(Topic ID: 86195)

Has Anyone Else Not Received their WOZ LE that Prepaid Years Ago?


By ChadKeller

5 years ago



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There are 323 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 7.
#101 5 years ago
Quoted from ek77:

So Jack is right on JJP schedule

Yes, Caribbean JJP time.

#102 5 years ago

Someone should ask what happened to the Ruby Red that was in Vegas last month, that was in the pics that Jack showed at TPF. That would be a good question to pose to someone in the know. Or, maybe where that Ruby Red is now.

.....just thinking out loud here....

#103 5 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

While I agree that they are overhyped...especially since you don't play the cabinet or even see it for that matter while playing, it is REALLY REALLY nice. It looks and feels awesome. It is better than high res decals without question.

Well said, and I agree completely.

When you are paying top dollar for a new pin, it's the little things that can make a difference. While you don't "play the cabinet", you *do* notice it, and to me, the clear coated cab is definitely a very nice touch, and it is certainly noticeable and better than just decals. I'm definitely impressed with this aspect of WOZLE as it is a nice high quality touch, which is unique to JJP. I like it a lot.

#104 5 years ago
Quoted from pinchamp:

Anyone successful in business has to take risks but instead to take advantage of people who love pinball so they can fund their company is not fair.

If you willingly join in on a pre-pay to order a product that funds a new pinball startup... (and they offer you full money back at any time no questions).. then IMHO they did not take advantage of you.

#105 5 years ago
Quoted from dgpinball:

You're wrong on this point, if nobody had prepaid for WOZ, it wouldn't exist, simple as that. JJP decided to try to build a pinball company based on pre-orders and pre payment, and for the most part it has worked.

This is true, but not what Jack said during his seminars. I think people are getting upset because they were told something different.

He told the audience that he had plenty of capital and lots of people that wanted in on the action, but he was turning away investors at the time as everybody wanted in, but they were not needed. The pre-sales were created for collectors who wanted limited editions, NOT because he was cash poor. He made it very clear, and purposely went out of his way to explain, that the pre-orders were not the cash flow keeping his company afloat. He never said that the pre-orders were the capital needed to start his company, and went out of his way to dismiss that. (I am not saying that is what happened, but rather that is the message he wanted to convey that day)

Reality is that building a factory, infrastructure, part supplies, hiring a team, software development (OS, diagnostic system, + rules for that particular machine), taking care of quality control, customer support, and everything else involved is going to take time, especially with the first machine. The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th machines will be cake compared to the first one as the focus will be on the machines themselves and not the problems of making a factory along with the first pin.

I understand the frustration of waiting for a pin to be made as I was in on the first MM remake. Albeit not as fast as people want, the machines will come.

#106 5 years ago
Quoted from ek77:

From the Hobbit thread.
Yesterday at TPF Jack said he has about 200 WOZ ECLEs left to ship.

http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/mpe2014/jerseyjack.mp3

.200 LE's "still to go"
.Planning to ship a few hundred of the 75th versions in July, so let us hope the LE's are finished before then.

#107 5 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Lets not exaggerate, it actually has been 98 days since the 90 days "ish" announcement.

Yeah, I stand corrected, but that is a distinction without a difference. "ish" runs out in a couple weeks and he has 200 to go.

#108 5 years ago

They seem to be flying off the line now so if they up to over 800 machines delivered JJP wont be far off. Lets all just be happy that he did what was promised with huge obstacles and everyone WILL be getting what they paid for. This could have turned out far worse and I have to give Jack full credit with sticking with it no matter what his promises were.

#109 5 years ago

Couple of questions. Someone said that if it wasn't for pre-orders WOZ wouldn't exist, that JJP was built on a
prepay basis. To all the people that prepaid for the WOZ years ago, were you thinking you were funding a start up
company or did you think you were buying a pinball machine. I don't recall ever seeing anything about funding a company? Don't get me wrong, this is not a JJP bashing, quite the opposite I think JJP is the greatest thing to happen to Pinball, I hope Jack and his machines take over the world one day. I'm just curious what all you WOZ people were thinking when you ordered a machine way back when?

