(Topic ID: 181178)

Has high prices influenced your pin purchases?


By rai

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 54 posts
  • 41 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by BMore-Pinball
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    #1 3 years ago

    I'm curious how much high prices or perceived value have changed your buying decisions?

    I had been a good nib buyer, from 2012 to 2014 I bought 4 nib pins in 18 month time period.

    I have been in position to buy something the last 2 years but with JJP at $9k, BM66 at $7700 and heck even Jetsons at $6000 plus shipping I tapped out.

    I clearly remember the tipping point was MMR at $8000 plus shipping plus color dmd cost. It was getting on near two pins so I decided to pay a bit extra and actually buy two pins. I did spend on STLE but that was my last high priced nib pin.

    I had the ability to buy something but at those prices, instead spent ~$5000 or less each on pre owned TSPP, TWD pro Met pro LOTR and SM.

    With ongoing questions regarding QC and code from Stern and with the lack of value (IMO) I could not visualize spending $6400 for a basic pin like Jetsons, BM66 do not see $7700 and $9000 DI

    My point is, yes the manufacturer is making more money at these higher prices but at the cost of steady sales from myself at least. Wonder if others have walked away from nib as well?

    -6
    #2 3 years ago

    so wait is this just another Stern bashing thread, or general price complaining thread?

    Prices obviously affect everybody's decision on whether or not to buy anything. So really not much to say here.

    #3 3 years ago

    Not just Stern, this is cross the industry TBL at $10k?

    I was excited about DI until I saw price and Jetsons also.

    Stern BM66 sticker shock is still in effect.

    -6
    #4 3 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    I was excited about DI until I saw price and Jetsons also.
    Stern BM66 sticker shock is still in effect.

    So what you are saying is, before you buy a pinball machine, you consider the price?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

    Wow. There may be others like you but I can't think of anybody.

    #5 3 years ago

    I'd buy Aerosmith Pro right now if it had at least FGY depth & a non shitty PF

    I refuse to buy Premium/LE due to price no matter what the code/PF status.

    The PF issues still exist BTW here & there. A local guy took delivery of a MET a few weeks ago with issues.

    2016/2017 PF's are a liability I dont need in my life

    Incomplete code is a disappointment I dont need in my life

    $7000 games are expenses I dont need in my life

    I feel at peace with my TSPP code, price & PF so I want the same from new games

    #6 3 years ago

    I was going to buy SM VE but price $6600 instead I got an old edition that was 'as new' condition for $5000.

    I'll grant the dots are nicer on SM VE but ???? PF issue I can't see taking a chance on that.

    #7 3 years ago

    Since im limited to 3 pins because of space for me its more about no themes i like coming out. Aerosmith looks fun but its Aerosmith, DI looks good but the theme is terrible, Alien i have my doubts about Heighway as a company, Jetsons is not for players like me, BM66 plays like crap but i like the theme. Damn it just make a pin with a winning theme and great layout and ill buy it, money isnt the issue theme is for me.

    #8 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    So what you are saying is, before you buy a pinball machine, you consider the price?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
    Wow. There may be others like you but I can't think of anybody.

    I think you are really over looking what the OP is asking. Obviously most consider price before purchasing. The OP is asking if current increases have priced certain pinsiders out of NIB purchases or if these increases are absorbed without hesitation. Your simplification of his post seems like you're just stirring the pot IMO.

    #9 3 years ago

    Wait.

    HIGH gas prices?

    Did you mean to post this two years ago, when price/gal was over the $4 mark?

    You know, instead of now, when it's about half that?

    #10 3 years ago

    At the moment, I honestly don't have space for another pin. I could squeeze one in somewhere, but I would be sacrificing that given area's other use(s). In addition to the space constraints, price is a huge factor for me. If NIB were generally less than, say, $5000 for a full-featured machine (that wasn't a music theme!), it would make me seriously consider repurposing some existing area. As it stands now, spending $7K+ for a "premium" machine isn't in the cards. Forget anything above $9K.

    One caveat - JJP#4 / Stern Star Wars might seriously loosen the purse strings!

