(Topic ID: 215872)

Has Stern succeeded or still second fiddle to Williams and the WPC era

By shacklersrevenge

5 years ago


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  • 93 posts
  • 58 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by jawjaw
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Has Stern succeeded Williams/Bally WPC era of pins?”

    • Yes! 57 votes
      18%
    • No! 60 votes
      19%
    • Not even close to WPC 92 votes
      29%
    • Stern is now way above and beyond 26 votes
      8%
    • They both have great games, too close to say. 77 votes
      25%

    (312 votes)

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    #32 5 years ago

    No operator, senior technician, or long time collector has the belief that Stern has ever superseded BLY/WMS in terms of overall quality of games, including material or construction. All one has to do is ask people directly in the industry, not enthusiasts, and they will share their experience. Stern as a company has done what is needed for survival, sometimes thrive, but rarely innovate even in periods of mutual cooperation. The rare oversight by many in history that there were plans to close the company doors not in 2007, but 2009, approximately two years after SM. This is not to overlook, Stern has had a few "shining star" titles such as TSPP, LOTR, SM, and even RBION in the early 2000s. TSPP is the closest that Stern has come to matching the quality, features, and effort of WMS games comparative to the period directly mentioned.

    #38 5 years ago

    The contradiction to the above statement is people should then ask themselves is why do BLY/WMS games continue to be successfully operated 25+ years later (or much more), continually requested by operators (and certainly collectors), when many Stern WhiteStar games have been dismantled or parted out that are over 15 years younger minimum?

    Even System 11A/B/C games remain viable. Games such as Banzai Run are still considered design masterpieces, even if the original parts and components today are hard to come by in replacement, until aftermarket was available. The same can be said for other titles such as SafeCracker in the WPC 95 period, although it sold extremely poorly at the time introduced. I stand by personal my experience, and the many operators, technicians, distributors, and parts manufacturers that I speak to regularly. All operators have to take some measure of risk regarding new technology, but certain old technology remains the most viable for maintaining the "RSD" of pinball, although not the true money maker in the amusement industry today. EPROM code limitations are not a design fault, that was a improvement on the same aspects of technology I just described.

    I am not an operator, I have not done that in physical decades, and I never really enjoyed that aspect either.
    Nor am I a pure hobbyist, enthusiast, or collector, but do have a role as a historian.
    Presently, I am a technician for one of the largest vending, pinball, jukebox, megatouch, ATM, and amusement operators along the Pacific Northwest.

    No pinball machine was designed to last forever, but with regular maintenance and care BLY/WMS games can and will outlive most modern Stern games, not exclusive to electronics alone.

    #41 5 years ago

    The partial reason operators had "issues" was based on the dramatic continued increase in complexity design of games especially from 1988-1998. This was actually the request of operators and players together. Stern starting from 2004 went backwards for simplification as this aspect particularly to simply mechanical design, which was their company mantra starting all the way back in 2001. Hence, stating that Stern games ability to provide complex potential innovation was decreased, thereby reducing problems (and BoM costs) although there was significantly less operators were around to report issues anyway.

    I can state that I am no stranger to any type of game made since 1960, all the way up to 2018 from many manufacturers.
    If other operators believe that Stern games are better designed, with incredible "new" features, and better made than BLY/WMS (or even GTB), use what you want, but more likely what can be afforded. Anything beyond these points presented or explained at this point would be improperly perceived on these forums, and I have more restorations and repairs to finish.

    Just read my book after publication, if someone wants to understand more regarding pinball history and game design, their development, and a detailed analysis of the core fundamentals of the RSD of pinball and other types of amusements. The history is not a straight line.

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    #53 5 years ago

    I already answered general feasibility of pinball operation on routes, today. I am not going to deeply discuss operator financial strategies. This is simpler as I stated:

    "All operators have to take some measure of risk regarding new technology, but certain old technology remains the most viable for maintaining the "RSD" of pinball, although not the true money maker in the amusement industry today."

    Our best earners are jukeboxes, photobooths, and ATMs, not pinball. Pinball is used to bring in patrons at key locations or mega locations. There are four techs dedicated to over 100+ pinball titles (and performing restorations for upcoming special events) which is insane in comparison to other vending, service, and amusement types of games operated. I understand the business. I understand the games. Many locations here presently want pinball but it is not the best option, based on the high standard for general maintenance of all games, not just pinball regardless of manufacturer.

    Resale value of pinball titles to other games makes it worth the new purchases presently, even when $8-12K. We fortunately are in our region making back the costs in less than two years, as I presently told, but I am not the accountant. I have to agree or the owner would not be buying 1-2 limited edition of equivalent games at every release, or 2-5 of other titles. Other equipment is not cheaper anyway if people know trade show or cockpit simulators.

    What is largest problems with Stern games as reported (since 2015)? Lack of documentation, unrepairable problems, and/or waiting for parts. However, this goes for ALL manufacturers since 2013 starting with JJP, but those are the games people want to try right now.

    Two Houdinis are still being "bulletproofed" and tested for the same reason in the shop. New company and unproven record.

    Learning about the operator world is not the goal of this thread. People need to make their peace, somehow or go learn through local resources.

    Personally, I have no interest as an operator as I am finanicially independent, so this is no debate. My technical work is to provide entertainment to others, speed of repair and troubleshooting, history, and restoration for routes. Predominantly, benchside of late, so I don't have to do pulls.

    Go pinball.

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