(Topic ID: 268807)

Hardtop Install and Restoration for Eight Ball Deluxe


By Mathazar

56 days ago



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  • 99 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 days ago by Mathazar
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There are 99 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 35 days ago

Made some more progress on the lower cabinet yesterday and today. Before I post additional in-progress pix, know that my favorite color is blue. My truck is blue, my weekend go-fast rides are blue, even the billiard table in the gameroom with my pins has blue felt.

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#52 35 days ago

Eight Ball Deluxe is my favorite pin of all time. I love mine - I'll never let it go (or, if I have to get rid of my collection for some reason, it'll be the last to go). Therefore, I've got no qualms about putting a touch of my own customization on it. I know there are die-hard purists out there who even cringe at the thought of putting down a hardtop, and they're probably going to hate what I've done. Doesn't matter to me....it's my game and I like the way it's turning out!

Here's a Before and After of the lower cab from the front. Even tho the lock bar receiver assembly cleaned up nicely, I really like the label Titan Pinball makes...it's a nice finishing touch IMO.

The EBD plastic posts and the top lane guides on the playfield are blue as they were originally. I used blue skirts on the pop bumpers - thought that complimented them nicely. Then I carried the blue accent theme out to the flipper buttons and, ultimately, the lower cab.
Lower Cab 01a (resized).JPGLower Cab 01b (resized).JPG

#53 35 days ago

Here's a Before and After of the tilt board. Believe it or not, I reused all of the original pieces....most (like the trough and ball) spent about 4 days in the tumbler getting all of the tarnish and black paint overspray off. Pretty pleased with how it turned out....can't believe that's the same tilt ball! Don't pay attention to the black screw in the lower right of the tilt board....I ran out of new silver ones and will replace it after my next trip to Home Depot.

Tilt Board 01 (resized).JPGTilt Board 02 (resized).JPG
#54 35 days ago

More pix from different angles. One of the more painstaking activities was scrubbing every inch of the wire harness with a toothbrush and Mean Green to get all of the black paint overspray off.

Most of the work of the lower cab is done now (I've got the legs soaking in Evaporust....they'll be ready for repainting in a few days). Next up is some minor re-wiring work in the backbox and a tear down/clean/rebuild of the coin door.

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#55 35 days ago

I like the blue. It looks fantastic!

#56 34 days ago

Here's a better shot of the repro line voltage caution card. It's all washed out in the previous photos.

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#57 33 days ago

A little wiring update in the back box this afternoon...this has been bugging me for a couple of years. I have the Alltek Lamp Driver Board and the Alltek Auxiliary Lamp Driver Board installed so that I can run LEDs. The Alltek boards require power to be tied in from the lamp control line - this is usually done by alligator clipping a wire from the lamp control line on the back box door to the appropriate pins on the Alltek boards. Works great, but it's time to make it look a little better by incorporating those wires into the Bally harness. I'm using a red one for the Alltek Lamp Driver Board and a blue one for the Alltek Auxiliary Lamp Driver Board. First step is to crimp a connector onto the wire that fits the posts on the Allteks.

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#58 33 days ago

Then route the wire through the original harness to reach the back box door. Soldered some jumper wires to the lamp control line on the back box door, then used a 2-pin Molex connector and attached one piece to the jumper wire and the other piece to wires run through the harness.

Now it looks nice and neat, and the wire harness can be easily removed if/when there's a need to take apart the back box for maintenance/restoration. I'm on the fence about restoring the inside of the back box...it's just a little dirty (unlike the interior of the lower cabinet which was a disaster).

One more piece of maintenance due here a bit later....clip out the original battery and pop in a 5101 NVRAM chip. I want to bring up the machine first and make sure it's working after everything I've done in the last few weeks before doing board work on a working MPU.

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#59 33 days ago

Nice work! I like the way you think! adding a little (blue) personal touch to make it your very own machine... I guess some people won't approve but fine with me, especially because it's well executed. And even if one day someone is not convinced by your blue flip buttons... well it's a 5 minute/5 dollar update to get them back to red Keep posting!