    #11 3 years ago

    For a new pin you have to sacrifice space and money. In return I expect a game that is fun to play, pleasing to look at, of decent quality without too many issues and a reasonable resale value.
    The new pins that recently hit the market pushing the outer limits in terms of price, quality and resale value. There are only a few games which I would consider A-list (Metallica, Dialed-In, MMr). I think most of the recent titles won't hold their value well over time, have too many quality issues and are not that great games to begin with. For $8+K I expect better. For the same price I can get two or three very nice titles from the 90s in excellent condition.

    #12 3 years ago

    I can *almost* see where Jetsons or TBL price is coming from. As maybe the don't want to sell any more than x number so they price it at the moon for a few hundred sales.

    But BM66 at a minimum costs $3000 north of a Met pro did 2-3 years ago with arguably worse art and maybe won't be as good as Met pro.

    I understand Stern is puffing up the pro price but overall Stern has the ability to make a lot of pins but they're slamming the door on people who faithfully had bought $4700 pins in the past.

    #13 3 years ago

    There is a certain(t) amount of monies that are a cut off point for my income. I see people on here with 100k+ cars and things like that...an 8K pin isn't that big of a deal to them.

    I am not in that bracket

    11
    #14 3 years ago

    Not really. Like many, I purchase my machines from a catalog and i dont remember any prices listed. I just circle what I want with a red pen and hand the catalog to my butler. If I had a complaint it would be that I have to use a red pen at all. Why can't the butler just know what I want rather than me having to get the pen and monacle? I know I'm being unrealistic since Reginald will never be able to read my thoughts no matter how many classes I make him take...carry on.

    #15 3 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    I can *almost* see where Jetsons or TBL price is coming from. As maybe the don't want to sell any more than x number so they price it at the moon for a few hundred sales.
    But BM66 at a minimum costs $3000 north of a Met pro did 2-3 years ago with arguably worse art and maybe won't be as good as Met pro.
    I understand Stern is puffing up the pro price but overall Stern has the ability to make a lot of pins but they're slamming the door on people who faithfully had bought $4700 pins in the past.

    For the record Bm66 does not have a Pro option. The Aerosmith Pro is much closer to the Metallica Pro price. But prices are going up much quicker these days.

    #16 3 years ago
    Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:

    For the record Bm66 does not have a Pro option. The Aerosmith Pro is much closer to the Metallica Pro price. But prices are going up much quicker these days.

    For the record, a BM66 premium has less "stuff" on it than a MET pro does.

    Regarding pricing...games will sell or won't. Prices will settle wherever the market takes it. No point crying about it. Buy used like you have and move on.

    #17 3 years ago

    On a serious note, yes and no. It doesn't stop me from buying games, but it does mean I have to like the gameplay AND theme AND sounds AND lights a whole lot more. For $3500-4000 I could go in on something I "like" but do not "love" just because it seems sort of fun. For $8,000 I have to basically love everything. For $12,000+ it has to be a grail-tier game for me. And also, at these prices I am buying games I plan to own for life.

    For $3500-4000 I would be looking at every title instead of laser targeting ones I love, and I would be getting games more often.

    #18 3 years ago

    My cut off is )$5,000. NIB are moving north so I'm out. I can always get a used game for less.

    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    I was going to buy SM VE but price $6600 instead I got an old edition that was 'as new' condition for $5000.
    I'll grant the dots are nicer on SM VE but ???? PF issue I can't see taking a chance on that.

    FWIW my SMVE had a build date of Nov 28, 2016 and there is no playfield ghosting.

    #20 3 years ago
    Quoted from Rondogg:

    Not really. Like many, I purchase my machines from a catalog and i dont remember any prices listed. I just circle what I want with a red pen and hand the catalog to my butler. If I had a complaint it would be that I have to use a red pen at all. Why can't the butler just know what I want rather than me having to get the pen and monacle? I know I'm being unrealistic since Reginald will never be able to read my thoughts no matter how many classes I make him take...carry on.

    About dropped my monocle when I read that. Egads sir!

    RE: Price... not sure if I'm priced out right now or not. I could buy more pins (as I've recently decided that the garage could serve as a staging area for pins that need to be upgraded/fixed) and could swap newer stuff in and out.

