Like most things, I see both sides of this coin, and I don't think we know enough to judge either one...

Bowen is a great player, but do any of us know how good he is at writing rules? I honestly don't know where Bowen ended and Eric began with R&M rules. I think Bowen was always "contributor" to rules, not the sole/primary rules guy, but I could be wrong. To me his involvement would definitely help HWN/UM as tournament games, but I honestly don't know if he himself is responsible for making fun rules the way we think of Lyman, Elwin, etc.

That said, to suggest that HWN/UM will turn out amazing because Spooky will pour their heart into it doesn't make sense either. Sure they're passionate, but are the current rules guys any good at it? For better or worse, we don't know. If you hired me as your art director, I could try harder than anyone in the world, and operate every moment with passion out the ass, but it doesn't mean I could will the game into looking better than a kindergartener. That's not where my talents are, and we don't know yet whether Spooky's talents are in the rules dept. now either.

To suggest that this game has to be good because it's the same company that made R&M is like saying Munsters and <insert Elwin game> have to both be amazing because Stern made them both. Same company, different employees, different skills, different results.

Are concern and questions appropriate? Yes
Do I wish Bowen were still involved? Yes
Are people over-reacting by dumping their games upon the Bowen news? Absolutely

As much as everything with Spooky code feels like amateur hour at the moment (bricking machines, video-clip-gate, "Bowen consulting on rules" but not really, etc.) you need to settle in for the long haul on any Spooky game before you know where you'll land. There's enough red flags with the personnel on this one to suggest it's more likely to end up like RZ than R&M, but I'm not pushing the panic button yet, and nobody else should be either. Guarded optimism or hopeful concern would make sense, but we all know Pinside doesn't operate like that. So I guess that means the sky is falling.

That's not really what he's talking about. I own, and still really like RZ (probably mostly because I like RZ music and LOVE me some Capt. Spaulding) but the promises made on that game versus what was delivered are a shitshow. I've bought 5 Spooky games to date, so I'm obviously not a hater, but the blind Spooky luv people have confounds me. This is the HWN owners thread, so I don't want to dig into all the details here, but from RZ abandoned code / bait-and-switch apron mod, to people needing to re-drill ball guides on R&M, Spooky's track-record isn't all rosy. I applaud their transparency, and the "awe-shucks, we didn't know better" certainly buys some good will, but at some point all vendors selling $9K+ games need to be held to the same standard.

I had a "catastrophic" issue with my R&M machine that Spooky dealt with as well as they possibly could have, without hesitation. Their service and commitment to the customer is amazing. But at some point the quality of the product needs to be judged over-and-above their ability to rectify rookie mistakes.

I'm still here supporting Spooky with my wallet, but I'm not willing to turn a blind eye to their issues the way a lot of Spooky fanatics seem to be.

All that said, I'm looking forward to getting my HWN (and UM) to test this bitch out for myself. I hope they both turn out great!

Are you a fan of both themes, or do you only have UM because you backed into one through the raffle?

I'm a fan of both themes and actually bought both, because I didn't know which I'd rather have. I thought they might pull a R&M and I didn't want to pay a premium after launch if I picked the "wrong" one for me. Little did I know I could pick up either/both for steep discounts.

Anyway, do you/did you have plans to keep both, or are you just riding them out to see which one you like better after they mature? Do you like HWN so much more because you're a fan of it and not UM, or are the games in that different of a place right now?

I know I won't be keeping both, but I figure I can play them both and see which one grabs me after they develop a bit. In the meantime, hopefully they'll rebound in price before I have to unload one.

Wait...this isn't just trying to be funny?

Well, to all the people who said the 3 Michaels on the playfield looked stupid...touché...now there's 4. LOL

First time a ball hits each lifter it auto-plunges a new ball instead of using the lifter. Next time a ball enters the subway on its way to the lifter, it starts the "staged" effect.

What type of rubbers does HWN use? I typically replace all the cheap black rubbers that come on a new game with clear PL/Titans to avoid the additional black "dust" in the game. Is Spooky using decent silicon rubber to where I don't need to do this, or should I still swap them all out?

My concern here is that even the promised rules updates sound simplistic and shallow. Not necessarily easy per se, but the code doesn't have a lot of nuance.

I picked up a new game today (DP Prem), and while I was at the guy's house, he had me play a game of IMDN Prem. I had never played a Prem before, and I hate Maiden music, but this game was awesome! There is so much going on in parallel, and there are multiple ways to attack the game. Even if you are just an average player, you could choose your path through the game (focus on modes, or the [whatever it's called] multiball, or the Power cards, or whatever). In one game, it drew me in. I could see the game has legs, and could last in a collection because the path wasn't so linear.

