(Topic ID: 78652)

Has STLE settled in somewhere in the top 15?


By edwinpblue

5 years ago



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  • 86 posts
  • 41 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by snaroff
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#1 5 years ago

I said last month that while I wouldn't say it's better than TAF or LOTR IMO it's right behind them. Has pinside thought of having a rating system that removes outliers or at least discounting outliers? It's a Shane that ANY game gets 1's. In point of fact I'd find it hard to believe any newer game is worthy of receiving anything less than 6's. I for one love my STLE pretty much almost as much as my LOTR, TAF and avatar. Ok. Let the stone throwing begin. I did just mention avatar in the sane sentence as lord of the rings.

#2 5 years ago

I rate Star Trek LE 8.380, Avatar LE 8.372. No problemo mentioning in the same sentence of greatness IMO. Love em both!

#3 5 years ago

Avatar le is a Very fun game just not as fun a stle

#4 5 years ago

Tough to see such new games pushing older tested titles out so quickly. Wonder if when these games are ten years old they will rank the same. Makes me think of the opposite happening with meta/ign/etc. PC games from way back still have upper 9's but a good game today struggles to get mid 8's in the scores. Matter of taste but will be interesting to see how people rank them long term.

#5 5 years ago

The law of averages takes over at some point. Every new release has an initial rash of high marks from honeymooners - XM, Avengers, MET all were #1 for a week or two, then top 10 for another few. But that is usually on something around 50-70 ratings and 20-35 comments.

ACDC has climbed up through the ranks and is a legit top 6 machine now. There are more than 500 ratings on it now, and the averages are there to support its rank.

STLE/Prem is already above 150 total ratings and 60+ comments. That is a solid base to build on from here. Metallica is at 214 ratings. XM at 243. The odds say that STLE is not going to have a run of terrible ratings upcoming. It should be fairly consistent, or even better as code is honed. If STLE was sitting in the top 10 still, with 50 or 60 total ratings, I would expect a drop down high teens to mid twenties. But that kind of drop would now take a bunch of really bad reviews to come in, with no more great reviews.

I think it is safe to say it is going to be top 12, with a chance to climb like ACDC. Ritchie seems to be really hitting his stride with Stern.

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from rockrand:

Avatar le is a Very fun game just not as fun a stle

Agreed. While my boys and I love avatar and, in point of fact it's our favorite game I would rank it 4th of 6 in my collection behind TAF, LOTR and STLE (in that order).

#7 5 years ago

I have bought many games and thought this is the best game ever, only to put 300 or so plays on them and then I was like MEH! With STLE I was loving it when I got it and after a few hundred games I am loving it even more than when I first got it. Can't wait for the power pack and maybe a few pin browser tweaks.
Killer game!
image-714.jpg

-2
#8 5 years ago

STLE should be #1, I've been playing pinball for 30plus years now and have owned most of the top pins out there. ST is in a league of it's own.

#9 5 years ago

30 games in my collection and STLE ranks #1 in my house. Wife plays it and she does not like pinball.

STLE may be the next Tron LE in pricing as I have yet to see a STLE come up for sale other than NIB. Did I miss any that came up for sale?

With that said, the update on MoPLE is supposed to be so huge that a change of heart may be coming

Was told we would definitely see MoPLE update within 30 days so that is exciting stuff! Game has such potential.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from sepins:

30 games in my collection and STLE ranks #1 in my house. Wife plays it and she does not like pinball.
STLE may be the next TRON LE in pricing as I have yet to see a STLE come up for sale other than NIB. Did I miss any that came up for sale?
With that said, the update on MoPLE is supposed to be so huge that a change of heart may be coming
Was told we would definitely see MoPLE update within 30 days so that is exciting stuff! Game has such potential.

I have yet to see a STLE HOU for sale as well, not sure if I missed any either. I even made offers to Coasterguy for his STLE, and he won't budge. I now have a NIB on order.

#11 5 years ago

It's still too early for this kind of talk.

#12 5 years ago

I don't agree that it's too early. Two weeks into my wolverine and I was ready to dump it but was talked out of it after being assured an awesome code update was coming. Ten games into hulk (at the shark club) and I knew it wasn't for me. A handful of games on Metallica pro and I was left wondering why the pins were creeping into the stratosphere. Two months into Star Trek LE and I cannot imagine selling (unless tron LE or bible rules apply.)

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from KillyKillall:

It's still too early for this kind of talk.

If Your info on pinside is correct You own one game and it is STtNG.