    But I have this weird desire to downsize so I can move to San Francisco in 18 months... so I'd say price hasn't really been the reason for slowing down buying stuff.

    #21 3 years ago

    It comes down to Stern seeing that a few people were willing to pay flipper prices on an LE that sold out quickly. They decided to take that profit for themselves, and now EVERYBODY pays flipper prices to get the games directly.

    And yes, it has influenced my game buying. Stern has decided that your buying 4 games Rai, is worth less to them than the profit of a single LE sale. They are capitalizing their market to generate the most profit. And only they know the formula to figure out if it will work out better in the long run. Personally I think it is stupid to piss off your good customers, but they think it is more profitable to do it that way.

    (And yes, I think Stern loves pinball, and has been a great asset to the community. They just went a bit too far in the other direction. They will still have customers, just not as many because people like me require value from their money, and I can find better value elsewhere.)

    #22 3 years ago

    Of course, i only do straight trades nowadays, i cant afford ever increasing prices on the newers games, so i stay in the 80's.

    Not that i mind, lots of good games in that era too.

    #23 3 years ago

    It absolutely does affect my purchases - I have only room for 3 (sometimes 4) pins, so I have to REALLY really love the theme to even look around. Alien, LOTR and Doctor Who are on my list, but the only one I have a chance of picking up any time soon is DW... except I can't find one.

    I would think that the high prices would almost require a licensed theme for this reason - or a deeper discount on an original idea like Dialed In in order to entice buyers. But I guess JJP at least is confident in the sales for DI. Stern seems to be going exclusively down the licensed theme route (have they always done that? I guess so...)

    #24 3 years ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    My cut off is )$5,000. NIB are moving north so I'm out. I can always get a used game for less.

    This. QC issues caused me to pause on GB. Price has caused me to consider anything going forward. I will watch the upcoming games as they develop in the ruleset aspect. Was interested in Star Wars. Iron Maiden was a must buy until the going rate exceeded 5K. If any of these ever get to a point I want to own, I will buy it in the secondary market.

    #25 3 years ago

    I'd say we are seeing a market "correction". For the last 2-3 years if you were smart with your purchases you could almost guarantee at least getting your money back when selling a pin. That's not always the case lately.

    #26 3 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    I clearly remember the tipping point was MMR at $8000 plus shipping plus color dmd cost. It was getting on near two pins so I decided to pay a bit extra and actually buy two pins. I did spend on STLE but that was my last high priced nib pin.

    MMR and Lebowski were my last high priced NIB purchases, and STLE was my last Stern. I was really on the fence with STLE, too...for me, that's officially when Stern's LE prices got too ridiculous...but, I helped a friend open his and got googley eyed by the superficial bling like the lit up rails and multiball lazers...so, I bit. I think I sold it in less than a year because I was fed up with the code situation...the fact that they couldn't be bothered to code the asteroid flashers really put a bad taste in my mouth. As minor as they are, they were extra features I paid for...if they weren't going to use them, why include them? Just obnoxious. I was going to buy GB Prem, but the combination of prices, delays, QC issues, Stern's B'66 arrogance, and the game not being fun anyway (should have been my first reason to bail lol) has permanently put me off of buying NIB Sterns. Completely done, don't care what the theme is.

    As for MMR, yes, $8000 was a lot...but for me there were comparisons to justify it. For MMR...my friend sold his restored MM for over $20k....a brand new MM with some newer/cooler tech seemed "reasonable". Luckily once they started shipping, I got mine pretty quickly and am happy with it. That being said - based on how CGC & PPS handled a lot of things such as up-charging for color...I wouldn't buy another game from them NIB.

    As for Lebowski, yes, $8500 was a lot...but it was an ultimate dream theme and I had confidence in the Dutch boys due to how great BOP 2.0 was and the fact that they had the working protos to play at shows. While they started off great - the endless delays and lack of communication have soured me on jumping in on game #2 NIB, if they choose to make one.

    JJP games are a ton of dough...and I haven't bought one NIB. Very happy with my HUO Hobbit, though! I would have never waited the 4 years it took for the original owner to receive it, however!