#60 33 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Then route the wire through the original harness to reach the back box door. Soldered some jumper wires to the lamp control line on the back box door, then used a 2-pin Molex connector and attached one piece to the jumper wire and the other piece to wires run through the harness.
Now it looks nice and neat, and the wire harness can be easily removed if/when there's a need to take apart the back box for maintenance/restoration. I'm on the fence about restoring the inside of the back box...it's just a little dirty (unlike the interior of the lower cabinet which was a disaster).
One more piece of maintenance due here a bit later....clip out the original battery and pop in a 5101 NVRAM chip. I want to bring up the machine first and make sure it's working after everything I've done in the last few weeks before doing board work on a working MPU.[quoted image]

I agree with making the game the way you want it. The blue is not a permanent change so why not? I plan on doing the same on one of the next 3 EBD's I have lined up for restoration except I'm doing gold powder coat to match the gold on the cab. It will be mostly the inside of the cab, coin box, inner plate on coin door, coin return basket, lock down receiver, transformer plate, pf prop rod, vent screen between head and cab and the rear pf glass support bar.

#61 33 days ago
Quoted from matiou:

Nice work! I like the way you think! adding a little (blue) personal touch to make it your very own machine... I guess some people won't approve but fine with me, especially because it's well executed. And even if one day someone is not convinced by your blue flip buttons... well it's a 5 minute/5 dollar update to get them back to red Keep posting!

I didn’t even noticed the blue flipper buttons! Nice. I’ve never liked the red buttons anyway.

#62 32 days ago

I just couldn't wait. I put the back box on, the playfield in, connected everything up, flipped the switch, and prayed there'd be no smoke. I was very pleasantly surprised (more like relieved) - first try and it booted right up into attract mode! After all the trauma I put the playfield and cabinet through (including putting in a new and safer 3-prong power cord, cleaning and painting the transformer, running the lower cabinet wiring harnesses through the dishwasher, and cleaning the playfield harness by hand with a toothbrush and Mean Green), and she fired up like a champ. And all GI and Control lights are working.

I don't have the coin door in so there's no self test or starting a game (or sound without the volume pot on the coin door wired in). I could rig up some jumpers but I really just wanted to see it boot into attract mode for piece of mind.

I rolled a ball at all of the brand new targets several times....the all drop nicely and reset properly to the starting position upon a new game.

I am disappointed in one thing, tho. 4 inserts did not come out as well as I had hoped. I sanded 800 grit up to 2000 wet sanding on all the inserts and I thought they looked great before I put down the hardtop. Even checked them with a flashlight shining up thru the bottom. Now that they're in with their LEDs, I'm seeing a few with scratches I didn't notice. Oh, well....no use crying about it now. Does it look better? Absolutely. But I'll always see it.

Also...I can't get the blue Super Band flipper "rubber" on the new bats...both are so slick and slippery, they slide/pop right up from the tension. I'm going to pick up some real rubber (still blue) for the flipper bats from Big Daddy Pinball...only place I can find real rubber in colors other than red or black.
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#63 32 days ago

While the rusty legs are still soaking in Evaporust, I'm next turning my attention to the coin door. I'll probably start disassembly this weekend. Shawn at Third Coast Pinball is making me a new coin door wire harness....this one has so many splices taped together I'd rather just start fresh with new.

Apparently, the .062 24-pin Molex female connector has become unobtanium and Shawn can't source any at the moment (I looked myself and couldn't find any in stock anywhere, either). I snipped mine off of my old harness and sent it to him....hopefully he will get a new harness to me in a week or two.

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#64 32 days ago

Pinball Life has colored silicone Perfect Play rubbers. I replaced all my Super Band flipper rubber with Perfect Play. Action is more original.

#65 32 days ago

Arrrgh....ran into an issue or two or three. I couldn't wait to get the coin door reassembled so I rigged up jumpers to start a game and initiate the self test. For the most part, a lot of stuff works (all lights, all flippers, all drop targets, all rollovers tho a few need to be made more sensitive, relays, all yellow standup targets behind the right drop target bank, kicker, and 8-ball saucer).

