just curious what those details are b/c the effort is insane and you only have 1 to replace.

The 1.0 system is a flawed design. They will all fail on every machine prematurely, it's just a matter of when. And generally speaking, once one or two boards start failing, they all start going one after another.

I hope so. Tough part is going to be finding a day to do the install... not looking forward to 10-12 hours of pain and agony. And really hoping I don’t f*** it up!

I've heard the instructions are much better now, so you may only be looking at 8 hours. It's not hard or torturous or painful, just time-consuming. That's it. I broke it up over a few sessions of a few hours each, and even with the original not-great instructions it wasn't that bad. Your experience at this point is guaranteed to be better than mine and the others who did the initial kits.

What were the details? I already have a set of 2.0’s in the closet waiting for the day, but I’m curious...

He just outlined some of the flaws with the old system. Connectors, sequencing of boards, letc. Also that chips used with 7.5 are no longer made, so eventually they’ll be used up.

Ultimately, I’m banking on the fact that an $800 investment will save me from the pain of tossing money at a progressive problem, rather than just putting that money toward the modernized system.

You know, I think I probably could have replaced my faulty board and gotten another 5 years of flawless performance. I’m hoping 2.0, however, will prove to be more future proof. WOZ is one of the only game in my collection that’s truly bolted to the floor. So, that went into the decision.

I spoke to Butch as well, and this was the biggest thing that convinced me to do the upgrade. At some point, the only solution will be to upgrade since the chips are no longer being made. I too want to keep my WOZ for the long haul so it was either I upgrade now or later, but eventually it would have to be done.

Everything is prone to obsolescence. Right? For all we know, chips used in 2.0 are next.

Personally, I find the whole thing frustrating as hell. I miss the days of bulbs.

Yes, but the earlier system is prone to repeated failures while 2.0 is much more reliable. That doesn’t mean that I’ll be able to get replacement boards in 30 years if something happens. But I was having multiple failures each winter with the old system, and that was not sustainable especially with a supply of chips that would be dwindling.

Bulbs don’t have these problems, but they also can’t all turn green when you finally melt the witch, or turn rainbow in attract mode, etc. The light show on WOZ is amazing but it comes with a price.

Fair points!

I often wonder about the longevity of these new machines with modern components. Old SS pins are easy to repair and maintain for those who know how. When you have modern electronics and proprietary code with dongle keys that unlock the software, will the Pinball community be able to keep them running years and years from now?

When I first started doing this - when dinosaurs roamed the Earth - the gentleman from whom I bought my first pin (Bally Sky Kings EM) said that EMs would outlast "all of these new fangled electronic games"...

I think it will be around. Look at folks like Rottendog. Once these games have passed their shelf life of Being sold as NIB, someone will gain access to the proprietary necessities and make good use of them to keep games alive

There’s some truth in that.

Yeah, that’s what I’m hoping.

I just wish Stern and JJP would use Williams-style socketed boards where you can just put an RGB LED bulb with a bayonet base into a holder and twist-lock it into place. Replacement would cost like 30-40 cents when a bulb goes out.

Pinball 2000 was proprietary and poorly thought-out, being tied to specific motherboard chipsets and when those motherboards had leaking caps, it became a real problem. With Nucore, all that was figured it out and made the whole thing more stable after the fact. People will find a way to keep these running, too.

I didn’t realize that was a possibility, but yeah that would be great.

That would be nice in a way but would also make all the boards larger and let's face it, sometimes those twist in sockets aren't the most reliable either once the legs and pads start getting corroded. The board they twist into would still have to have some kind of circuit on it in order to drive each line to choose / customize the color.

Yes, all that is true, but it would be much cheaper to maintain. I'd trade a little extra bulk for much cheaper repair if ONE light goes out.

By the way, according to JJP, Butch has continued to watch pinside and take user feedback to tweak the install instructions/document.

Here we go....!!!!

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It’ll be fun.

Butch is great at instructions and manuals. His JJP technical manuals are the best in the business, bar none.

Had a really great chat with Stephen at JJP... super nice guy. Passionate!

I think the safe bet is to keep popular titles, that has been made in many copies.
With high demands, you are pretty safe i guess.
Woz is probebly a much safer bet, then for example JJP pirates.

I needed to sell my 7.5 buffered boards, was thinking 250 including shipping INCONUS is fair. The rainbow board had an LED crapping out on it, but everything else works. I bought several of those single LED boards (btwn. 6-10) as well and some wires that I never used. It also has some other random board that JJP accidently sent me. My WOZ didn't have a separate power supply, all the power came from under the box.

I just listed mine with pics for about what you're asking in the pinside marketplace and sold them in a week or two.

I sold mine for $300, but all of my large boards worked. Your price is certainly fair.