    So, I went off on a bit of a tangent...but yes - prices are nuts....because we're not getting any value for what we're paying for. We're often getting a lot of drama and frustration with our purchase instead of just a fun game. All of these companies have massive issues that are now making me clutch my wallet. I have no faith in any of them at the moment...I need to see proof that these games are well built and good...and I'm not going to pay that much for "wait 'n gamble". I'm OUT!

    #27 3 years ago

    I stopped buying NIB at 5k. You can pick up a HUO all day long cheaper. I don't buy LEs either. Crazy prices.

    #28 3 years ago

    Not at all. Fortunately I bought all the good titles I wanted years ago when things were much cheaper then they are today. But even back then the prices were the going price..., just lower then what things have increased to today.

    John

    #29 3 years ago
    Quoted from fishmanrob:

    You can pick up a HUO all day long.

    East of the Mississippi river, maybe. Out west it's a pinball desert--literally. Very little supply. People are asking $9500 for a routed TZ.

    #30 3 years ago

    NIB didn't even occur to me when I saw the thread title - because that ship sailed years ago. Now I can't even wrap my head around the used prices.

    It's a good thing I have a bunch of working games plus some project that'll last me a few years, because as of right now that's it for me!

    #31 3 years ago

    LOL!

    #32 3 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    NIB didn't even occur to me when I saw the thread title - because that ship sailed years ago. Now I can't even wrap my head around the used prices.

    Yeah, both are a bit wacky, but if I was new to the hobby - I'd go used all day long. Even though the prices are higher than what us "old timers" are used to - the older games are better in almost every way and cost less. Projects seem to be a thing of the past though unless you're really lucky and/or patient. My last project was a $4000 Monster Bash I got from an operator 5 years ago. That was the last game I fully tore apart and put back together.

    #33 3 years ago

    The high prices of new machines has affected the prices of pins I enjoy the most. Bally Williams B titles. I would like to add another machine to the collection like Flintstones or World Cup Soccer. Even the prices of these machines have been increasing.

    #34 3 years ago

    Prices of NiB have risen above the psychological threshold in my head. It's still a toy after all. So I'm in the secondhand camp.

    TWD Pro was my last NiB. And it's because of Lyman, and a special favour he realized, that I jumped that train.

    Last buy (2 weeks ago) was an Elektra @ 650 USD. Needs some work offcourse, but it will be so gratifying when she's up and running again

    #35 3 years ago

    All of these NIB price increases are pushing more people into the used market and that's causing used prices to skyrocket too.

    #37 3 years ago

    I believe we are in the BLING! BLING! high prices stage of used games as well as ridiculous NIB prices.
    I can't even afford a second hand so have to wait for third hand games. The bubble is just getting bigger.
    For second hand games it a race to meet NIB prices.
    1:With all the repo parts available now people are spending thousands to bring their games to new condition. Prices go up.
    2: We are in a LED, and MOD frenzy. Every game is being converted and people are slapping on mods like it's a trip to TOYS R' US. Of course not only are people expecting to get their money back for these. They also want to "PAY" them selves for doing the work.
    3: lets not forget Color DMD is now available for many more games then ever before.
    This is what I call the BLING BLING stage.

    #38 3 years ago

    Like many of us, I deal in used games because I can't afford new ones. I buy broken EMs, fix them up for a *modest* profit, and then turn that profit into newer games that I want, like I did with STTNG. Pinball machines don't HAVE to be luxury items if you're a patient buyer, but they really are luxury items.

    #39 3 years ago

    For me it was the price hike coupled with QC issues that led me to buy a restored Bally instead. I wanted a GB bad too, but just did not want to hassle with issues, also the obscene amount of airballs didn't help. I tell you something the pf issues aside, I think there is something freaking wrong with that game. The way that ball was bouncing all over the cabinet had me confounded.

    #40 3 years ago

    I bowed out of my MMR preorder. Decided $8k was above my limit. Spent the money on a worse investment, a motorcycle, and do not regret it at all.

    To date, my ACDC premium for 6k was the most expensive game purchased. Right around there is my limit NIB or used.

    #41 3 years ago

    I would say cost makes me more cautious or perhaps think about options more, but theme /layout/code of new games has a huge impact as well.

