(Topic ID: 194420)

hard or easy? ANGLE (and not only)

By Luppin

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 9 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by SUPERBEE
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    #1 6 years ago

    INTRO:
    BSD, my first machine and still love it a lot! The simple rules mixed with a very challenging gameplay and the beautiful gothic romantic atmospheres, the perfect music and sound effects, makes it one of the very best.
    I experimented a lot with this machine, in terms of setup. I tried all sort of adjustments over the years. So here are my conclusions:

    In the beginning I thought the machine was too brutal, so I removed lightning flippers for normal ones. Quite a big change, now the game was more enjoyable: I started to achieve more goals and have more fun, and score big sometimes.
    I then reduced the sensitivity of the slingshots: that also helped a lot with the ball being much more controllable and stoppable on the flippers, keeping the gameplay more under control.
    Still, I was far away from the top scores I read here on the records page. So I decided to reduce the ANGLE around 5 degrees and that definitely was the most important move! Suddenly I started achieving triple jackpots quite often, jackpots all over the place, sometimes even reaching the max (480/300 millions) and my scores grew very much. I played like that for months, until.... I turned the machine over! Around 14 billions or something.. most games lasted forever, very often into few billions. in the end I often started to play the first ball and then.. switch off the machine, bored. The interest was gone. BSD became almost similar to many other easy games out there. No good.

    So, in the end, I am back from where I started. Lightning flippers are back, the angle is as recommended around 6.7. I still quite like having the slingshots not too sensitive though. Now achieving a triple jackpot is a real challenge, it happens very rarely. The adrenaline is pumping again in those moments. Big jackpots? Cant see them in a while..
    But THIS is BSD! BSD is a very tough game. As a beginner or intermediate player is needed to reduce the default difficulty. But when you are an advanced player, standard (or near standard) setup is fine.

    THE POINT:
    We often discuss how hard or easy a game is. I understand that those discussions are relative to the default setup (or at least they should, because I think that many disagreements depends on different setups). But anyway I think in general the power of adjusting the setup of a pinball is usually immensely undervalued or even completely forgotten. It's possible to turn an easy game into a bitch or an hard game into an easy one (as in this case). Maybe it depends from commercial reasons: better to push people to buy a new "harder" or "easier" game, before the owner uses his brain and adjust the lovely machines he already owns first. Having said that, it' nice and fun to change lineup of course! But I think people should play around more with their machines before looking for something different: just play around with the angle and you'll have new games instantly! I heard quite a few people saying they sold a machine because they did not like it. I asked: "did you try changing the angle?" the answer is always: "no". Incredible.

    #3 6 years ago

    What was the question?

    #4 6 years ago

    Agree that changing the playfield angle can make a huge difference in game play and many people have no idea.

    #5 6 years ago

    Angle is determine optimally by the production era of the machine, and operator/owner choice, not game title design.

    3-3.5 degrees - wood rail
    4-4.5 degrees - most EM
    4.5-5.5 degrees - most early SS
    5.5-6.5 degrees - late SS
    6.5-7.5 degrees - modern

    There are some exceptions based on cabinet designs which affect the playfield angle. Extreme deviations either make the games unfun, or the ball excessively "floaty".

    For example my Fireball (Bally, 1972) is set at 4.5 degrees due to the spinner, but my BSD is set at 6 degrees due to use of lightning flippers, if I used regular flippers the angle would be increased to 6.5 degrees.

    #6 6 years ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    Angle is determine optimally by the production era of the machine, and operator/owner choice, not game title design.
    3-3.5 degrees - wood rail
    4-4.5 degrees - most EM
    4.5-5.5 degrees - most early SS
    5.5-6.5 degrees - late SS
    6.5-7.5 degrees - modern
    There are some exceptions based on cabinet designs which affect the playfield angle. Extreme deviations either make the games unfun, or the ball excessively "floaty".
    For example my Fireball (Bally, 1972) is set at 4.5 degrees due to the spinner, but my BSD is set at 6 degrees due to use of lightning flippers, if I used regular flippers the angle would be increased to 6.5 degrees.

    I can' t understand your reasoning. You say it depends from production era But also owner choice. This is contradictory. In your White Water review I read you set it at 11 degrees...

    For me its up to owner's taste really.. Then of course on average certain generation of pinball machines play - on average - better at a steeper angle than others.

    #7 6 years ago
    Quoted from Luppin:

    I can' t understand your reasoning. You say it depends from production era But also owner choice. This is contradictory. In your White Water review I read you set it at 11 degrees...
    For me its up to owner's taste really.. Then of course on average certain generation of pinball machines play - on average - better at a steeper angle than others.

    There is no contradiction if you understand the context.
    The design benchmarks are used as a starting guage, which will be referenced by future readers of this thread.
    I provided the actual values that were used during the periods, because many people do not understand what they were and generally set them too low or high.
    Alternately, some fail to properly level a game side to side which is just as important, as it effects shots and outlanes.
    A person should not try to apply angles for early SS games on wood rails.

    The reason this is done is due to strength designs of the primary flipper coils used and the feature sets on the playfield themselves.

    Sometimes I play around with games to see what happens, as a joke, or for added challenge.
    That does not mean I keep the games that way permanently.
    This includes Whitewater, which is presently set at 6.5 degrees.
    Another game I did playfield angle testing was EBD which was set all the way to 10 degrees, and then backed down to 5.5 degrees.
    However, the gameplay becomes untenable.

    BSD was originally designed at 6 degrees, lightning or standard flippers.

    Something to consider is just use a Power ball(s) for games that use no magnets.
    This increases speed by roughly 20%.
    That of course does not work in games such as BSD.

    #8 6 years ago

    Ok, I see your point.

    According to my testing one or two degrees already makes a big difference. So the ranges you provided for different generations of pinball machines (I would add + or - 0,5 degrees) provide a perfect space for adjdustments for personal tastes, respecting at the same time the original setup that designers had in mind.

    Still, I repeat my idea: play around with + or - 1 degree (from the recommended/standard angle) and you will be impressed on the results. The game changes quite a lot.

    #9 6 years ago
    Quoted from Luppin:

    Still, I repeat my idea: play around with + or - 1 degree (from the recommended/standard angle) and you will be impressed on the results. The game changes quite a lot.

    I agree 100 percent !!

    Reply

    Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

    Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

    Donate to Pinside

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


    This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hard-or-easy-angle-and-not-only and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

    Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.