If this is true You will really regret not getting a STLE before price goes bonkers.

But I guess You haven't played STLE or You wouldn't have made the comment You made

-1
#14 5 years ago

haha dude thinks a brand new pin is gonna appreciate in value.

#15 5 years ago

Pinside game rankings are silly for the most part. The system is flawed and there is not much specifically to gleam from the data. READ the ratings is the only value. For example Caucausion2Step has some great write ups on almost every game he has review and they are pretty balanced. Find a good reviewer and read what they write if you want some value out of the system.

If you are only concerned with the # of a game then you have fallen for bad and biased data. This is evidence by most new games shooting to #1 in a few weeks because many have over rated during the honeymoon. Law of avgs helps over time, but so many ratings are biased (both up and down) by those manipulating the system because they are concerned with a # for their game.

Concerning STLE current position I think it just exemplifies how the system is broke when a game with far from finished code can be in the top 10. We all talk about code being so important, yet STLE sits at 9 with 141 ratings and METLE sits at 22 with 214 ratings. Just silly and shame on those that have rated it so high at this stage. You either need to learn to be more honest with your critiquing or you need to get out and play more finished pinball to get a better reference spectrum to judge. ST and MET are fun to shoot (isn't all pinball) but they lack so much substance we should not even be having a conversation about them at this point. When the code is done, then we should be talking about how they rate to each of us personally.

-6
#16 5 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

STLE should be #1, I've been playing pinball for 30plus years now and have owned most of the top pins out there. ST is in a league of it's own.

Three thumbs down, willing to bet either STTNG or WOZ owners. Sorry but it's true best pinball to date.

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from sepins:

If Your info on pinside is correct You own one game and it is STtNG.
If this is true You will really regret not getting a STLE before price goes bonkers.
But I guess You haven't played STLE or You wouldn't have made the comment You made

The price is already bonkers. Glad people are enjoying the latest LE.

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Three thumbs down, willing to bet either STTNG or WOZ owners. Sorry but it's true best pinball to date.

It's not a #1 pin........yet. It has everything to be #1 but the code still needs a lot of work for it to climb past the best. Not saying the code is bad, but it's not as good as acdc, LoTR, taf, SM, etc... But it's still early; it has room to go up...and room to go down.

#19 5 years ago

There is probably no way around people gaming the charts, but I do think retired pinsiders (who haven't logged in within 6 months or 1 year) should not have their votes tallied anymore into the rankings since their old scores are being held against new games that they have not and will never review.

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

It's not a #1 pin........yet. It has everything to be #1 but the code still needs a lot of work for it to climb past the best. Not saying the code is bad, but it's not as good as acdc, LoTR, taf, SM, etc... But it's still early; it has room to go up...and room to go down.

Couldn't agree more....MOPLE was number 1 when it first dropped too...people don't think that way now....now that the code is due for an update.

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Pinside game rankings are silly for the most part. The system is flawed and there is not much specifically to gleam from the data.

The data says otherwise: http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-prices-vs-ipdb-rank-graph

#22 5 years ago

What really annoys me is that now with there being essentially two spots for every new Stern, a lot of one-position games are getting knocked out of the top 100. This will end up being the top 50 pretty soon...

#23 5 years ago

100% hinges on code. Layout is cool but the code is kind of uninspired IMHO. I feel like it boils down to follow the different colored arrow mixed with shoot the big ship. I know there's more to it than that in the plans but it is what it is.

#24 5 years ago
Quoted from Captive_Ball:

Couldn't agree more....MOPLE was number 1 when it first dropped too...people don't think that way now....now that the code is due for an update.

MET LE even with its bare bone code is right now more fun to play then STLE. There is just something cool about trying to get 4x going on Metallica & its the closest thing to ACDC out there in the risk reward style of Play. STLE just doesnt have this yet & i'm not sure it ever will with the code team it has. Its still a great shooting pin & has insane flow but the code is lacking and the wizard modes are uninspired (Ropp Special) I traded away my LE for a Refinery Pro cause I have a Pro on location and it plays pretty much the same. The only thing i'll miss is the kickback & if they put a ball save in for the shield targets I wont even miss that. The Color changers are great but its just bling and doesnt add to the gameplay.

Its a nice package but I dont ever see it being in the same price range of BIBLE or Tron LE. Not when the Premium models are out there with pretty much everything except the Lasers in the cabinet & some back box bling.

