(Topic ID: 154280)

Has anyone clear coated a CPR repo playfield?


By Kingpin22

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 40 posts
  • 22 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by pinster68
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

  • Taxi Williams, 1988

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#1 3 years ago

I finally got my hands on a Taxi repo CPR playfield Considering getting it clear coated. Just curious if others have done this and how it turned out. Thanks for any input.

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#3 3 years ago

I had my CPR Taxi playfield cleared by Kruzman. Needless to say it was perfect. Sorry no pics, its in the box waiting to be installed....someday.

John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, Mi.
269-979-3836

#4 3 years ago

What John said...heard many people send to Kruzman to clear.

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from Captive_Ball:

What John said...heard many people send to Kruzman to clear.

And you can have them sent directly to Kruzman from CPR, saving some $ on one leg of shipping.

I can't imagine investing the time and $ in a PF swap and not taking advantage of that opportunity to have the new PF properly perfected and cleared.

#6 3 years ago

Sent my repo funhouse PF to Chris H or HEP. Could not be happier. I think if you are starting with blank PF send it to a professional first.

#7 3 years ago

Yep and it came out beautiful. SS done buy our guy Savage here in Australia. 6 coats and so nice to play.

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#8 3 years ago

My god people, it's "repro" not "repo"!

I don't understand why anybody would re-clear a CPR playfield. You can "perfect it" yourself following the instructions on CPR's site. The equipment and supplies more than pay for themselves. And why would you add more clear for a game that will be HUO? Wax it once a year, done.

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from Dayhuff:

its in the box waiting to be installed....someday.

I'll save you a lot of time and work by taking it off your hands!

#10 3 years ago

Oh and found these as well.

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#11 3 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

My god people, it's "repro" not "repo"!
I don't understand why anybody would re-clear a CPR playfield. You can "perfect it" yourself following the instructions on CPR's site. The equipment and supplies more than pay for themselves. And why would you add more clear for a game that will be HUO? Wax it once a year, done.

Yes but sometimes there are imperfections as was the case with mine. So slight airbrushing required to get it perfect and then some flow coats. It was way better than when I originally received it.

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

And why would you add more clear for a game that will be HUO?

You wouldn't. You'd replace it.

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

My god people, it's "repro" not "repo"!

Lol, thanks for the input. I had my Kiss clear coated by Ron and I' m spoiled. I just was checking to see how the CPR playfields turn out after clear coating before sending it off. Ron says that's about 60 % of his volume.

#14 3 years ago

I would argue that the benefit to sending it out is not in the additional layers of clear. There is no real need for layer upon layer as pinball machines are not kept outside in direct sunlight and harsh conditions.

The first advantage to me would be in any touch ups to imperfect artwork or coloring. On a new playfield these errors should be very minor and only noticeable under close inspection. The second reason is that color sanding would be included as the final step. If you don't already know that is the process of sanding the clear coat flat and then buffing it back up to a high gloss finish.

I would recommend color sanding and buffing a new CPR playfield only. The flatter the finish the more the art pops. This is what I do. There is more than enough clear from CPR. It will make a nice difference. Remember as soon as it is "perfect" a steel ball rolls on it and it becomes scratched immediately.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from Kingpin22:

Lol, thanks for the input. I had my Kiss clear coated by Ron and I' m spoiled. I just was checking to see how the CPR playfields turn out after clear coating before sending it off. Ron says that's about 60 % of his volume.

The last 2 playfields I got from CPR were great. I know that it took them some time to get to this level of quality, but I'm thrilled with Whirlwind and Medusa.

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#16 3 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

I don't understand why anybody would re-clear a CPR playfield

Quoted from Tbgolfen:

There is no real need for layer upon layer as pinball machines are not kept outside in direct sunlight and harsh conditions.

CPR playfields will dimple like crazy with just a few hundred games. A Kruzman CC on a CPR pf will have minimal dimpling if any. I know the argument that wood is different and some dimple more than others but if you compare multiple pfs between the two the difference is undeniable.

#17 3 years ago

Medusa, straight out of the box - I have not buffed it out yet.

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#18 3 years ago
Quoted from helicopter:

CPR playfields will dimple like crazy with just a few hundred games. A Kruzman CC on a CPR pf will have minimal dimpling if any.