18
#110 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinminister:

Couple of questions. Someone said that if it wasn't for pre-orders WOZ wouldn't exist, that JJP was built on a
prepay basis. To all the people that prepaid for the WOZ years ago, were you thinking you were funding a start up
company or did you think you were buying a pinball machine. I don't recall ever seeing anything about funding a company? Don't get me wrong, this is not a JJP bashing, quite the opposite I think JJP is the greatest thing to happen to Pinball, I hope Jack and his machines take over the world one day. I'm just curious what all you WOZ people were thinking when you ordered a machine way back when?

So I knew I was funding a company by buying a machine. My issue is solely that my preorder should have been built, in order it was ordered, well before all these standards floating around in stock at distributors. The fact that I've had my machine almost a year now and the guy that bought my place in line still doesn't have his is totally unacceptable. That is my only gripe and I think it is one that cannot be countered. Preorder people expect to get their machines before everyone else. Not along side or after. Just getting a machine isn't enough.

#111 5 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

So I knew I was funding a company by buying a machine. My issue is solely that my preorder should have been built, in order it was ordered, well before all these standards floating around in stock at distributors. The fact that I've had my machine almost a year now and the guy that bought my place in line still doesn't have his is totally unacceptable. That is my only gripe and I think it is one that cannot be countered. Preorder people expect to get their machines before everyone else. Not along side or after. Just getting a machine isn't enough.

When did your distributor buy the game you bought? I think you said they had just purchased them a month before. Is that correct?

#112 5 years ago

Markmon I agree if this is the case, however put in a similar situation and if in fact costs of the start up far exceeded what was originally projected and if you didnt produce new money/profit to keep the company going so as to produce the machines that were already prepaid, the outcome for those who had money in there could have been far worse. I'm not saying in the perfect world it would be right so as to make more money but perhaps, just perhaps, it was a necessity to be able to live up to the promises and the money that was already in. Im not so sure I wouldn't do the same thing so as to make sure I survived and to make sure everyone in got their machines. Im giving Jack the benefit of the doubt here because Ive met him and I believe this is what ultimately he needed to do. We can all be thankful it worked even if to buy time and find new money to make sure the company rolled on. In no way do I think Jack did this to put more money in his jeans. I also believe the company will get better with game two and perhaps even better for game three. Isnt it good we can even think there will be more to come now?

#113 5 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

When did your distributor buy the game you bought? I think you said they had just purchased them a month before. Is that correct?

It was only a couple weeks before.

#114 5 years ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

This is true, but not what Jack said during his seminars. I think people are getting upset because they were told something different.
He told the audience that he had plenty of capital and lots of people that wanted in on the action, but he was turning away investors at the time as everybody wanted in, but they were not needed. The pre-sales were created for collectors who wanted limited editions, NOT because he was cash poor. He made it very clear, and purposely went out of his way to explain, that the pre-orders were not the cash flow keeping his company afloat. He never said that the pre-orders were the capital needed to start his company, and went out of his way to dismiss that. (I am not saying that is what happened, but rather that is the message he wanted to convey that day)
Reality is that building a factory, infrastructure, part supplies, hiring a team, software development (OS, diagnostic system, + rules for that particular machine), taking care of quality control, customer support, and everything else involved is going to take time, especially with the first machine. The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th machines will be cake compared to the first one as the focus will be on the machines themselves and not the problems of making a factory along with the first pin.
I understand the frustration of waiting for a pin to be made as I was in on the first MM remake. Albeit not as fast as people want, the machines will come.

I went to most of Jack's seminars, and I'll agree that he did say that they weren't depending on the money from the preorders, but I think that if they hadn't presold as many WOZ's as they did, it may not have ever seen the light of day, they needed to know that they had a product that people wanted before taking on the massive task of setting up a new pinball manufacting facility and all that that entails! The preorder/pay was showing your faith in the project, in exchange you got a better price.