I picked up a WOZECLE from the old Marvin estate that I haven't had a chance to set up yet. As I was told, it has the original 5V boards on it, and the rainbow board was defective and removed (no idea on wiring).

Would one of you fine folks tell me the pros/cons of purchasing one of your 7.5V boards vs. the 2.0 boards? $250 sure seems a lot more palatable than $800.

2.0 kit and don't look back. As long as you are considering replacing boards that is. One additional minor factor - if the game has a 5v system now and you move to 7.5v then add in the cost of a 7.5v switching power supply (admittedly not too expensive but you still need to get one). 2.0 kit replacement boards are much cheaper and remember you can sell off your 5v boards and recoup some of the cost of the kit. Plus the 2.0 system has proven itself solid and reliable so far so the need for replacement boards should be less also.

If you're changing boards, no question go 2.0. The effort is very high and quite frankly only in the Pinball industry would a company be allowed to put this on the consumer to replace their inherently flawed design.

cextion and I completed this today - it took us 2 days of work.

A couple of hiccups we had which were frankly minor given the scope of the operation:

1. At one point the game refused to boot, which was alarming, resolved by jumping two pins on the motherboard. Apparently this is a thing that happens sometimes?
2. We got trough errors which turned out to be one of the 4 pin power connections to the supply that wasn’t plugged in.
3. There are some dangling wires under the castle playfield causing stuck balls, so we have to pull the castle and sort that out.
4. One of the rubber stoppers that holds on the rainbow plastic broke during the operation. We improved a macguyer solution, but the kit really ought to include fresh ones for this possibility. (It does include fresh plastic locks, just no rubber ones.)

All in all this was a long but very rewarding project. I enjoy legos and things like that, this was fun to do and I am happy his WOZ will now give him years of trouble free use.,

Totally agree with this. I hate those rubber standoffs. That was one of the most stressful parts for me.

JJP I’m sure will send you some replacements if you let them know.

Just joined the 2.0 club.

Thanks to all of you who have posted tips and suggestions here. It made the conversion process much easier although I must say that JJP has clearly listened to customer feedback on this. I was not missing a single piece and the instructions were very clear. Timewise I was in line with the average (somewhere in the 12 hour range spread over a few days with some cleaning, rerubbering and cliffy installation thrown in as long as I had the mini playfields out).

My new lights did not work correctly the first few times I booted the game, but a fresh installation of the latest code took care of that. Fingers crossed for a reliable future of woz lighting!

I’ve purchased the 2.0 lighting system and received the very next day. I’m going to hold off installing till I begin to have light board issues. So far my early woz, after installing a few bds years ago has worked perfectly (knock on wood). I really want to see how long my lights will remain working. Not looking forward to the install, but all of you that have, have been encouraging. Good to hear from those that went through the install.

I understand the thought, but just be advised, there is risk with the direction you are taking. My 2.0 set had a bad board from the beginning (broken cap leg) and you may play heck getting that board replaced 2 years from now when you finally decide to install the kit. save yourself the issues and hassle and just replace it. Once you do, sell the old boards and recover a few bucks and take the wife out for a nice dinner.......

It is kind of fun and satisfying to do - sort of like building a complex LEGO set. Just take your time, follow the instructions to a T, and if you feel unsure about a step - ask!

Let’s see, your in Kansas, so how long will it take you to get to Jersey?

Ok so your in Texas, I can expect you when?
All kidding aside, I know it has to be done. And again, all of you that have done the conversion have said it’s not bad. So, I know it will be sooner than later. Winter may be a good time.

You know...I do have free time right now and I have been considering offering up 2.0 light board install services. Thing is, it wouldn't be cheap - it's labor intensive (12-16hrs) plus the travel cost.

Does anyone know when they started using the 2.0 boards in games?

For WOZ it was very late in the RR run, Hobbit was the new system from the very beginning I believe.

If this was feasible I would think about having you do mine even though I've never had any issues..... We can talk about Wonka while you're installing haha ; )

I did order straight from JJP. Send an email to tech support. They will have a kit made or send you one already assembled. I sent an email and literally had it the next day

December 2016

Yeah, just call. They'll get you one regardless of what the website stock says.

Posted this in the woz fan club as well but thought that it was worth mentioning here, too.

My 2c on the GI brightness of the 2.0 light conversion: I agree with others that have stated that the GI is noticeably less bright. Like others, I have double checked to ensure that all of the GI lights are centered over their tubes. I thought that maybe I had a cognitive bias since I had heard this from others in advance of doing the conversion, but I have had several non-pinhead people (who are totally unaware of this potential issue) play who had played it prior to the conversion and they ALL independently noticed that the game was darker.

It is definitely less bright, but not by much.

But enough for me that while I was on the fence about adding more GI before, I'm now definitely adding some spotlights and trough lighting. Otherwise, it's really not playable for me except in a well lit room