I don't believe you. There's no such thing as a playfield that doesn't dimple. I had Chad Keller clearcoat a CSI for me, and after a few hundred plays it was dimpled as much as any of my games. This is physics: steel ball vs. flexible coating on wood. It's been discussed multiple times on Pinside.

If you're really worried about dimpling, spend $100-150 on a playfield protector (IMO). Much more effective against dimples than more clearcoat.

#19 3 years ago

Id so love a REPO SS pf.......all cleared and shiny. She and I would have many magical moments.

#20 3 years ago

I get every repro pf I buy cc'd again - except for Peter's in Germany - his are good to go.

#21 3 years ago

Why not buy them uncleared? Serious question. I thought CPR had that option at one point.

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#22 3 years ago

Hello, I have been getting a lot of questions about this post. Here is a bunch of info that you can leave or take. I am not bumming on cpr or their work, I love cpr. My work is similar to hennesy or Shelby, or amg. I take a regular stock production piece and make it a functional work of art.

My cpr medusa looks great also. It will look quite a bit different in 4 months (uninstalled) as it cures. The way I minimalize this effect is after I sand off all of the cpr clear, I do 2 coats at a time with more than 2 weeks between. That way it will not sink in to the inserts and wood grain months down the line.

I use a clear material that I have spent over a decade experimenting and going to trade classes and exhibits to find the best for this application. I see clearcoat jobs with mylar under them (god help us) but it makes me wonder what kind of prep was done. How did they sand the surface for clearing without sanding the mylar?

I am not going to list all of my trade secrets, but I do about 20 hours of stuff besides the clearcoat, plus I make sure all of the print is correct, as well as go thru every insert level and make sure there is no hairline crack around it (between the plastic and wood).

No everyone is interested in my work, and that dosent mean they should bad mouth it. If you have one game with a stock reproduction pf, and one game with my clear on a reproduction. the first thing you will notice is that the reflections are not distorted in mine. This is because after the last coat I sand the entire thing flat and polish for sometimes over 8 hours. So on day one, they look very different, and after 5 years they look real different. I seal the wood so not to absorb moisture, I do so much more than spray clear. On older nos pf's it is important to remove the old finish, which was designed to have a life of 30 yrs max.

My goal is to make a pf that will still look and play awesome long after I am dead. I bought a centaur game with a stock pf reproduction from john freel (who does great work by the way), and in 300 plays it looked banged up and dimpled so bad it was embarrassing, because people couldn't understand why I didn't clear it.
If you are the type of person who likes his stuff very nice, if you can identify detail and the lack of, if you want to cherish your game for the rest of your life, I can make a cpr pf do that.

If you think shiney is good enough, and you brag about how cheap you did or got something, you will have no interest in what I do. A pf swap is such a huge investment in time and money, plus the pf surface is so important to the look and play.....

I am not posting this to get more work, I have not been caught up in 8 years. My clear process takes 8-12 weeks if there is no art work to be done, so if in a hurry, you wont be interested. But if you are one of the people who don't understand why so many people have cpr send the pf's directly to me, now you should have a better idea now. Unless you are just a hater and don't like what I do for one reason or another. Then nothing will change your mind, and I have no interest in trying.

Cpr shouldn't send out uncleared pf's because the ink can be damaged too easily.
I could spend the day making points about the difference between spraying a car and a pf, or why not leave it as is. But I think you are either the type that wants the best, or the type that dosnet want to invest in the best because it is not important to him. There is plenty of room for both and everyone inbetween. cheers, kruzman

#23 3 years ago

as far as no believing that my clearcoat dosent dimple. sorry but it is true. It depends on the wood, and some after a 1000 games will have a couple here or there, But I have seen many that have been installed for 5 years with no dimples. Don't believe it or believe it,

#24 3 years ago

I'm neither a hater or a fan, Ron. I'm just saying that CPR's clearcoat is more than adequate for me. I don't need my playfield to look like a sheet of glass; that doesn't make me a bad person.

Saying that I don't understand the value proposition is not "bad mouthing". It's not even really criticism; I honestly don't understand.

If someone can post pics of a playfield with 1000 or more real plays on it and no dimples, I'll reconsider my opinion on steel balls and clearcoat.