#25 5 years ago

I finally got to play an STLE last night. Fun pin, but don't think it deserves to be top rated. Pin felt fast, but too easy. Didn't like the "dots"...theme integration was "meh". Much prefer the colored dots and theme integration on my STTNG. PF felt cramped…STTNG feels expansive. Sure, STLE is fast, but a dialed-in, waxed STTNG plays pretty fast/mean. Rules seemed boring (might feel differently with more play). Cabinet bling on the LE is nice…the emblem on the backbox is rich looking (unfortunately, the artwork on the back box is BORING). The PF in general looks much more impressive in person…liked the large inserts. Ship also looked cooler/larger than in pics. The infamous star field projector was underwhelming.

Wouldn't mind owning one, but I have no doubt that it wouldn't replace my other SR classics (AC/DC or STTNG). Just don't see this pin as a long term keeper…too easy…rules aren't compelling.

My 2$.

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from DnDPins:

What really annoys me is that now with there being essentially two spots for every new Stern, a lot of one-position games are getting knocked out of the top 100. This will end up being the top 50 pretty soon...

Yes, good point. I like someone's suggestion that all versions get folded into the top version's rank.

#27 5 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

…too easy…

too easy??? wow, tell me , when you made it to "5 year Mission", the final mode!
I have never been there, while I reach "final frontier" on my STTNG (which is very fast too) every 2 maybe 3 games...
Own and love both games, but STLE is way more challenging codewise

#28 5 years ago

The layered modes really make a difference as can go down as well as along. Big reason this title will have longevity.

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from sto:

too easy??? wow, tell me , when you made it to "5 year Mission", the final mode!
I have never been there, while I reach "final frontier" on my STTNG (which is very fast too) every 2 maybe 3 games...
Own and love both games, but STLE is way more challenging codewise

I've played STTNG since it was released and I played STLE one night (last night). My evaluation isn't based on reaching wizard modes or completing complex objectives. Most rule sets can't be fully observed in one evening. My comments were simply based on how long I could keep the ball in play and shot difficulty. The only shot I found tight/difficult was the WARP ramp on the left. When compared with other modern Sterns (IM, TRON, AC/DC, MET), ST felt far more forgiving. This isn't necessarily bad, just an observation.

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I've played STTNG since it was released and I played STLE one night (last night). My evaluation isn't based on reaching wizard modes or completely complex objectives. Most rule sets can't be fully observed in one evening. My comments were simply based on how long I could keep the ball in play and shot difficulty. The only shot I found tight/difficult was the WARP ramp on the left. When compared with other modern Sterns (IM, TRON, AC/DC, MET), ST felt far more forgiving. This isn't necessarily bad, just an observation.

It is forgiving and it does have longer ball times. It ain't no IM for sure

And that isn't a bad thing as not many of us want games we will never ever reach the end. I sold XMLE - one of the reasons was I could never hope to see the end of the game - stupidly hard.

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

MET LE even with its bare bone code is right now more fun to play then STLE.

I strongly disagree!

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from sto:

too easy??? wow, tell me , when you made it to "5 year Mission", the final mode!
I have never been there, while I reach "final frontier" on my STTNG (which is very fast too) every 2 maybe 3 games...
Own and love both games, but STLE is way more challenging codewise

Getting to Final Frontier is not necessary difficult in the scope of wizard modes, having all the artifacts first is a challenge. If you objective is simply to get to the wizard mode with zero regard for your score, then I guess I can see your point. Collecting all the artifacts first then reaching FF fully loaded, is much much more exciting IMO.

Personally I shoot for warp nine, then Borg Mutliball first, try to complete the missions, if I fail them (not collect the artifact) re-play them to at least collect as many as I can get away with, then go for FF. Because of this I rarely get to FF. But, when I do it's a real treat for sure.

#33 5 years ago

I'm afraid of owning acdc and st at the same time due to easy shots. I think acdc has some of the easiest ramps to hit in all of pinball, especially when it comes to back handing. I've only played a ST pro but I got that easy ramp shot feeling there too.

#34 5 years ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

Collecting all the artifacts first then reaching FF fully loaded, is much much more exciting IMO.

Yep, just like collecting all the "gifts" on LOTR...

#35 5 years ago
Quoted from turbo20lbs:

I'm afraid of owning acdc and st at the same time due to easy shots. I think acdc has some of the easiest ramps to hit in all of pinball, especially when it comes to back handing. I've only played a ST pro but I got that easy ramp shot feeling there too.

Add SM to that list too.

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Add SM to that list too.