The problems are neither sling fires on switch contact and none of the pop bumpers fire on switch contact. All coils fire ok in self test as they should, so coils and power are ok. No stuck switches in self test. And the red standup target (Bank Shot) doesn't register/score either, but ohming out the switch itself works when the switch is closed.

I'll dig thru the schematics tonight and see if there's a common thread to start looking at. Meanwhile, I'm open to ideas if you have any!

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#66 31 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

The problems are neither sling fires on switch contact and none of the pop bumpers fire on switch contact.

The pop bumpers and slinshot switches are on the strobe #4 signal wire in the switch matrix (MPU connector J2 pin 5, yellow-red wire), so that might be a place to start.

#67 31 days ago

Yep...that's just where I was. I've got an open wire or cold solder joint between the star rollover and the right sling. I alligator-clipped a jumper wire between the two, and now both slings work and two out of the three pop bumpers now work. Peeling back the onion....I'll fix the broken wire, then focus in on the one failing pop bumper and the Bank Shot standup target.
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#68 31 days ago

Fixing a cold solder joint on the right sling took care both slings and 2 of the 3 pop bumpers. A broken wire on the 3rd pop bumper took care of that one, now all coils are working via switch contacts as they should.

Having trouble dialing in the A and B rollover switches. If the ball travels slowly thru the lane, it usually registers. If the ball goes thru the lane with any kind of speed, it never registers. Sometimes it doesn't register even if I have my finger pressed on the rollover wire.

I'll dig into that, and the Bank Shot red standup target not registering, tomorrow.

#69 31 days ago

Took one more shot at the A/B lane rollovers before going to bed....glad I did. The old business card trick....just dirty contacts. Seems to be working pretty consistently now.

#70 31 days ago

quench - I've turned my attention to the Bank Shot red standup target ("Inline Back Target", brown wire in the schematic). It won't register a hit. Using a MM on the switch leafs, it's making contact ok. Other end of the wire on the MPU (J2, Pin 12) was rewired last year and still looks good and ohms out back to the switch.

With the game started, the target registers/scores if I bypass the diode with a jumper wire.

Bad (open) diode? I haven't pulled it out to test yet. I need to order some diodes anyway.

#71 31 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

quench - I've turned my attention to the Bank Shot red standup target ("Inline Back Target", brown wire in the schematic). It won't register a hit.

With the game started, the target registers/scores if I bypass the diode with a jumper wire.

Bad (open) diode? I haven't pulled it out to test yet. I need to order some diodes anyway.

Yes, if bypassing the switch diode makes the switch work then the diode is very likely open circuit. Test it with your multi-meter in diode mode.
You can borrow a diode from one of the slam switches for the short term till replacements come in.

#72 31 days ago

This Bank Shot target switch is driving me nuts....still can't figure it out. It's the only switch in the game not working (it was working fine before the hardtop install). Here's what I've done so far:

- bypassed the diode on the switch using a jumper wire, and the target scores
- cleaned the switch contacts
- confirmed with my MM that the contact points on the switch leafs provide continuity when touching
- confirmed continuity on the Brown wire to B Rollover Lane switch...no opens
- confirmed continuity on the Brown wire to J2 Pin 12 on the MPU...no opens
- confirmed continuity on the White with Yellow wire to the Tilt switch...no opens
- confirmed continuity on the White with Yellow wire to the 5X In Line Drop Target switch...no opens
- pulled off the diode and tested it out of circuit with my MM. Tests good, but I replaced it anyway (no change in symptoms).

I'm starting to run out of ideas....
Switch Matrix 2 (resized).jpg

#73 30 days ago

OK, this is embarrassing. The Bank Shot target issue is fixed thanx to Quench in another thread. I had the damn thing wired backwards.

I hadn't considered the possibility that it was hooked up backwards because I honestly do not remember disconnecting this target for the hardtop install, and it was working before the top-side teardown. But there's no denying that at some point, I must've disconnected it and put it in backwards! And it's clear as day in the switch matrix schematic....it's amazing how simple logic can go unnoticed even after staring at the circuit diagrams for hours.

