(Topic ID: 268807)

Hardtop Install and Restoration for Eight Ball Deluxe

By Mathazar

3 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 134 posts
  • 21 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Lovef2k
  • Topic is favorited by 28 Pinsiders

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You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider Lovef2k.
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#10 3 years ago

I like what you're doing so far. Nice work. Having done 3 ebd high end restores myself, I know how much work it can be.

To bad about the guy that did the repaint. That is the hardest part for me as well. I have done 7 so far. For F2K I cut my own stencils.

I'm pretty sure the kick stand or pf prop rod was already black as is the lockdown bar receiver. bally Midway thing.

Good call stripping the pf art completely off.

The tilt section. I take a new piece of plywood and cut it the same size. Then use the original board and drill pilot holes right through the screw holes to make dimples on the new board. If gives the inside of cab a fresh look.

It's neat to see the original cab art on the 84 cab. I'm guessing since the whole cab is particle board, the stencil job was not as good as a plywood cab would turn out? I'm thinking that might be 1 reason they went to decals. That and they are less expensive.

Also he could have used the front stencils to customize the front of the cab.

I will be following your thread.

1 week later
#37 3 years ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Started working on the lower cabinet tonight - stripped it of all the parts, staples and hardware and vacuumed it out. Metals bits that fit have been ultrasonic cleaned and are going thru the tumblers now for the next few days. Going to have to work on the coin door frame pieces, lock bar receiver, and kickstand by hand as they're too big.
A previous owner secured the leg brackets with nails (that rusted) instead of screws. Those were fun to get out....all eight.
Weather permitting, will start sanding this weekend. Maybe start painting next weekend.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

All of the Bally games that I worked on had nails holding the leg brackets. Also a screw in the center hole to secure the ground braid to the brackets.

#43 3 years ago

Looking good! I have a Spy Hunter which has basically the same cabinet. I need to remove the coin door trim in order to replace the cab decals. As you know there is one bolt at the top right corner for the upper coin door trim and the nut on the inside of the cab is recessed. Mine is so deep that I can't get any tool in there to remove the nut. What did you use for yours?

#49 3 years ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

On my EBD, the recessed screw actually has enough space around it to accommodate a nut driver. When I did Black Jack earlier this year, it has that same recessed area and was much tighter....I used a strong needle nose pliers to get that nut tight.[quoted image][quoted image]

I have worked on many Ballys and they are usually very tight but I always manage getting the nut driver in far enough to reach the nut. This Spy seems to be extra deep. I will try the needled nosed pliers. I may have to chew some wood out of the way.

#60 3 years ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Then route the wire through the original harness to reach the back box door. Soldered some jumper wires to the lamp control line on the back box door, then used a 2-pin Molex connector and attached one piece to the jumper wire and the other piece to wires run through the harness.
Now it looks nice and neat, and the wire harness can be easily removed if/when there's a need to take apart the back box for maintenance/restoration. I'm on the fence about restoring the inside of the back box...it's just a little dirty (unlike the interior of the lower cabinet which was a disaster).
One more piece of maintenance due here a bit later....clip out the original battery and pop in a 5101 NVRAM chip. I want to bring up the machine first and make sure it's working after everything I've done in the last few weeks before doing board work on a working MPU.[quoted image]

I agree with making the game the way you want it. The blue is not a permanent change so why not? I plan on doing the same on one of the next 3 EBD's I have lined up for restoration except I'm doing gold powder coat to match the gold on the cab. It will be mostly the inside of the cab, coin box, inner plate on coin door, coin return basket, lock down receiver, transformer plate, pf prop rod, vent screen between head and cab and the rear pf glass support bar.

#76 3 years ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Started disassembly of the coin door tonight - lots of rust and gunk, we'll see how well it turns out. Many parts now sitting in EvapoRust with a few non-rusty parts starting their days-long journey in the tumblers.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I would have thought that the additional layer of the hardtop would throw all of the roll over switches out of whack?

I have restored many bally coin doors. Just a hint make sure to separate the parts for the sba slot as they slightly different but not very obvious. For example the sba coin shute doesn't have the small screw at the end by the opening. The slot opening on the bezel is just a hair longer. Small metal piece is flat where the coin falls into the area at the trip wire. The 25 cent will have an off set that won't allow the sba to drop.

#77 3 years ago

so basically there 3 things that prevent an sba coin from being dropped in a 25 cent shute and causing a jam. First is the coin slot. Then the small set screw at the end of the shute. And finally the small metal piece where the coin falls into collection basket. I think but not sure if an sba makes that far it will jam or fall to the side and go into the coin return slot.

#78 3 years ago

When I was a kid playing f2k in the arcade I was able to cheat the sba slot with a nickel and get 6 credits. It took a few tries but usually worked.

1 week later
#82 3 years ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

And just when things are dialed in, I'm in my 6th or 7th test game when all of sudden the game goes dead except for GI. Reset the game, doesn't boot - 6 flashes only, no 7th flash. MPU showing 7vdc instead of 21.5vdc at the test point. SDB test points ok. Rectifier....F4 blown. Replaced it, game comes up and plays.
About 4 test games into playing, the left sling coil gets stuck on. Immediately shut down, and I find this nice picture below. I've got a spare AN-26-1200 coil that I'll put in this afternoon and keep my fingers crossed that the blown F4 fuse was the first indication that the left sling coil was physically damaged and on its way out.[quoted image]

No 7th flash when 43v is dead from F4 blowing. If a playfield coil has shorted, the PF fuse should have blown first. Verify that you have a 1 amp slo-blo fuse on PF. Also the broken sling coil doesn't look shorted, only open? Unless it did short from the open diode?