Except that the ramps on SM are more narrow so they should not be classified as easy.

-6
#37 5 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Three thumbs down, willing to bet either STTNG or WOZ owners. Sorry but it's true best pinball to date.

STTNG doesn't deserve to smell STLE's shit!

#38 5 years ago
Quoted from Part_3:

STTNG doesn't deserve to smell STLE's shit!

classy posting!

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

classy posting!

Poop sounds lame....

#40 5 years ago

IMO this is an overall top 10 game no question, for me thou it is in my personal top 5

#41 5 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I strongly disagree!

Snake MB already better then any MB mode on ST. Coffin stacked with snake and then throw in S&D or Fuel and you have a kick ass time over anything on ST (not to mention the possibility of 2x and 4x scoring thrown In) Modes are ok but uninspired on ST and every multiball is almost the same except Vengeance.

That's what's great though is we can not like different games. I like ST but Met when completed will kicks it's ass.

#42 5 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

It's not a #1 pin........yet. It has everything to be #1 but the code still needs a lot of work for it to climb past the best. Not saying the code is bad, but it's not as good as acdc, LoTR, taf, SM, etc... But it's still early; it has room to go up...and room to go down.

I beg to differ. Code may make it somehwat better over time, but it doesn't have 'everything.' There isn't a whole lot to shoot at in this game; it's a very basic 3-ramp-3-flipper layout with color-changing inserts. Yes, it is basically a fast 'twitch' game with pretty much all shots being low-risk ones that feed back to the flippers, and shots are relatively easy to make with relatively wide openings on the not-so-busy pf. Many people like this simple, 'reflex' type of pin (and bright lights), so it is pretty popular with new buyers.

What you don't seem to see are the many people who dislike this game as being bare-bones. The modes are pretty fungible and boring because there simple is not much variety of shots (changing an insert color doesn't make it a different shot!), and the depth will never be there because you're shooting the same few shots over and over in any mode. The graphics are pretty poor, even for a DMD, comparable to mid-90's animations. Look at BoP2 for an example of what can be done graphically on a DMD. Great game for fast reflex shooting of some basic shots. But not an all-time #1 IMO. Other games have more depth and drawing power because of the variety of shots. The lack of variety in ST(LE) can't be cured with software, if the playfield interest and varied features aren't there.

Many people love ST(LE), many don't. Let's see how the dust settles on this thin game before proclaiming it the "best ever"!

#43 5 years ago

It's like any top 100 of all time list. These lists are always biased towards new releases (whether it's movies, music videos, or pinball games). You never really know until the hype wears off.

#44 5 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

I beg to differ. Code may make it somehwat better over time, but it doesn't have 'everything.' There isn't a whole lot to shoot at in this game; it's a very basic 3-ramp-3-flipper layout with color-changing inserts. Yes, it is basically a fast 'twitch' game with pretty much all shots being low-risk ones that feed back to the flippers, and shots are relatively easy to make with relatively wide openings on the not-so-busy pf. Many people like this simple, 'reflex' type of pin (and bright lights), so it is pretty popular with new buyers.
What you don't seem to see are the many people who dislike this game as being bare-bones. The modes are pretty fungible and boring because there simple is not much variety of shots (changing an insert color doesn't make it a different shot!), and the depth will never be there because you're shooting the same few shots over and over in any mode. The graphics are pretty poor, even for a DMD, comparable to mid-90's animations. Look at BoP2 for an example of what can be done graphically on a DMD. Great game for fast reflex shooting of some basic shots. But not an all-time #1 IMO. Other games have more depth and drawing power because of the variety of shots. The lack of variety in ST(LE) can't be cured with software, if the playfield interest and varied features aren't there.
Many people love ST(LE), many don't. Let's see how the dust settles on this thin game before proclaiming it the "best ever"!

i agree with this. this is just my opinion of course, but STTNG just has so much more going on and so much more variety of shots and modes (and having all those cool and amusing callouts from the cast helps too). ST has nice lights, but as a graphic designer, the ST playfield background and graphics (and DMD animations) look almost embarrassingly amateurish. i really don't see how the gameplay or the look/theme justifies it being a top all-time pinball machine, no matter how fast it is. TZ, MM, MB, AFM, and STTNG are all head and shoulders above ST. it's just not in their league in categories such as complexity, variety, depth, theme, or attractiveness (although the STLE cab really is super cool). taste is subjective, as we all know.

I think the Pro version is reasonably rated at #24, and LE should be right around there too in my opinion. It's pretty much the same game, only prettier.