As far as the standards/LE thing goes, Jack did say in several talks that they would be producing standard models along with the LE's, just no one really seemed to listen when he said it

#115 5 years ago
Quoted from dgpinball:

I went to most of Jack's seminars, and I'll agree that he did say that they weren't depending on the money from the preorders, but I think that if they hadn't presold as many WOZ's as they did, it may not have ever seen the light of day, they needed to know that they had a product that people wanted before taking on the massive task of setting up a new pinball manufacting facility and all that that entails! The preorder/pay was showing your faith in the project, in exchange you got a better price.
As far as the standards/LE thing goes, Jack did say in several talks that they would be producing standard models along with the LE's, just no one really seemed to listen when he said it

Way back when Jack told us that WOZ would sell in quantities like IJ, TZ and STTNG. In other words well over 10,000 units. The fact that they have basically sold a tenth of what the business was modeled after probably has a lot to do with the continued pre-order model for TH and possibly beyond.

#116 5 years ago
Quoted from dgpinball:

As far as the standards/LE thing goes, Jack did say in several talks that they would be producing standard models along with the LE's, just no one really seemed to listen when he said it

He also said "first to pay first to play" and we know how that turned out. At this point it is what it is. People should know what they're getting into by now. Many have preordered the next game and that's fine. Many have decided to sit on the sidelines and that's fine too. The world still turns one way or the other.

#117 5 years ago
Quoted from gambit3113:

Someone should ask what happened to the Ruby Red that was in Vegas last month, that was in the pics that Jack showed at TPF. That would be a good question to pose to someone in the know. Or, maybe where that Ruby Red is now.

-5
#118 5 years ago
Quoted from dgpinball:

I went to most of Jack's seminars, and I'll agree that he did say that they weren't depending on the money from the preorders, but I think that if they hadn't presold as many WOZ's as they did, it may not have ever seen the light of day, they needed to know that they had a product that people wanted before taking on the massive task of setting up a new pinball manufacting facility and all that that entails! The preorder/pay was showing your faith in the project, in exchange you got a better price.
As far as the standards/LE thing goes, Jack did say in several talks that they would be producing standard models along with the LE's, just no one really seemed to listen when he said it

The LE game would never have seen the light of day if Jack had not kept the preorder money flowing standard's anniversary editions and even Hobbit money. With out the investor I have do not think the Hobbit would have seen the light of day.

#119 5 years ago
Quoted from ChadKeller:

JJP has been giving us the run around. First, it was Dec. Then Jan., then March. Well, still no games. .

Quoted from PinFan4Life:

My neighbor has been waiting 3 years now on his WOZ LE (paid mid-2011). They have been saying "next month" for a year now.....

Quoted from John_I:

Way back when Jack told us that WOZ would sell in quantities like IJ, TZ and STTNG. In other words well over 10,000 units.

Quoted from jarjarisgod:

He also said "first to pay first to play"

Quoted from dgpinball:

I went to most of Jack's seminars, and I'll agree that he did say that they weren't depending on the money from the preorders

Quoted from JoeGrenuk:

Jack *said*, 115 days ago, that ALL the LE's would ship in "90 days-ish".

um....
well...
maybe this clears it up:

Quoted from JerseyJack:

If I look back I would say that I was "too honest" .

#120 5 years ago

my god lowepg let it go already. You seem consumed about proving someone, trying to do their best and advance pinball for EVERYONE, is some lying monster. I for one am getting quite sick of it, really move on they are almost there and have full filled their promise. Im sure you are the saint of never trying to be optimistic!

#121 5 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

my god lowepg let it go already. You seem consumed about proving someone, trying to do their best and advance pinball for EVERYONE, is some lying monster

He did lie! He's not done yet either it appears

Quoted from wcbrandes:

Im sure you are the saint of never trying to be optimistic!