DOH!!

#74 28 days ago

Finally took the time today to clip out the original battery and put in NVRAM! Other things I've tweaked over the last couple of days:

- Lots of rollover switches needed adjustment. I was wondering why so many were out of whack, hit and miss with scoring, and then I realized that I took out all the rollover wire forms and cleaned them up in a single batch. When I put them back in, they didn't necessarily go back to their original locations with their original switches so of course they'll be off a bit. Spent about 45 minutes bending and tweaking them into position so now they score 100% of time.

- The star rollover switch was driving me nuts for about an hour or so. It worked fine if the ball was rolling slowly or even medium speed, but fast shots up the alley from the right flipper where not scoring. I played with the leaf switch gap a few times and then started getting concerned that maybe I epoxy'd in the new insert too high, or the plastic star was sitting too high, or something like that (and I didn't want to take it out and start over). Then I noticed the switch itself was missing the capacitor. It worked fine before the tear down but no matter, I put in a cap and sure enough fast shots now register.

- Honest to God, in all the years I've played this machine and all this time I've owned it, I never noticed there are two rebound switches that score 30 points each in the upper right playfield next to the pop bumpers. I didn't notice these until I did the tear down, and I don't think they worked before on my machine (the gap was too far apart on both of them to make contact). Fixed that today - and I'm digging the "new" sound effect it makes when scoring. 30 points is 30 points.

Next up - painting the legs after soaking in EvapoRust for a few days and tackling the coin door.
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#75 28 days ago

Started disassembly of the coin door tonight - lots of rust and gunk, we'll see how well it turns out. Many parts now sitting in EvapoRust with a few non-rusty parts starting their days-long journey in the tumblers.

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#76 28 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Started disassembly of the coin door tonight - lots of rust and gunk, we'll see how well it turns out. Many parts now sitting in EvapoRust with a few non-rusty parts starting their days-long journey in the tumblers.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I would have thought that the additional layer of the hardtop would throw all of the roll over switches out of whack?

I have restored many bally coin doors. Just a hint make sure to separate the parts for the sba slot as they slightly different but not very obvious. For example the sba coin shute doesn't have the small screw at the end by the opening. The slot opening on the bezel is just a hair longer. Small metal piece is flat where the coin falls into the area at the trip wire. The 25 cent will have an off set that won't allow the sba to drop.

#77 28 days ago

so basically there 3 things that prevent an sba coin from being dropped in a 25 cent shute and causing a jam. First is the coin slot. Then the small set screw at the end of the shute. And finally the small metal piece where the coin falls into collection basket. I think but not sure if an sba makes that far it will jam or fall to the side and go into the coin return slot.

#78 28 days ago

When I was a kid playing f2k in the arcade I was able to cheat the sba slot with a nickel and get 6 credits. It took a few tries but usually worked.

1 week later
#79 21 days ago

While finishing up the coin door parts tumble sessions this weekend (and the new coin door wire harness is scheduled for delivery today), I've been working on dialing in some of the inconsistencies I've noticed after putting the system back together like leaf switch gaps, putting caps on the pops and the star rollover insert, dialing in the pop skirt stick properly in the spoons, and fixing a flipper that had no bounce when trying to do a dead flip.

That latter one was interesting - with the right flipper at natural rest, if pushed it toward the apron it gives a little (about 1/16 of an inch). Just enough movement that it kills any bounce of the ball hitting the rubber. At first I thought maybe the shaft was loose (it wasn't), or maybe there was a worn groove in the shaft (there wasn't....brand new flipper bats), or the allen screws had flattened on the end that secures the shaft (there weren't). Turns out...it was the flipper prawl itself. The prawl body has two parts, and the part that secures to the flipper bat moves a 1/16"....not tightly secured to the other part.

Thankfully I had some leftover parts from my Black Jack flipper rebuild earlier this year and not only had a brand new Bally SS prawl (which has a different, better looking bond between the two parts) but it also just happened to be for the right side flipper. Installed it, works great.