    NIB games I've bought.

    ACDC Prem - ACDC fan, liked the layout and toys and code
    STLE - the warp ramp shot sold me, the code improved
    MET - didn't love the theme, but great toys and art, and I waited for complete code
    TWDLE - loved the theme and I thought the layout was cool
    GBLE - loved the them, art, toys, layout

    Passed on

    GOT: didn't like the layout or upper play field
    WWE - I didn't like anything about it
    Kiss - didn't like the code, theme, or toys
    Batman - didn't like the code, theme, toys
    Aerosmith - like the theme, art, layout, Lonnie on code scares me...will wait and see

    #42 3 years ago

    I don't want any new Sterns so NIB prices for those doesn't matter to me. But the price increase on B/W does matter to me. I have room for 10 machines. Once the space limit was hit, I planned on maybe expanding the walkout basement out under the deck to add a few more.

    These prices have saved me from having to do that.

    Regarding Stern, I wouldn't mind picking up an Orbitor-1.
    I kinda like it, and the wife loves it.

    They have one at the VFW show. She looks forward to playing it every year.

    I can't find one anywhere else.

    #43 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pahuffman:

    I buy broken EMs, fix them up for a *modest* profit, and then turn that profit into newer games that I want, like I did with STTNG.

    That's all fine and good if you can even find the raw materials. Getting beaters is really hard now, making me question if I even want to sell off my finished restores.

    #44 3 years ago

    I route games and have bought a couple NIB for that purpose. With prices having gone from 4800 to 5200 or more for a pro it makes me less apt to try a new in box. I guess I will gobble up the secondary market of games already around.

    #45 3 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    Getting beaters is really hard now

    I can definitely see that being a problem. Still getting occasionally lucky down here in Alabama though.

    #46 3 years ago
    Quoted from mamawaldee:

    Regarding Stern, I wouldn't mind picking up an Orbitor-1.
    I kinda like it, and the wife loves it.
    They have one at the VFQ show. She looks forward to playing it every year.
    I can't find one anywhere else.

    Come on over.

    John

    #47 3 years ago

    Buy one game ( yea right ) price not a big factor as long as you can get service . Point of view for new blood entering the hobby . If you take care of the title then sell ,you can ( not always ) regain some / most of your capital . I have yet to meet the pinsider totally satisfied at the single title collection point . So the price complaints start as your quest to run out of space drives your actual needs . For me the quality drop off major components ( playfield , cabinet decals ) has me happy enjoying the games I have had for years . No need for new blood . Enjoy the day . Shane

    #48 3 years ago

    I am fairly new to collecting pins so these prices seem about right to me. I am probably part of a large surge of people starting to get pins for their basements just like they'd get a pool table or build a cool bar or a theater. I'm not making that up; this is becoming a "cool" and mainstream thing to do among people with some extra cash. It is overall a sign of a healthy industry. I do not believe it is a bubble. I don't think prices will continue to rise at the rate that it sounds like they did over the past couple years but I do think it will be a steady increase over time. I understand it being tough for the guys that have been doing this for years and are used to getting cheap pins. There will still be some of those and you can probably make a good amount on selling your pins that you bought for much cheaper. And it means more new games, more parts, more mods, etc.

    As far as affecting my NIB purchases, I probably am not the right person to respond as I am so new to this hobby but my last purchase was a NIB WOZRRLE that just topped $10k with playfield protector and shipping. That's completely worth it to me because it is the best version of my favorite game. I am "in" for a $10K TBL but only for the deposit at this point and I'm not sure if I will stay or not. This isn't because of the cost but the concern that I will actually get my game and then have good customer support from a company so notorious for poor response. JJP on the other hand has SUPERB customer service/support. That is why I've purchased three of their games, two NIB (the other is Hobbit Smaug SE for $7900). My only other NIB was GB Pro for $5500, which seems like a pretty good deal overall.

    Also, I know it is snooty but showing someone your pin and telling them it cost 10 grand is just a form of bragging similar to telling someone how much a piece of art you own is worth.

    #49 3 years ago

    Thinking about it. Thanks.

    #50 3 years ago

    Yes. Buy low, sell high....selling at this time. No buy.

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