Mine is fine with playfield protector factory installed.

Is that the full plastic one I was talking about? If so does that thing collect dirt under fairly easy and how hard is it to remove to clean?

What are the mirco afm problems that rate as a disaster ?

There is SOME dirt underneath after prolonged use. Like "a few small pieces of lint" level of dirt. Not bad enough for me to try to get underneath. I think my attempts to get underneath would get more dirt there than I could remove. I can see that eventually to not be the case at some point. But the reflection and smoothness of the playfield from the shield in place more than offsets it.

I would do it again in a heartbeat, and have paid for one on Hobbit.

Hope that answers your question.

This game is only a year old most not even that old what does the future hold?

That does answer it, thanks for the post. I'll probably get one for TH also just for extra protection. Im gonna play it by ear and see if more people come forward with the chipping problem.

What fiasco?

I haven't heard of this either. Are you talking about the tiny missing black trapezoid?

I think the "fiasco" was the Cliffys not fitting, the sling holes in the wrong place and the shooter lane cut wrong so that the plunger hits above the center of the ball.

It's easy to get a router out and fix problems on an empty playfield, it's much harder if you populated it and then found you had to fix things, lol.

just to reiterate ... if i'm reading the thread right, his build date is prior to Mirco doing WOZ playfields. this is apparently not a Mirco playfield. right?

to the OP: that sucks! i hope JJP makes it right!

JJP already did. Sent him a new playfield. He was happy with it, now has regrets apparently?

honestly, if it were up to me, i think i'd rather pay for the new playfield and have JJP swap it, rather than the other way around. seems like an incredibly daunting task to swap a WOZ playfield.

Yes, the Mirco AFM playfields had all of those issues.

It also had poorly installed inserts that started to raise up.

But, the biggest thing was the poor clearcoat that started to break down.

The "fiasco" has to be searched for on RGP, which is why very few are aware.

Also, read about how rude Mirco was when customers addressed these issues with him.

Maybe Bryan Kelly can chime in his frustrations, since he bought one.

He probably looked at the 25 hours of work ahead of him and crapped his pants.

I'd send the playfields back to Jack and let him swap the parts.

Would the WOZ playfield protector prevent this? I wasn't planning on getting it on the hobbit, but after this perhaps the 150 bucks is worth it.

Thats what I said in another thread, I think $150 is a small price to pay to not have to deal with this. I also think if this was a problem a bunch of people would be posting about the same issue. I do feel for the OP though, I would not swap the new playfield, I would ask jack If I could just return the new one he sent and have a new playfield installed instead.

I find it pretty strange (lets say it in a nice way) that you need a playfield protector on a NEW pin that is going to be HUO. And even if it gets on route the quality of the playfield should be damn fine and robust. If that is not possible for >8K I am out.

I hope you get thing straightened out, because I would be upset if that happened to a brand new game.

Not a big deal if you use these.

SNL_1063_05_Oops_I_Crapped_My_Pants.png

Daunting task is what swapping out a average game is but this game has two upper playfields to deal with as well as several other toys not a game one should try for a first time swap.

I think PF wear and what we see here are kinda 2 different things.

When I think of 'wear' I picture a machine that was on route for years...and literally millions of balls rolling over the same spot over and over and over again. Eventually breaking down the 'clear' (or whatever they called it back then)..then through the paint\screen..then to the wood.

This definitely looks like a prep issue. Possibly the PF and inserts not sanded properly...or not cleaned properly before they were screened.

I don't think piling more clear on a new PF would help if it's a prep issue

Agreed... take a look at the horse insert in the one picture posted above, he is definitely next to go. You can see the paint cracking, next step is falling apart and then flaking off.

I have been thinking about a WOZ for awhile, but seeing issues like these makes me delay the purchase by 5 years just to see what kind of shape these machines will be in for the long haul.

Its definitely a valid concern and at this point I still have my money on the hobbit but if this ends up being the norm I'll pull my preorder. Someone should direct Jack to this thread, that way we can get an explanation.

Keep in mind that there were 1000+ games and only a very few have had this issue. Nevertheless, as one of the few, its still disconcerting.

They aren't. CGC is making/screening the playfields.

I don't see cracks in the horse insert. There are some lines in the artwork that look like reins, but that is on all of the games.

Thanks for the reply. Mine was cleared by ron so I can't attest to the clear. Slings seemed fine. My issue was the right flipper hole was off by a lot. I had to file it to correct it so the ball didn't hop off the ball guide. I sold that game and have since acquired another one so I was curious before purchasing another one. I knew the mantis didn't fit but I filed it to fit. I can live with those issues. Bad inserts not so much. Thanks again.

My WOZ hasn't lost any artwork, but the clear is extremely brittle, and has chipped at the throne room, castle VUK, drain, and around a bunch of the screws that go into the playfield. I put mylar in front of the drop target, and it still looks fine.

There is no reason anyone should have to pay extra for a playfield that is durable enough to hold up in home use without issues. I've owned dozens of Bally/Williams games from the years when they used "diamond plate" (auto clear) products and I've never seen one playfield that had sections of paint flake off the playfield, even after years of commercial use. Abrasive wear, sure, but no flaking of the paint. It's also unclear that the layer of "floating" mylar (aka "playfield protector") would absorb sufficient impact to preclude any chance of aggravating defective artwork on a playfield.