#85 3 years ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Lovef2k - plot is thickening here. I put in the replacement coil, and it immediately energizes at power on. I jury-rigged up the original coil with the broken tabs with a new diode, and it also immediately energizes at power on. All fuses are ok, including the fuse pack under the playfield (my 1984 looks different....there's a cluster of 3 fuses in the spot where the 1A SB fuse goes under the 1981 playfield).
Where should I go next? Blown transistor on the SDB? The left sling should be Q6 on the SDB....it physically looks ok on the board, but that doesn't mean anything. My SDB is a Rottendog BPS022 but I think the Q, R, CR, etc. numbers are the same/line up with the original Bally SDB.[quoted image]

Sorry for the slow reply, I was painting. A shorted transistor as mentioned above will cause the coil to lock on. Yes the RD numbers should be the same. I never had the 3 fuse version EBD, what are they for?

1 week later
#94 3 years ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Finally took care of something that had been bugging me since the day I got this pin a couple years ago. A previous owner had soldered the power wire for the drop target light board directly to the PCB after the connector housing broke/burned off for that pin. Probably an on-site field fix from back in the day to keep the machine making money. I don't care much for IDC connectors so I just replaced it with a Molex connector.
I'm in the home stretch here - should finish this up this week. In a couple of days my latest care package from Marco's will arrive - among other things for other pins, I picked up some new leaf switches for the EBD Slings. The original switches are like wavy noodles from hundreds of adjustments over 36 years and I can't dial them in the way I want them. Either they're machine-gunning or they're not scoring consistently...there seems to be no happy medium so I said screw it and I sprung for the ~$30 to restart with new, fresh, and straight set of 4 leaf switches!
[quoted image][quoted image]

Good job! IDC connectors are the worst. On the 3 EBD restores that I complete, I replaced all connectors in the game to Molex. It adds hours of work but it's worth it. The last EBD I did in 2018, I called the guy that bought to see how the game was doing a year later and the game hasn't missed a beat!

Where did you find Sling switches? I usually rebuild the stacks with new blades from PBR. I still get the machine gunning even with new blades. An old pin head told me to stretch the rubbers on the slings and it seems to help.

3 months later
#119 3 years ago

I would also 86 those darn IDC connectors and install Molex. MPU and SDB.

4 months later
#124 3 years ago

When I read about the EBD HT issue, I contacted Outer Edge as well. The original EBD HT had not been installed and they sent a replacement anyway.

7 months later
#127 2 years ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Respectfully disagree (and I've recently done a CPR playfield swap on my new Meteor project). When it works right, hardtops are way easier to install and 2 years later the three I've done still look like new. The ink/adhesion problem that affected a couple of hardtop batches was rectified last year.

I agree. I have done 3 EBD CPR swaps. Just running the new trace wire and changing out the lamp sockets is a chore. Also getting the drop target banks aligned before pre-drilling the pilot holes for the banks is tricky and time consuming.

Either hardtop or swap, both are a crap ton of prep and work.

4 weeks later
#129 2 years ago
Quoted from R-64:

Great thread, I have a Space Shuttle hardtop to install (all sanded, inserts yet to go) so this is very useful.
I wonder if any of the bubbling might be caused by
- bolts/hardware pushing sideways against the inside edge of slightly misaligned holes in the hardtop
- pillars or other hardware done up too tight, causing a dip/wave
- air getting in between PF and HT on big gaps with no surrounding hardware
Though I see some of these bubbles are around areas with not much hardware nearby.
Just a thought, this has given me a lot to consider in getting prepared so thanks!

According to Outside Edge the bubbling was a result of the makers of the ht material. The glue that was used was changed wo their knowledge. OE sent me a replacement since I bought one of these when first released. I haven't installed the newer version to tell if any problems have had or will occur.

From the experts I have been told to use a 2 part clear coat as opposed to anything that may take a long time to out gas or cure. So I used spray max. It made the inserts look new again after sanding them from 400 grit all the to 2500 grit. I sanded them dry in fear of raising the surrounding wood grain.

I was also told to use all LED lamps to keep the heat to a minimum so that the HT doesn't bubble up.

#132 2 years ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Overkill IMO. I'm more than happy with how my inserts look after wet sanding prior to laying down a hardtop. 30-60 minutes, no dangerous chemicals or outgassing to deal with, done.
When done right, hardtops are a fantastic alternative to playfield swaps - way cheaper, quicker, and much less invasive while looking and in my experience playing every bit the same in the end. Fortunately, there are solutions for everyone and their budgets ($$ and time).

No big deal, I sprayed outside with a respirator. I was doing a High Speed which has jeweled inserts so clearing is almost imperative. Plus I like adding clear to the ugly worn out shooter lane.

And true, HT is about 30% less work than a complete swap.

#134 2 years ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

I'll tell you what - if I had the space and the money (not to mention the time) I think I'd love to set up a paint booth and graduate from rattle can paint jobs and try my own hand at clearcoating in a full bunny suit/respirator/etc. I've got a tiny space in my garage and my driveway with which to work, and where I live I really only have 6 or so months out of the year to do it. On the flip side, humidity is not an issue in my area.

I'm with ya on that! I was considering a portable spray booth but they ain't cheap. Early Nov and it's already dipping in the low 30's over night in south Jersey.

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