It's difficult to differentiate optimism & ignorance when it comes to WOZ threads lol

#122 5 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

my god lowepg let it go already. You seem consumed about proving someone, trying to do their best and advance pinball for EVERYONE, is some lying monster. I for one am getting quite sick of it, really move on they are almost there and have full filled their promise. Im sure you are the saint of never trying to be optimistic!

"someone trying to advance pinball for everyone" ... stop, I'm beginning to tear up....
Silly me- I thought he was trying to make money.

I'm not a saint, but I am a salesman- perhaps that's why I have such a low threshold for people that lie to sell their products....

and please spare me the BS about him just being "optimistic." Do you really believe he was so far out of touch with his own production planning and/or supply chain that he predicted all remaining LE's to go out within 90 days- only for them to REALLY ship about 100? If he's not lying he's completely incompetent- which do you choose?

And, for a little more insight- I have a very close friend who's ALSO been lied to for the better part of a year waiting on their WoZ.... he's been given a load of bullshit from Jen?Jack nearly every month for the last 9 months.

I'll stop calling out the liars when they stop lying. Sound fair?

#123 5 years ago

Im not saying he has kept his word, and hasn't performed to what he occasionally states out of his mouth. What I'm saying is he's in a tough business (huge start up) and there are gonna be hic ups that eventually prove what he promised wrong. We ALL get that. So now its time for the usual suspects to move on because in the end everyone will get their product and a damn fine one at that. I dont care for lies either, I do however give credit where credit is due and I also can figure out without having to state negatives all the time that the guy did his best to the best of his ability. If its not good enough for certain people then state and move on. Some just cant let it go. Cant wait to see whats next! Bring on The Hobbit

#125 5 years ago

rehashing the same tired arguments. once again, i have the ultimate solution, if you dont like the way JJP does business, simply dont buy their products. Unless you guys really just enjoy copying and pasting the same stuff over and over again. *shrug*

#127 5 years ago

yea your right been here done this. Negative sales people are a huge pet peeve of mine.....discuss

-5
#128 5 years ago

In before the lock!

#130 5 years ago

agreed. time to lock this thread. It, like many others, has turned to trash talk again. Sigh.

#131 5 years ago

I havent read this entire post but I would be pissed if I hadn't gotten my LE and Reds are being made. Thats bull in my opinion. It begs the question, are Reds being made and sold?

#132 5 years ago

No they aren't. Again people purposefully spreading misinformation.

#133 5 years ago

There were two Red prototypes that were made in 2013 and have been touring the country. I played one of them at SPF in November. Though it may have fooled some (including me) for a moment recently, they are not in production!

11
#134 5 years ago

ChadKeller said:
JJP has been giving us the run around. First, it was Dec. Then Jan., then March. Well, still no games. .

PinFan4Life said:
My neighbor has been waiting 3 years now on his WOZ LE (paid mid-2011). They have been saying "next month" for a year now.....

John_I said:
Way back when Jack told us that WOZ would sell in quantities like IJ, TZ and STTNG. In other words well over 10,000 units.

jarjarisgod said:
He also said "first to pay first to play" (That's the Pinocchio moment, right there..the only thing he could control 100% by himself)

dgpinball said:
I went to most of Jack's seminars, and I'll agree that he did say that they weren't depending on the money from the preorders

JoeGrenuk said:
Jack *said*, 115 days ago, that ALL the LE's would ship in "90 days-ish".

um....
well...
maybe this clears it up:

JerseyJack said:
If I look back I would say that I was "too honest" .

I don't know why all the thumbs down on Lowpeg's post. It is 100% accurate. And "too honest"...geez. That's like when James Clapper told Congress about getting caught lying on the NSA spying deal "It was the least untruthful thing I could have said". WHAT????

#135 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

No they aren't. Again people purposefully spreading misinformation.

It's a fact that one of the machines has been touring around, which is very confusing. No one has to be purposefully or maliciously spreading misinformation to think that the red WOZ they just saw in the flesh means they're being made. Control of the narrative on that has been lost if it's appearing at public events.