This is clearly a manufacturing and/or raw material (plywood) defect - hopefully affecting a limited number of games - and should be dealt with promptly by JJP. And the *only* fair corrective action is to send a new fully-populated playfield to those who are affected.

I feel bad not only for the owners, but for Jack, as we know he's tried to put so much quality into these machines, and then to see this happen on home use games must be horribly frustrating for him.

Anyone have any updates from certified routed machines demonstrating any of these issues? If one of these problematic PF's were in the wild under heavy use, the result could be extreme, depending on what the root issue is, and how far it can continue to chip away.

I've seen wear around the pops and the guard in routed games.

And thats even more reason that this should be taken care of by Jack.

The honeymoon period seems to be over for JJP rabid JJP fans would have had this thread locked down a year ago.

I just looked over my machine top to bottom. No issues here. Have about 500 games on it. I received my game in the last batch.

the honeymoon was over quickly behind closed doors.

Pain chipping?...oh, the pain!

That may be the case as Mirco hasn't been making WOZ playfields for very long. However, that's not to say playfields from the original manufacturer might also be used.

It's actually easy to tell who made the playfield. If it's 1/2" thick and 5 ply, it's from Mirco. If it's 5/8" thick and 7 or 9 ply, it's the original manufacturer.

Directors notice everything....."pain chipping" it’s like a snake shedding its skin.

So I'm confused as to whether these playfields with the chips are Mirco or not. Can someone clarify? I'm not surprised the original maker (non-Mirco) fields have problems. I thought Jack originally said the original producer was new to making playfields way back (and had not made one before).

I know it takes a very big learning curve to make a good playfield (one that stands up to a pinball) and involves many many minute details to get right. Right wood, right prep techniques, right sanding, right glue, right clear, right amount of clear (not too thick or you get chips). I was in on many of the behind the scenes details of CPR going through growing pains as they perfected their recipe. Making a playfield is about 10x more complicated than it would appear.

I really hope JJP has a handle on this. I'm in on TH and wasn't planning on getting that big playfield protector, but a dime sized chunk of art going missing would kill me.

Those photos were from my HUO game. The flaking started after around 1000 plays. While I have a new playfield in hand, I've decided not to swap it for now and keep playing the old one. Recently, a large flake came off right above the top pop bumper by the Winged Monkey inserts. My game was built 9/23/13. There is obviously a defect in the clear on my playfield or at least the insert preparation. I do also see chipping and flaking around the castle VUK hole, but that sounds fairly common. The large paint flakes do not appear to be a widespread problem or I'm sure we'd hear a lot more about it.

Paint flaked off near Winged Monkey inserts

Paint flake

Do you think there would be any benefit to getting my new WOZ playfield cleared to maximize my chances of avoiding this issue? Or if this is an insert/clear prep problem, would that even help? I'm certainly not in any hurry to swap playfields at this point, but want to end up with a nice playfield that won't have this issue after 1,000 plays.

_{Post edited by Q-Dog: Fixed typo in build date (wrong year)}

I just noticed after looking at the photos I posted above, it looks like there is a rubber bumper missing from the post in the first photo. Is this just missing from my game, or is it not installed on anyone else's? I certainly don't need any additional wear on the ball coming off the pop bumper. I'll have to dig up a spare and put it on that post.

I noticed that your mini post is missing the rubber.

I thought one of the things that was being trumpeted about was how WOZ playfields had more layers than Stern playfields. Did this change and it is no longer the case?

It's so obvious when looking at the photo, but I never noticed it when looking at the game for the past 14 months. It must have been overlooked during assembly. I don't think I have any black ones on hand, so it will have to be white for now...

I don't know how many plys in a Stern playfield and I'm too lazy to go look at one of mine. All I know is, if you want to tell if your playfield is from Mirco, it will be 1/2" thick instead of 5/8". Mirco's also have fewer plys then the original WOZ playfields.

Just to add some data. I have a non Mirco playfield (don't know who made it). I have had the pin for a year now with over 1k plays no damage to the PF at all still looks really good.

I have one of the playfields that were at the OH show 2 years ago for $200, and it's only 1/2" thick.

I'm not sure all the stuff like the Williams flipper bushings would work if the playfield was somehow 5/8" thick....someone would have to show me a picture so I can wrap my head around it.

You're missing the rubber. It's supposed to be there.

This is really starting to worry me. This type of problem should not be happening so early. Ive got several pins with thousands of plays and no wear like this. I inspected mine really close and im all good so far but I only have 288 games started and 169 played. ( my kids like to start games and not finish them ).

I love my Wozle but all these concerns are really starting to worry me. My drop target still makes a crazy amount of noise every 3-5 games and I've played with my lockbar for hours and it still doesn't work properly. My crystal ball doesn't work every 10-15 games and I've had a few light lock ups. That said, every time I turn it off and restart it, its all good again.

If a piece of playfield popped off like this on mine, as much as the whole family loves it, that maybe the last straw.