#25 3 years ago

Thanks for the detailed explanation Ron.

#26 3 years ago
Quoted from kruzman:

as far as no believing that my clearcoat dosent dimple. sorry but it is true. It depends on the wood, and some after a 1000 games will have a couple here or there, But I have seen many that have been installed for 5 years with no dimples. Don't believe it or believe it,

Ron, pics or it didn't happen!

Brad

#27 3 years ago

I suspect there are more RK playfields hanging on walls than installed in games. I respect that too - some of these playfields really are works of art (especially early Bally). If I had a perfect piece of art, the last thing I'd do is put it in a game.

#28 3 years ago

I don't want to sound negative. I have PDI glass on most of my games, and plenty of people would say that's a waste of money (I disagree). So, I definitely respect that RK can make a playfield look fantastic. The pictures alone show this. But I'm still skeptical (if that's allowed) that there's a difference in long-term wear. My perceptions about playfield dimpling come from Vid's excellent thread. His post here sums it up much better than I can:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/playfield-dimple-reality-check/page/2#post-1630082

If there's a way to use auto CC that doesn't dimple with regular use, I think that's something we'd all like to know about. My gut feeling is that if you played 1,000 games on both a CPR and RK-enhanced playfield, they'd look pretty much alike.

#29 3 years ago

Bummer that the topic became about kruzmans work. The OP asked about clearing and then later stated he had a kruzmans pf which then turned a major corner. But, thanks Ron for giving us some insight into your work. Your work is some of the best out there and I applaud it.

As I suspected, many additional steps are taken by Ron besides just adding some clear. All of those steps he takes, will enhance the fit and finish of a playfield and therefore it is reasonable to do it for those so inclined.

No need to debate the differences between CPR or Kruzman because they are not the same processes. We can appreciate both. As always, it is up to the consumer to decide what is of value.

#30 3 years ago
Quoted from Tbgolfen:

Bummer that the topic became about kruzmans work. The OP asked about clearing and then later stated he had a kruzmans pf which then turned a major corner.

I think this topic actually has more bang for your buck info than the OP had originally intended. Reducing (or completely eliminating) impact dimpling seems very relevant to this conversation.

I am a fan of Ron's work and appreciate him taking the time to add to the conversation. Only way it could get any better IMHO is if the other top dogs came out and gave us their opinion as well.

#31 3 years ago

I'm going to send my Space Shuttle to Chris H. for leveling and clear coating one of these days. Same thing for my NOS Who Dunnit PF before I install it.

#32 3 years ago

I have had Chris H. clear a EK and a WW CPR playfield for me. Both had small imperfections that he worked out and the clear on both of them is amazing.

#33 3 years ago

Has anyone put 500 or 1000 plays on a high-end restored playfield? I'd love to see pics. What is it that prevents dimpling? Better quality CC, longer cure times for individual coats, or more coats? Or all of the above?

#34 3 years ago

We can say whatever, I want to see pics of a high-end cc playfield witht least a 500 plays on it, please
Mike

#35 3 years ago
Quoted from kruzman:

I think you are either the type that wants the best, or the type that dosnet want to invest in the best because it is not important to him. There is plenty of room for both and everyone inbetween. cheers, kruzman

Very well said Ron.

I don't own a Kruzman playfield YET, but have several friends who do. Without naming names - I have also inspected the work of numerous other professional restorers. Understand that I am not saying other restorers work is bad - it's just that Kruzman quality is a step above anything else I've seen to this point. His work truly is art.

If you don't understand why someone would want Kruzman to clear their new CPR playfield - you either don't appreciate quality or have not had the opportunity to inspect a Kruzman playfield in person. The difference is instantly recognizable and the contrast striking.

#36 3 years ago

yes

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#37 3 years ago

But do these playfields get played on?

#38 3 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

But do these playfields get played on?

...and if they do, can you actually see any of the artwork with all the reflections from that mirror finish?

#39 3 years ago

I'm actually thinking of taking the shine down on my Medusa playfield, to make it look a little more original.

1 week later
#40 3 years ago
Quoted from woz:

...and if they do, can you actually see any of the artwork with all the reflections from that mirror finish?

You bring up a good point. Everyone likes shiny things, but all that light reflection you're hard pressed to see the actual art, at least as a whole.

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