Flipper Prawl (resized).jpg
#80 21 days ago

I don't care for the bally linear flipper design - yeah, it lasts forever (in so much that it "flips" so on locations, it was probably great for operators).

For home use I put in the earlier parts style like your Black Jack would have had originally (also the linear flipper parts are crazy expensive). Zippier flip.

#81 21 days ago

And just when things are dialed in, I'm in my 6th or 7th test game when all of sudden the game goes dead except for GI. Reset the game, doesn't boot - 6 flashes only, no 7th flash. MPU showing 7vdc instead of 21.5vdc at the test point. SDB test points ok. Rectifier....F4 blown. Replaced it, game comes up and plays.

About 4 test games into playing, the left sling coil gets stuck on. Immediately shut down, and I find this nice picture below. I've got a spare AN-26-1200 coil that I'll put in this afternoon and keep my fingers crossed that the blown F4 fuse was the first indication that the left sling coil was physically damaged and on its way out.

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#82 21 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

And just when things are dialed in, I'm in my 6th or 7th test game when all of sudden the game goes dead except for GI. Reset the game, doesn't boot - 6 flashes only, no 7th flash. MPU showing 7vdc instead of 21.5vdc at the test point. SDB test points ok. Rectifier....F4 blown. Replaced it, game comes up and plays.
About 4 test games into playing, the left sling coil gets stuck on. Immediately shut down, and I find this nice picture below. I've got a spare AN-26-1200 coil that I'll put in this afternoon and keep my fingers crossed that the blown F4 fuse was the first indication that the left sling coil was physically damaged and on its way out.[quoted image]

No 7th flash when 43v is dead from F4 blowing. If a playfield coil has shorted, the PF fuse should have blown first. Verify that you have a 1 amp slo-blo fuse on PF. Also the broken sling coil doesn't look shorted, only open? Unless it did short from the open diode?

#83 21 days ago

Lovef2k - plot is thickening here. I put in the replacement coil, and it immediately energizes at power on. I jury-rigged up the original coil with the broken tabs with a new diode, and it also immediately energizes at power on. All fuses are ok, including the fuse pack under the playfield (my 1984 looks different....there's a cluster of 3 fuses in the spot where the 1A SB fuse goes under the 1981 playfield).

Where should I go next? Blown transistor on the SDB? The left sling should be Q6 on the SDB....it physically looks ok on the board, but that doesn't mean anything. My SDB is a Rottendog BPS022 but I think the Q, R, CR, etc. numbers are the same/line up with the original Bally SDB.

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#84 21 days ago

Shorted transistor that drives that coil. One of them will test different from the others.

#85 21 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Lovef2k - plot is thickening here. I put in the replacement coil, and it immediately energizes at power on. I jury-rigged up the original coil with the broken tabs with a new diode, and it also immediately energizes at power on. All fuses are ok, including the fuse pack under the playfield (my 1984 looks different....there's a cluster of 3 fuses in the spot where the 1A SB fuse goes under the 1981 playfield).
Where should I go next? Blown transistor on the SDB? The left sling should be Q6 on the SDB....it physically looks ok on the board, but that doesn't mean anything. My SDB is a Rottendog BPS022 but I think the Q, R, CR, etc. numbers are the same/line up with the original Bally SDB.[quoted image]

Sorry for the slow reply, I was painting. A shorted transistor as mentioned above will cause the coil to lock on. Yes the RD numbers should be the same. I never had the 3 fuse version EBD, what are they for?

#86 21 days ago

I don't have the right part number transistors on hand to try to fix the Rottendog SDB right now, but I just remembered I have a spare Alltek SDB. I popped it in with the new coil, everything works, and all is well again until the next glitch.

Quoted from Lovef2k:

I never had the 3 fuse version EBD, what are they for?

I don't know! I can't find them in any of the diagrams/schematics I have. I got my '84 manual from the IPDB but all the schematics in it are dated 1981, same as the '81 manual. At first I thought maybe mine was boogered up by a previous owner, but a Google search produced some pictures of the undersides of other 1984 playfields and they have the 3 fuse thing as well. Maybe I'll post a question to the 1984 EBD club thread.

