No one knows what's going to happen.

You may be right. I think Planetary might announce a remake of an A-list title at next month's Expo. 2013 sure has been a crazy year so far for pinball!

Zzzzzz. A topic repeated a Billion times. No market in the world continues only upward forever. There are gains and there are pullbacks. It really is the same as Wall Street. Good luck predicting it.

It's always been relative. This discussion recycles again and again and again....

http://tinyurl.com/lpzuoyb

Pay for a pin what you think it's worth to YOU, with a little common sense thrown in. Enjoy the game, play it to death, then pass it along to the next guy.

No, I don't believe that Pinflation has glanced quickly.

When I read the title of this thread my curiosity was piqued so I had to take a peek at it.
Pique is a French word meaning “prick,” in the sense of “stimulate.” The expression has nothing to do with “peek” either.
I live in Twin Peaks but I digress.

grammar.jpg

Peeked 18 months ago for no basic reason, not things are going back down at a steady slope. Buying on the high and downslope is going to lose you money, if you even care what your games are worth. Which you shouldn't if your buying what you like and your planning on keeping.

Here's something I posted here eight months ago (and numerous times prior and since):

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/such-a-shame-seeing-neglected-games-on-route#post-1094055

Here's something else I've posted more than once here:

If you want pinball to keep growing, play on location regularly and encourage others to do the same. Home buyers alone won't do it.

About every month.

Amen Brother....

ya, it peeked at me the other day. scared the $hit out of me.

p.gif

Well it certainly has not peeked for the major pinball manufacturer 's . The prices have been steadily going up.

Zzzzzz

I for one hope every game drops 50%. Then I will buy twice as many.

If I played a couple bucks worth of pinball on location every single day, no rest or breaks, it would take me more than 32 years to drop enough quarters to be even close to what I've put into pinball at home.

I support my local on location play, what little there is of it, and I'm an advocate for it. But it's not gonna save anything. At best it will be advertising for new collectors to get into the home side of the hobby I'm afraid.

So, a huge problem is people remove prices from FS threads of never say what it sold for. That scared stiff for 6k on here that says SOLD, may have only sold for 5300, we simply don't know. Most of the FS threads on here are becoming as useful as boston pin prices

The amount of pinflation threads going at one time has indeed peaked....or has it?

bandcamp.jpg

I think it peaked, fell back a BIT and for awhile we'll see a churning in current prices for quite some time.
I don't see Stern being able to increase prices much from where we are right now. Even if they make the switch to LCDs, I don't see them going North of $8600 MSRP for several years.

Been a LOT going on in the last year and the market needs to take a breather and absorb it all. Lot of variables effecting prices with remakes coming out and some of the small production games like spooky and skitB.

Myself, I have $12K+ out of pocket right now for games yet to be delivered [hobbit and predator] and lots of others have WAY more than that in Magic girl, etc....

Times change and the whole preorder thing is dying a quick death I believe. Truth is no one REALLY knows exactly how it will pan out, but it's all good for pinball!

substitute "hope" for "wish".

8gjrt.jpg

For more than 70 years, pinball was strictly a social activity in this country. In 1932, Bally sold more than 70,000 games of a single title (Ballyhoo). In 1992, all the pinball manufacturers combined sold more than 100,000 games. Do you really think home buyers will ever get near those numbers? Or are you happy with the way things are now? Pinball being mostly enjoyed by upper middle class folks in the privacy of their own home.

Your posting history doesn't reflect this.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ot-pondering-opening-an-arcade-in-nnj/page/2#post-1578072

You do however regularly attend events at private locations.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mustang-launch-party-april-26th-pinball-land#post-1609879

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/socal-play-wizard-blocks-kingpin-krull-loch-ness-king-kong-and-more-on-322/page/2#post-1538533

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/play-your-heart-out-socal-oc-tournament-and-party-for-python-march-22#post-1509839

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/star-trek-le-launch-party#post-1376899

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-land-november-2#post-1224667

I didn't say anything about 'saving pinball'. Read what you quoted. If you want pinball to keep growing, play on location regularly and encourage others to do the same. Owning a game is not a requirement of the hobby.

Jesus Christ. That's a little creepy.

Just sayin'...

I would say it did about 9 months ago just before the PPS MMRLE announcement a lot of MM 97 sold for between $8-9,500 right after that? NOw if the new MM is as good as everyone is saying, you might see original going for less maybe 6,000 or so ?

Wow. Stalk much?

Luckily for me you don't know me, at all. Which is good, because you're kinda creepy and I don't think I want to hang out with you.

Hey local bowling alley, which is the only decent on location pinball within miles and miles of me, with two machines, one of which I already own after falling in love with it playing there, I'll be sure and post a note on Pinside next time I'm gonna go drop some quarters in so phishrace can note it down in his stalking book. 'Kay? Thanks!