-1
#45 5 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

i agree with this. this is just my opinion of course, but STTNG just has so much more going on and so much more variety of shots and modes (and having all those cool and amusing callouts from the cast helps too). ST has nice lights, but as a graphic designer, the ST playfield background and graphics (and DMD animations) look almost embarrassingly amateurish. i really don't see how the gameplay or the look/theme justifies it being a top all-time pinball machine, no matter how fast it is. TZ, MM, MB, AFM, and STTNG are all head and shoulders above ST. it's just not in their league in categories such as complexity, variety, depth, theme, or attractiveness (although the STLE cab really is super cool). taste is subjective, as we all know.
I think the Pro version is reasonably rated at #24, and LE should be right around there too in my opinion. It's pretty much the same game, only prettier.

I think STLE is way more fun than STTNG but I really hope they improve the dots on STLE as some are pretty poor. Sigma HD Res should make them better!

#46 5 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

i agree with this. this is just my opinion of course, but STTNG just has so much more going on and so much more variety of shots and modes (and having all those cool and amusing callouts from the cast helps too). ST has nice lights, but as a graphic designer, the ST playfield background and graphics (and DMD animations) look almost embarrassingly amateurish. i really don't see how the gameplay or the look/theme justifies it being a top all-time pinball machine, no matter how fast it is. TZ, MM, MB, AFM, and STTNG are all head and shoulders above ST. it's just not in their league in categories such as complexity, variety, depth, theme, or attractiveness (although the STLE cab really is super cool). taste is subjective, as we all know.
I think the Pro version is reasonably rated at #24, and LE should be right around there too in my opinion. It's pretty much the same game, only prettier.

I see you have no Stern games in your "head and shoulders above" list, so to me it looks like you just don't like Stern games and are Williams/Bally biased...

#47 5 years ago
Quoted from brucipher:

I see you have no Stern games in your "head and shoulders above" list, so to me it looks like you just don't like Stern games and are Williams/Bally biased...

i have nothing against Stern. haven't had all that much opportunity to play that much of them, though. LOTR is a decent game but not "greatest ever" material. Liked Iron Man. wasn't too impressed with TF or Avengers or Rolling Stones. But I've played AC/DC a bunch and really like it. not sure it makes my top 5 all time. top 10, probably.

#48 5 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I strongly disagree!

I secondly strongly disagree. To me ST has deeper more well thought out code thus far than MET. Plus I like the layout/flow a little better. Some games on MET I would do almost everything the pin had to offer in ball 1 then have to start chopping wood again. Don't get me wrong I love MET but do think the code needs a big update.

On ST I like that now you can stack 2 three in a rows to activate 2 supers at once for captains chair lets you attack the game as you like. Vengeance multiball is flat out awesome firing made shots right back at you pretty darn fun IMO. Kobayashi Maru multiball for going through all modes then paying out with how you did in those modes is very cool. The warp loop is simply awesome hopefully that will be more integrated in the code as time goes on. I guess it's good as mentioned above that they make different pins because we all have different tastes.

#49 5 years ago

I sold my STTNG that I had owned for the last 15 years to make way for STLE with absolutely no regrets. STLE is the best new game I can honestly remember being addicted to since AFM.

I have owned at one time or another at least 80-90% of all system 11's and at least 75% of all WPC's.

So after around 350 STLE games I am totally hooked! In comparison, The only 4 other Stern games I have even liked on par with W/B games are FG, LOTR, RBION & Tron. (Not enough games on ACDC for me yet to add it to add to that list).

There are very cool subtle planned nuances in the geometry of STLE that you only see after playing it a lot and the software as it sits now (which of course still needs some work), is spot on IMO, aside from memory issues when multiple awards are achieved at the same time and of course, mode & wizard progression. I have gotten to Kobayashi Maru MB only about a dozen times and I equate it to the very rewarding wizard mode going to the circus in CV. I also have a feeling there will be much, more on the next software release.

STLE IMO is a ground breaking game for Stern (as much as I am ashamed to admit), being a long-time B/W snob.

#50 5 years ago
Quoted from sto:

too easy??? wow, tell me , when you made it to "5 year Mission", the final mode!
I have never been there, while I reach "final frontier" on my STTNG (which is very fast too) every 2 maybe 3 games...
Own and love both games, but STLE is way more challenging codewise

And you have land extenders installed...or you're the greatest player to ever grace this planet! LOL, every 2 or 3 games.

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