It was a F-you move to make those editions, and people are rightly upset about it. Seeing one around makes it perfectly reasonable to think someone has already had their's delivered.

#136 5 years ago

I love these discussions! Please don't close it down, its a great experiment/indictment on human psychology

The ONLY people that I care about their opinions are the 200 or so left waiting to get their LE's. What else is there to say, Jack lied, distorted the truth, so where to go from here:

Option A : Run JJP out of business like the lying, cheating bastards that they are, speaking with your wallets! Great for pinball right?

Option B : LET IT GO, move on, aside from the furious people still waiting and getting jumped in line it appears, it is what it is, no secrets or revelations here, the Aussies and remaining 200 LE's deserve a medal.

Some of the dirty dozen whiny little b*tches need to pull the corn cob out of your arse, spread some butter on it, wrap it in bacon and shove it in your pie hole Get your crybaby blankets out and complain some more about the "Woz fan club"....hehe, good lord.....I'm saying this with a chuckle and smile on my face in utter amazement.

#137 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Some of the dirty dozen whiny little b*tches need to pull the corn cob out of your arse, spread some butter on it, wrap it in bacon and shove it in your pie hole Get your crybaby blankets out and complain some more about the "Woz fan club"....hehe, good lord.....I'm saying this with a chuckle and smile on my face in utter amazement.

15
#138 5 years ago

Ice I like ya buddy but you sir have Stockholm Syndrome

You're essentially saying we should all play along like all is well in order to protect the nuts of the JJP camp.

I suspect some unfortunate souls won't have their game until 2015! That's great for pinball lol

#139 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The ONLY people that I care about their opinions are the 200 or so left waiting to get their LE's. What else is there to say, Jack lied, distorted the truth, so where to go from here:

Aww, you want to hear from me? I'm waiting. I haven't even called or written JJP. I refuse to be the super squeaky wheel - it just isn't fair to others if I get mine out of order. Have people line jumped? Sure, but they can live that, it doesn't bother me.

Edit - full disclosure, I bought a pre order. Over paid too at the high point, but I haven't waited the full 2.5 years like some.

#140 5 years ago

Gene Cunningham needed the money for BBB paid in advance (50% immediate deposit required and the other 50% unexpectedly asked for just three or four months later) in order to fund ordering parts for the game. He incorporated a separate company for the BBB project, so his parts business and his personal finances wouldn't be at risk if the project failed (in that case only the prepaid purchasers' money would have been lost). All the development, artwork and programming for BBB had already been done by Capcom. Gene only had to have parts made and then have the games assembled. The toughest part would have been if he had to get the Capcom boardset made, but he avoided that trouble by limiting the number of BBB games he would make to the number of boardsets he already had. It still took more than two and a half years for those of us who preordered and paid in advance to get our BBB games. Other than a handful of games exported early to Europe in order to clear customs before a European union ban on lead-based solder (as in the existing Capcom circuit boards), the rest of us all got our games (either picked up in or shipped out from Bloomington, IL) on a Saturday in July 2007 known as Big Bang Bar pick-up day.

It was unrealistic to expect JJP to design, develop, program, source components, and manufacture a brand new game from square one (especially of ground-breaking design like WOZ) in even the 2-1/2 years it took Gene to make BBB. Based on this, I fully expected it to take JJP three years minimum (or even more) before a single WOZ would be actually produced. If JJP had announced this kind of timetable from the beginning and still required payment in advance, how many would have willingly paid up thousands of dollars knowing it would be at least three years or more before they received their game? And if JJP, like Gene for BBB, needed the deposit money in order to fund the cost of development and/or parts, would the lack of prepaid orders have killed WOZ right then in its tracks? I think Jack was foolish with his optimistic initial timetable. But I think a more accurate projected availability date would have killed pre-sales and doomed the whole project.

