The number of people isn't the issue. They have Lyman, Dwight, Lonnie, Waison, Tanio...probably a couple more I'm forgetting. The issue is scheduling and collaboration. The designers and programmers aren't collaborating early in the process to come up with a vision that gels the playfield and gameplay together from the get go. The programmers get a playfield and management says "your turn", make it a game in 4 months.

They aren't given enough time to create something, test it, revise it, and complete it before they're thrown into the next project.

This whole thing is an institutional problem at Stern. The programmers they have need more time per project, and the games need to be tested on location and refined before release like they used to. They release games without any real world data - that results in all the physical and code issues the customers end up finding.

This isn't new. This has been going on forever. Stop buying NIB games at launch. Stop buying unfinished NIB games after launch. They have your money & they hear the game earns well from operators. They have zero incentive to fix what's broken.

Wasn't the newly hired Sharpe brother supposed be in charge of better communication about Stern code updates or something?

Currently they don't tell us Jack squat! Worst... year... for code... ever

Stern's development environment is also very archaic. I'll let others speak to that, but it's no surprise that they struggle to get complete code out early and updates take forever. They code like it's the '90s.

It clearly is...as a business owner you have man power that only has so much capacity. Clearly Stern understands or should understand how many average man days are required to bring a game code to maturity (they have a lot of data that should help them figure this out). What I 100% agree with is they don't really care. So until the market reacts, which I believe is starting to happen they will continue their arcane business practices. They were smart to take advantage of the HUO/collector market, and are hopefully reaping those rewards. The challenge with that is all their weaknesses are exposed in the HUO/collector environment, and code is clearly one of them. If most of these machines were on location then game code isn't as big an issue.

Stern only updates us when someone is arrested.

Rumor is Star Wars & Aerosmith did not sell well.

Odds are ACDC wont sell well either IMO.

Bet this (code/QC) slows down orders for GOTG & beyond too.

I have no interest in adding another unfinished game to my rec room.

Stern is my favorite manufacturer but their new games are incomplete with QC issues & it seems every title has power reset bugs now.

Weird.

But don't you guys want to spend $7,000.00 on the latest Guardians Galaxy pin? It's got flashing lights and sfx and a silver ball. They promise.

(Or you could just buy the Blu-ray and a framed movie poster for $60). Hmm

Stern kinda has too many people working there already for the type of business it is, IMO...they have enough people. Poor scheduling and lack of collaborative efforts is the problem. The sad truth is that most of the rich NIB-only newbs have NO IDEA what makes a game good or bad, they just want this expensive neat man-cave toy to look at and casually play a few times a year. Most location players have zero idea as well...they're just popping in quarters cuz the theme looks cool. Stern is essentially a marketing company now....they're marketing a retro-cool game (pinball) with nostalgic themes. They're selling lunch boxes. It doesn't matter to them if the game itself is actually good...they don't factor that into sales projections. They don't think AC/DC sold because of Lyman's amazing code...they think it sold cuz they picked a genius theme. Truth is - it's both. The collaboration of great theme, great design, great code will make a game a great seller AND position them for repeat business from customers who expect more of the same. Unfortunately all their recent decisions have pretty much alienated and turned off repeat business...so, their only customers right now are the uninformed ones, or in the case of Panzer - people who SHOULD know better but ignore the FACTS and buy a game anyway. How long can that last? Stay tuned.

Yep....no longevity in that business model as the market segment is too small....stay tuned is right....

2011 Investors: "Raise prices...dumd down game.....rinse and repeat for 6 years...."
2017 Investors" "How come we are not selling games?"

Thank god for JJP, Spooky, American Pinball, etc... this shell business plan is ending soon.

Stern will rue the day they got lazy and did not squash the competition when they had the chance, by hiring like one more friggin' programmer for coding. Ha ha ha

Me personally, I really hate seeing stern code posts, period.
I've been a member a few years and you guys have been whining the entire time about the code.
Yet, you guys still buy new pins from them.

You have to ask yourselves, is Stern the problem or is it the consumers that buy the pins the problem at this point?
It's not like code update issues are some secret that nobody knows about.

The pins keep selling, why would they invest more time in money in modifying the code?
Vote with your wallet.

Not the issue. Programming good pinball isn't about # of people. They have more people than they've had in the past. It's about scheduling and time.

The one thing Stern has figured out is that if your'e in the manufacturing business, you have to keep manufacturing and keep your factory moving. We don't know if American Pinball can get there. Game 1 hasn't been released and they started their company based on the stupidity of Jpop. I have no faith in them becoming a real player.

So true.