This is 2014. The concept of an arcade/coin-op gaming is not a mainstream social activity anymore, and this is nothing new. Arcades offered something you couldn't get at home....now most people consider what they get at home to be a superior gaming experience - thus rendering arcades obsolete. Yes, pinball is a game most people can't enjoy at home...but still - the overall coin-op arcade landscape is basically redemption games now...games are a quaint offshoot of bowling alleys or movie theaters. There are a few pinball hotspots, and that's great....but stop acting like home collectors are the enemy of pinball. School-marming us to play on location isn't going to save anything. The arcade is dead. Collectors HAVE been helping to Stern afloat and are the reason JJP exists. For those operating games successfully...cool....but, it's never going to be a huge mainstream thing again. Pinball manufacturers need ANYONE interested to buy a machine...collectors and ops. Stop belittling collectors. We're doing our part.

Playing at home and proud of it!

One thing arcades offered that you can't get at home is a central place for people to socialize while doing something fun.

I think pinball is more accessible to new players than other games because the controls are so simple and anyone can participate. Also, a new player can find success against more experienced players.

The question to me is, does pinball have that special something to gather a following once people are introduced to it? If so, I could see the current resurgence expand into more dedicated public locations.

SoCal is pretty much a desert when it comes to on location play. There's very little here compared to say, The Bay where you are. 82 is the first significant new addition to the scene in a while (shout out to Molly), and that's great if you're near downtown LA, and are over 21, I really do need to get out there. But it's not like I can stop by on my lunch break, it's an 18 mile drive through a lot of traffic. Kind of an "event" thing you have to plan out.

There's a bowling alley 4 miles from me with a Tron LE and AC/DC Pro, I play there. It's where I fell in love with Tron, and why I eventually bought one so I could play it more often, my work and family life isn't set up to drive out to a bowling alley all the time. I put my quarters in, and I'd drop more if I was in the area. Especially if they switched up the same games they've had for years now.

What we do have are a ton of private collections. And some spaces that are semi-private, like Pinball Land (which has a mix of free play and coin drop), and some others which I won't name. We have people like pinsane and rvdv who are really generous about opening up their houses to big parties. Leagues like the OC that meet regularly at people's houses. I have a group of friends that I regularly play with, either here with my collection, or for those who have enough games to support a group at their places.

The SoCal scene is actually really great about socializing on a regular basis. I see the same people all the time that I don't really know, but give a friendly nod to, the people who I'm on a first name basis with now, and then there are the friends I've made through the scene that go beyond just a pinball connection (some really good people too). So it's not that we're dying here, playing by ourselves in sad little gamerooms.

The arcade as a business model isn't coming back. Most new successful places are barcades, and the games are just the gimmick to keep you buying drinks. HQ in Chicago has a ton of pins, all on free play. It's not about quarter dropping. Emporium games are 25 cents. Not sure what 82 is charging yet. That's just how it is. Hey, happy to be proven wrong. Set up pinball near me and I'll come. I don't see it happening. phishrace, if it's really that simple, then come down here and set up shop, you'll have no competition. I'll play your games, just don't like video tape me secretly or something while I do it okay?

I'm crazy jealous of places like Portland, with a ton of on location play. SoCal just isn't set up for it. We don't walk here, things are too spaced out. Just how it is.

Most gamers these days consider online play via computer/xbox/playstation to be the definition of a social gaming experience. Even social games like fighters only have a hardcore niche audience...most "social" gamers are playing MMORPGs or first person shooters. On top of that, pinball is essentially a solitary man-vs-machine experience, unlike most arcade games which offer 2-4 player simultaneous play. Sure, there are tournaments...but again - it's a niche thing.

You'd think - but sometimes "simple" confuses people if they're not used to it. When my collection was mostly vids, the neighbor kids would come by (about 8 years old)...they could play PlayStation games instinctively with all the sticks & buttons on the controller - but Dig Dug completely confused the shit out of them!

Pinball DOES have something special! We know this...but - it's still not gonna be for everybody or become some huge mainstream thing...and again that's not pinball's fault, but just the nature of the arcade being an outdated concept. Pinball can survive in the barcade format...cuz the money all comes from the food/drinks. In any case, it's pretty cool that we have multiple manufacturers right now for this niche product...that really shows the passion behind those who love it and create it. For this game that was already obsolete in the early 80's to still be alive....it's pretty cool.

I wish there were more public locations near me. I think our league wishes there were more public locations too with well maintained games. If that were the case, I wouldn't need to buy machines. It would be a lot cheaper to get my fill of most games by pumping in quarters.

Our league currently plays in two public locations, one is a pizza place with well maintained games. The other is a local shop with not as well maintained games on free play (sad to say some of them are mine ). Otherwise we meet at private homes as people offer.

The barcade format works for me. It would be great if there were more of them in our area.

I'm lucky that this place is about 10 minutes away-

http://blainbrookbowl.com/arcade.html

Also have a Brunswick Zone with 10 machines about 10 minutes away.

