (top and bottom) should look new, both cosmetically and mechanically. Electronics should be clean, tidy, and fully functional. Should not have significant omissions like lacks backbox printing, rusty receiver, hacked boards, etc.

    (if you aren't doing full tear-downs and sending stuff out to plating, washing harnesses, etc... you aren't going to be a 'restored' game)

    Refurbished = Game is brought back to 100% function and completion. Game should be clean, but may have some defects that would only be fixed by a full restoration (playfield wear, plating issues, old dirty harnesses, repaired parts, worn ramps, etc). Relevant modernizations should be included (ground plug, updated lighting, etc). What is 'too much' to be overlooked here is difficult to define unilaterally but it usually is based on 'how much effort' or cost vs return. Purely cosmetic things with little return may persist, but should be noted. (Ex: unobtainium ramp is cracked, but functional, no replating coil brackets, etc). Things should be clean, but do not need to be 'like new' where it doesn't matter. No 'white glove' level here.

    I would not expect a refurbished game to have 'all new coil wrappers' or flawless cabinet. A refurbished game can show its age, a restored game should not.

    Shopped - The game is brought back to 100% functional, should be clean on all the top (not just where you can reach). Lights and rubber should be fresh, all mechs should work and be reliable. Replacements that are purely cosmetic (like cabinet touchups, repainting old wear, broken plastics, etc) should not be assumed, but significant issues should be noted. Ex: head is scratched up, Main ramp cracked, substitute parts used, etc). Do not expect Modernizations by default.. but if added, they should be noted.

    Complete and Functional - Game should play and reliably. Any major cosmetic and mechanical deficiencies should be noted. Expect the game to show it's age.

    As-In

    Unknown

    #26 3 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Restored = Looks like factory. Labels should be clean, metal should be plated/polished. All parts (top and bottom) should look new, both cosmetically and mechanically. Electronics should be clean, tidy, and fully functional. Should not have significant omissions like lacks backbox printing, rusty receiver, hacked boards, etc.
    (if you aren't doing full tear-downs and sending stuff out to plating, washing harnesses, etc... you aren't going to be a 'restored' game)

    You don't think chrome plating a coil bracket is a little over the top? I'd replace it before I'd plate it...it's cheaper.

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