The variable with WOZ that wasn't present with BBB is games sold by distributors and by JJP (all BBB games were only sold by Gene through IPB). I am sorry for those who pre-ordered and paid for WOZ years ago but who still do not have their games due to this inequitable situation.

#141 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

It's a fact that one of the machines has been touring around, which is very confusing. No one has to be purposefully or maliciously spreading misinformation to think that the red WOZ they just saw in the flesh means they're being made. Control of the narrative on that has been lost if it's appearing at public events.
It was a F-you move to make those editions, and people are rightly upset about it. Seeing one around makes it perfectly reasonable to think someone has already had their's delivered.

The fact remains in this thread the ones starting the BS about the red games are ones who know full well only 2 exist and that one is with a distrib being toured. So one can only deduce that the reason they are insinuating something devious is afoot is to stir up trouble. I don't have to call them out. It's obvious.

#142 5 years ago
Quoted from PW79:

Ice I like ya buddy but you sir have Stockholm Syndrome
You're essentially saying we should all play along like all is well in order to protect the nuts of the JJP camp.
I suspect some unfortunate souls won't have their game until 2015! That's great for pinball lol

Come on Curly, you played it right, didn't pre order Woz and will buy a Hobbit when it comes out, there really is no "JJP camp", its just pinball and some non Wozer rubberneckers seem hell bent on spewing non stop stupidity.

Blast away all you want, at the end of the day, you and many others will buy a Hobbit or future JJP pin because its well, just a great pin. All this other BS won't amount to anything. Kind of like pissing in the wind!

And Curly, what about the 800 plus standards that do have their pin? Great for pinball, YES

#143 5 years ago

I ordered the evening of June 30, 2011 from the Pinballsales website. My invoice is dated July 1, 2011. After watching the order dates and deliveries closely, I expect my machine to be in final testing any day as long as there are no other delays.

Basically I am still waiting to answer the original topic question.

#144 5 years ago
Quoted from absocountry2:

I ordered the evening of June 30, 2011 from the Pinballsales website. My invoice is dated July 1, 2011. After watching the order dates and deliveries closely, I expect my machine to be in final testing any day as long as there are no other delays.
Basically I am still waiting to answer the original topic question.

Man I'm excited for you Abso!

#145 5 years ago

My invoice number is very close to 2500, I have seen several close to that ship in the shipping thread. Not looking forward to shipping price, it is ~$900 to here.

-4
#146 5 years ago
Quoted from absocountry2:

My invoice number is very close to 2500, I have seen several close to that ship in the shipping thread. Not looking forward to shipping price, it is ~$900 to here.

Won't Uncle Sam help with the shipping charges?

#147 5 years ago
Quoted from absocountry2:

My invoice number is very close to 2500, I have seen several close to that ship in the shipping thread. Not looking forward to shipping price, it is ~$900 to here.

The highest invoice number I have seen that has shipped so far is 2484 which was a late June 2011 order (around the 28th or 29th).
The highest invoice that I have seen someone report that is about to ship is invoice 2491 which was an end of June 2011 order.
Abso, yours likely should be in the next 20 made based on the numbers. Who knows how long it will take for those 20 or less to get made when the distributors are still getting what seems like all they want of the Standards.

#148 5 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Won't Uncle Sam help with the shipping charges?

Why the thumbs down? I thought Abso mentioned he is in the US Military. When my brother in law was in the Navy, I was able to ship him a Space Invaders for $10.00 using his Military shipping discount.

#149 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

The fact remains in this thread the ones starting the BS about the red games are ones who know full well only 2 exist and that one is with a distrib being toured. So one can only deduce that the reason they are insinuating something devious is afoot is to stir up trouble. I don't have to call them out. It's obvious.

Go on, continue with where the other one is... That's the burning question, isn't it?

Here, let me help: it's been sold into a private collection. At one hell of a nice (discounted) price, too! No one can say that none have been sold, because they have...

Hopefully this helps clear up Alex's clear up of the facts.

#150 5 years ago

Uh oh.

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