Food, beer, pinball. Life is good, what else does a human need???

(oh, and of course the the legendary LTG tm is about 25-30 minutes away)

Well if you ever want to find me, I play on location a lot, so I'm easy to find.

The only reason I encourage folks to play on location is because it's generally more fun than playing at home. This is based on my 40+ years of experience playing on location. And I'm not trying to revive arcades. Never said that.

If you looked at a pinball map now and then, you'd see that numbers are growing most everywhere in the country. That's a fact.

Something Molly posted a while back come to mind...

You said yourself that 'pinball land' is 35 miles from you. How many times have you made that trip?

If you played on location more often, you might meet some new folks. d

Again, I didn't say anything about arcades. Those locations you speak of are better overall for the hobby. I'm not suggesting the complete elimination of all home games, just encouraging folks to play on location more often. You call socal a pinball desert, which is somewhat true, but it was way worse 10 years ago. LA is making big strides, as are big cities like NY. I really do appreciate that you play 'in the wild' occasionally, but it would be better for the hobby (and your mental well being) if you did it more often. Give us a review of 82. Your local private scene isn't bad for the hobby, but public locations are better overall for the hobby.

I've already done that, here in the bay area. Which also happens to be very spread out. Living quarters are tight in the city, but the rest of us are spread out just like you folks.

Was it a solitary experience for the first 70 years of the hobby, when pinball was only played on location?

Appreciate that JV. Also appreciate your games at BB, rough as they may be sometimes. I'd rather play those games than some of the pimped out games we've seen lately in folks homes for league. Honestly, those pimped out games are one of the reasons I don't attend league as much any more. Give me route beaters any time. d

WTF!

all pinball is good if you ask me...barcade,arcade,basement,gameroom wherever...it is a social experience at home as well as on location for most of us...it might be me with my wife and kids or it might be me with some buddies who come by now and then(and I go to their place to play their line up)...not all of us who play at home are by ourselves in moms basement... I play at home A LOT but I am fortunate to have several great locations near me to play in the wild at least once or twice a week as well.

any pinball is great pinball

ps-- that's some serious stalking going on...just sayin'

I don't play on location . I choose who I play with and my games are clean. Plus the liquor is free!

I like to jam a lot into each post. Trying to keep karma points down. Feel free to give this post a thumbs down. I think that reduces karma points.

Everything I've quoted has been posted here. If you're going to post a lot, you leave yourself open to scrutiny. If they played on location more often and didn't post as much, they wouldn't leave me as much material. d:^)

This has gotten way off topic. Apologies to the original poster.

There is no location play here. Check the pinball map for Torrance. There's the bowling alley I mentioned, and a handful of single broken machines in a couple bars that aren't maintained. I keep the app on my phone, I seek out places when I travel. My backyard isn't a pinball mecca.

I'll be happy to give a review of 82. A group of us want to find a night to all go out together, we'll organize it.

And yet I meet new people all the time. Constantly. Some of them are here on Pinside, some of them aren't. Why? Because we have a vibrant social scene down here that manages to survive without ops. And it's all because of private collectors. I'm lucky enough to have met and become friends with cool people like Rarehero because of that, and cosmokramer and I met recently. We're not that close geographically, but he knows he has an open invite to my place. SoCal is spread out, but we manage.

I know the Bay Area very well, I'm from San Francisco. It's nothing like the LA area, so don't try and compare them, and pretend because you set up shop there that you could do it down here. Go for it. Bring pinball back on location in SoCal, I'll be delighted. Otherwise climb off your pillar.

And more power to Molly. I made a disparaging remark about her the other day that stemmed from a petty personal conflict we had, but I apologized in public, and in private to her. We're cool now, I hope I see her when we go to 82. I also hope her endeavors pay off, and I'll support them as I can.

None of the bowling alleys up here have pins anymore, the pizza place has one a blown out LW3 with no GI, broken flippers with no rubbers and someone finally stuffed pepperonis in the coin slots.
It has been like that for over a year.
I offered to pull it and shop it, the owner doesn't want to do anything to it and says it doesn't make any money.
I wonder why?
He offered to sell it to me for 25 hundred and I told him for a pizza and a pitcher of beer I would haul it off for him.
That is the extent of location game up here.

I play alone
Yeah, with nobody else
You know when I play alone
I prefer to be by myself

Quote away, I'm not embarrassed about anything I say here. It's just, I post a lot. And so to find all those quotes you had to sift through a lot of posts. And frankly that's creepy behavior, all to prove what? That I'm polite in public to people who host parties? Thanks to Ron and Robert and Steve again for being cool and generous collectors, scrutinize that all you want!

And yet, even with that little sad song, I've met you and played your games. How do we ever manage such feats!

Yeah i hate playing pins that the owners are proud of, keep clean and working properly, and enhance to their taste. Screw that!

It's done with mirrors.

If it ain't pimped it's gimped.

Some of them are so far out they are really bad I will agree with you there.