#87 20 days ago

Finished tumbling the coin door parts today - looking forward to reassembling this over the next few days.

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#88 16 days ago

Coin door is done. It's not going to win any restoration awards, but it looks 100% better, no wire hacks, and it's 100% functional.

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#89 15 days ago

Looks great!

#90 15 days ago

Great job! I like your before/after pics!

#91 15 days ago

Mathazar, do you plan to keep this machine or sell it? If selling, do you have a rough idea what you would be asking for it?

#92 15 days ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

Mathazar, do you plan to keep this machine or sell it? If selling, do you have a rough idea what you would be asking for it?

This machine is a keeper for me which is why I was comfortable in doing some of the color customization I did in the cabinet interior.

#93 12 days ago

Finally took care of something that had been bugging me since the day I got this pin a couple years ago. A previous owner had soldered the power wire for the drop target light board directly to the PCB after the connector housing broke/burned off for that pin. Probably an on-site field fix from back in the day to keep the machine making money. I don't care much for IDC connectors so I just replaced it with a Molex connector.

I'm in the home stretch here - should finish this up this week. In a couple of days my latest care package from Marco's will arrive - among other things for other pins, I picked up some new leaf switches for the EBD Slings. The original switches are like wavy noodles from hundreds of adjustments over 36 years and I can't dial them in the way I want them. Either they're machine-gunning or they're not scoring consistently...there seems to be no happy medium so I said screw it and I sprung for the ~$30 to restart with new, fresh, and straight set of 4 leaf switches!

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#94 12 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Finally took care of something that had been bugging me since the day I got this pin a couple years ago. A previous owner had soldered the power wire for the drop target light board directly to the PCB after the connector housing broke/burned off for that pin. Probably an on-site field fix from back in the day to keep the machine making money. I don't care much for IDC connectors so I just replaced it with a Molex connector.
I'm in the home stretch here - should finish this up this week. In a couple of days my latest care package from Marco's will arrive - among other things for other pins, I picked up some new leaf switches for the EBD Slings. The original switches are like wavy noodles from hundreds of adjustments over 36 years and I can't dial them in the way I want them. Either they're machine-gunning or they're not scoring consistently...there seems to be no happy medium so I said screw it and I sprung for the ~$30 to restart with new, fresh, and straight set of 4 leaf switches!
[quoted image][quoted image]

Good job! IDC connectors are the worst. On the 3 EBD restores that I complete, I replaced all connectors in the game to Molex. It adds hours of work but it's worth it. The last EBD I did in 2018, I called the guy that bought to see how the game was doing a year later and the game hasn't missed a beat!

Where did you find Sling switches? I usually rebuild the stacks with new blades from PBR. I still get the machine gunning even with new blades. An old pin head told me to stretch the rubbers on the slings and it seems to help.

#95 12 days ago

Oops
.
EBD_PlayfieldBoardLamps1.jpg

#96 12 days ago

Nice eye! I did fix that but should've taken a new photo.

#97 12 days ago

quench - here's the photo I should've posted.

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#98 12 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

here's the photo I should've posted.

Much better - I was going to say something about that black-wire being pulled tight but looks like you dealt with it
BTW, carefully inspect the soldering on the pin headers on that lamp board. I can't see any issues but the solder joints can fracture/crack from vibration.

#99 11 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Where did you find Sling switches? I usually rebuild the stacks with new blades from PBR. I still get the machine gunning even with new blades. An old pin head told me to stretch the rubbers on the slings and it seems to help.

I got some generic sling switches from Marco's: https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/SW-1A-120. Received them today and I put them in...work great, no more machine gunning, and scoring is consistent. Nice and shiny (and straight!), too. The blade stack isn't in the same order as the originals but I used them as-is and just wired them up as they should be. I also used insulated wire to daisy-chain the pairs instead of bare wire like the originals because the position of the lugs on the new blades bring the daisy-chain wires pretty close to the coil assembly and I didn't want the bare wire to come in contact with it.

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