Stern's the first problem, because most of their customers don't read any of this shit here.

As far as "our group" of enthusiasts though - at this point, it's absolutely our fault. Panzer's been here forever, he knows the drill. How on earth can he be shocked or disappointed when he knew what he was getting into.

I stopped buying after STLE and its code issues...and being told by someone at Stern that only 1% of buyers noticed the bugs and missing features, they're rolling in dough, and I should basically just STFU. Even after that, I almost bought a GB cuz I was blinded by the theme. So glad I got a refund before it shipped...SOOOO GLAD.

you can skip it after the 1st electric chair multi-ball in every game now using the flipper buttons

They will totally Rue it! Well after GOTG, i mean people love that. Oh and Iron Maiden casue all pinheads are metal heads for some reason. But then Ster....well no Pulp Fiction after that and i mean obviously that will sell etc
etc
etc

Don't blame the victim. The vast majority of Stern's market is not on Pinside and isn't part of this conversation. Stern shouldn't be screwing over their buyers like this. No business should abandon their product so readily, especially after they pledge their "commitment to code support."

I stopped buying Stern NIB games. It's not worth the hassle. It's not just code, either. They're problematic in preventable ways due to bad QC. These are things that they can easily fix, but they choose not to. So yeah, they stopped getting my NIB money.

If Stern isn't going to provide good code support for the games, that's their decision. But they really need to stop trying to act like they care. That's a double slap to the face.

Agree, but there are signs the market is getting to saturation point, their key demographic is getting older and more and more people are slowly becoming less tolerant of these kind of issues.

Buyers can probably tolerate the cost cutting if they know the games will be fully coded and finished, not 80% and we are done.

Stern will get away with it for who knows how long and then it will hit them hard. Happens to many complacent companies.

May be true but there were also signs that people weren't going to buy Anymore games after that Avengers POS. Then no one was going to spend over 5K, and then 9K, and then 16K...I agree it has to end sometime but that doesn't mean soon.

Must have missed that part...I've never seen any effort to act like they give a shit.

I love all these folks with such fantastic marketing insight on the pinball market. They clearly hired the wrong guy when they hired Zach!

So what's changed in Stern since Zach was hired?

Where's that tumbleweed gif?

This isn't about marketing, and this isn't Zach's problem.

ST Premium is the last newer Stern game I have owned - got rid of it due to the code as well (briefly owned a Family Guy since then, but didn't love it or keep it long). Been mostly 90s DMD, JJP, and CGC for me since then. I really want Stern to succeed, but these issues have continued for years and years, and I have trouble supporting them, despite some cool games. The quality over the last several years has been a deterrent as well.

Regarding the OP: as others have said, this is nothing new with Stern and code, and should really be no surprise to you.

Repeating the call: speak with your wallet.

Ok, all of this is just an opinion...

Stern changed the way they do things after SPIKE came out. The newer platform let them duplicate gamecode easily, and so they do. It is why they are delivering more complete games, but failing to then polish them. The polish is specific to the game, but the underpinnings work as you duplicate it. That makes polish harder and more time consuming to implement.

So now we get more complete, but less inspired games. It is the new world we rallied for. We screamed so loudly for more complete code, that is now what we get out of the gate. It is what it is.

I don't think that's true. Batman '66, yo.

That is probably why SW reminds me of GOT and AS has Kiss in its menus.

At a guess that's more to do with Lyman being the lead coder on BM66, a lot of his past games show he is not the type of guy to simply copy and paste from one of his games to the next.

Based on rumors of poor sales this has already begun.

Stern is the problem.
We can't code the games.
We can fix game play issues.

To me at first it was the code issues that was really rubbing me the wrong way but I did purchase NIB games once they were out for a while 10+ months from launch with above average code dev. But now with their ghosting bullshit they've crossed the line in the sand that I can't move because their is no fixed period to wait and see. Add to that the last 6+ years of price increase.....Which means I have become a HUO buyer.

Their is absolutely no more insentive to buy new. None. Apart from the bragging rights that now come with ghosted inserts and failing node boards (which is also another huge problem in itself). I can fix williams boards but node boards and the new spike system are essentially $$$$ for new boards until they stop producing them. Then what? Wait for Rottendog?

Code wise while 2017 seems like a bad year, I really think the time period between 2014-2015 was the worst.

If anyone from Stern reads these threads, it's clear momentum is shifting and it's likely their sales are going to trend downwards.

Time to ...

c (resized).jpg

Code ....... as of right now they have not corrected the PF issues and SPIKE totally sux. I moving on "for now" and my pinball $$$$ will be put to CGs or JJPs efforts.

Well, well, well...

I'm sure Stern is only fixing issues (incluing code) to make further sales... If there is no demand for rerun a pin lot, then they won't do anything... Only short term money is motivating them.

Maybe to maintain their brand image, like for BM66, can be a reason also...

I'm sure that if pinheads stop buying NIB and the sales go downward, they will react

I want to be able to skip it the first time, if I want. The first time I see it in a game is really the 6000th time I've seen it. It's cute, but I'd like the option is all.

'That is probably why SW reminds me of GOT and AS has Kiss in its menus.'

Hacked script kitty cut-n-paste jobs, and Stern still can't update their games frequently? Lazy. No excuse for this

I'm sure Dwight and Lonnie appreciate being called 'script kiddies'.

People have been saying this forever. Absolutely zero evidence to support its truth.

Why doesn't Stern just offer open source tools to program their machines? If they can't be bothered to take care of issues then why not let the community fix the problems? I'm sure there are plenty of talented people on here that wouldn't mind helping (mostly for bragging rights and all of the hot chicks that come with programming).

Liability issues, mostly.

I would be all over open source code for a pin. There is no real liability, the most basic disclaimer that they will not cover electronics if you use custom code would cover them. I guess they are concerned about their code but realistically there is nothing there of any real value. I understand they don't want their competition being able to read their code. I can't imagine there being anything in a pin that people would be after. I work in gaming and I understand why we are super secretive and do not allow anything custom. There is a lot of money at stake and our competition would steal what we spent years developing. We have a massive online environment that we need to keep fair and balanced and open source would destroy that. I can't think of a single reason beyond it would make them look real bad when the customer's pump out better code than they do.

Haha. Not any other reason? That's it?

That must be the reason no one else has open source on their pins, right? JJP, Spooky, etc.

JJP I can understand they are kinda at the forefront of tech right now. Way more complex with animation and graphical content. Stern I can understand being protective of their newest pins. Is anyone going to gain or steal from the single color DMD era games? Its not like the firmware is secure in any way, you can pull any and all licensed content out of it. My AC/DC is running custom code no liability or concern from Stern at all.

I think you should broaden your search for reasons beyond tech theft.

What, you're not buying the seemingly baseless and self-confirming Pinside rumors that AS and SW are selling poorly? If everyone's saying it, it must be true.

Like I said custom code is already available. No liability issues that I am aware of have ever come up, nor any issue with licensing. I understand Stern would obviously not publicly release any licensed content if they opened their code. I'm happy to hear what I am missing that is a concern?

Custom code is available? You mean I can have the sparky magnet in Metallica pulse every 3 seconds during game play like I wanted?

I'm hoping I can lock all coils on until the pin catches fire because Sterns are all piles.

Yeah, nobody knows. Stern doesn't release numbers and the best you can get is anecdotal evidence. Neither have sold well in our local group of pinheads, but that doesn't mean it's not selling. A distributor might whisper that sales have been sluggish, but another that never said anything might have sold more than expected. It's all fuzzy guessing.

Like I clearly stated the most basic disclaimer would cover them. People run custom code in all kinds of consumer items and its not an issue. My car has it and I could easily melt my engine with it. I actually did melt the motor in my Smart car but I couldn't resist the more than 60% horsepower gain it got me, the little bastard was a rocket. I toned it back in my VW after that Actually when I think of it, my car, phone, pins, gaming systems even my TV all have custom code running on them. I even ran custom code on my CD Mp3 walkman back in the day. This stuff has been around forever.

What custom code runs on Sterns? I know you can replace assets (music, call outs, etc) but to my knowledge that's it.

I hardly think a disclaimer would stop a lawsuit after someone alters code on a pin that burns a children's hospital down and kills 42 sick kids. How would you prove someone altered the code after everything has melted into a pile of radioactive goo?

And if it's no issue, why does not one pinball company use open source code and allow end users to alter their games?

In my opinion losing Keith to JJP was one of the biggest blows Stern ever took as a company. They didn't feel it right away but the hole Keith left is readily apparent now.

I think the game designers themselves need to take more of an interest in seeing their games code brought to a better place and at a quicker pace.

I haven't done much with my pins but I thought someone had pong running on the DMD. That is custom code. Your children's hospital is not a valid point, they won't even let you plug in your phone in a hospital for exactly that reason. Everything needs to be approved in a hospital and they don't just allow any old electronics plugged in. Pinball companies are far from current or with the times. Just because they don't doesn't mean its not possible. Stern is not liable in any way if I mess with my pin and turn it into a bomb.