Moving over to HWN/UM, the code is so barren by comparison. Adding another mode, or a mini-wizard ultimately doesn't change a whole lot about the experience. It's just such a rudimentary take on a ruleset.

I really like the themes of both HWN and UM, and ordered both games () with the intention of keeping the one that resonated with me more. I don't *hate* them, but I'm definitely not connecting the way I hoped, and I'm not sure the expressed rules direction will fundamentally change my feeling. When I first ordered them, I feared I wouldn't be able to decide which game to get rid of. Now I'm far more concerned whether I'll have any desire to keep either.

On the flip side - I DO *hate* Maiden music, and yet IMDN Prem connected with me in one game 10X more than HWN or UM have since I've owned them.

I REALLY want to be wrong here, and I kinda don't have a choice but to ride things out. Hopefully the game(s) turn around, or they at least level off in value so as to not lose my ass x2. Unfortunately, I'm feeling like a re-imagining of the rule theory is needed.

HWN follows a movie storyline, so this seems potentially harder to do. But UM is wide open. Similar to how GZ has tons of parallel variety (shocker - Elwin) UM has a theme that could support the same. I'm not expecting the impossible here (Spooky code rivaling Elwin), but when the price of the games are the same, I'm at least hoping to be in the same ballpark. Unfortunately I'm not even sure if these games are playing the same sport.

Any advice for adjusting the top upper playfield? I have a HWN and UM sitting next to each other and the upper plays completely different on the 2 games. I can pretty easily complete the pretzel shot on HWN, but it just doesn't work at all on UM. The ball also takes a different initial trajectory in each game when it first gets up to the playfield, making getting control of the ball much easier on one game than the other.

I would assume the uppers should play pretty consistent across games, but mine are nowhere close to each other, and I'm not really sure how to go about tweaking stuff up there.

Oof...couldn't disagree with this more. The music is kick ass, but fake Lumis is borderline cringe-worthy.

I guess. I'm a fan of the movies and have always loved his character. The voice feels way off, which is what grates on me. Kinda like most Americans trying to do a British accent or anybody's poor Arnold impression.

My wife doesn't know squat about the movies, and had no idea it was even an impression. Without me ever saying anything, she went on and on about how annoying he is. Now, if we play the game, she invariably repeats "follow the trail of blood" (which he seems to say ALL the time) over and over in a bad impression of the bad Loomis impression.

I think the playfield layout is fine, the rules can obviously improve, but bad-Loomis will always end up being a major deterrent/distraction for me. For this reason alone, I'm more hopeful about UM.

I'm glad you all like him.

I'm not sure if I've EVER made the scoop on a direct shot. The only way it goes into the scoop is rebounding off something else, so I'm ALWAYS shooting for middle playfield to get to the scoop. It sucks, but this is the worst scoop I've ever seen.

Any, and I mean ANY direct shot to the scoop clangs off the hood and rebounds out. Left flipper, right flipper, on the fly, trapped...it doesn't matter.

I have HWN and UM sitting next to each other, and frankly it's almost identical on both games. There are a lot of things that play surprisingly different between the 2 games (geometry-wise) but the accessibility of the scoop is pretty much non-existent on both games. Really takes away from the experience.

I have them sitting next to each other in my basement. I like both themes. Halloween (the movie) is awesome, and I love horror. I watched Ultraman some as a kid, and I love the rubber suit monster thing too. I also want Godzilla Premium.

For perspective, if each theme was done in the best conceivable way, I would almost certainly prefer Halloween. As it stands with these 2 games, I like almost everything about UM better than HWN. On so many levels, I feel the execution is better on UM.

I know everyone here is going to disagree with me, but HWN the movie is scary and stressful in a way that the game just doesn't convey. I'm not saying the mood in the game is bad, it just doesn't come close to capturing the essence of a scary movie for me. It's more "a game about a scary movie" than a game that is "scary" in it's own right. Horror needs to convey stress and anxiety. I don't feel that come across in the game, and that translates into a significant distinction to me.

UM on the other hand, while it has its share of flaws as well, I find much more enjoyable. I think the modes, even when they are the same rules, are better executed than HWN. Regarding teh mode that's different, Dada is WAY better than Stalker. While I don't like the current console interface, I hear that is changing, and the full screen UM videos are better than the footage or the animations in HWN.

I love both of the iconic Halloween movie themes, so HWN has that going for it. And the Fear the Reaper multiball is better than the UM counterpart.

I'm holding both games until the code is mature / complete, but I'm about 90% confident if I keep one of them, it will be UM, and that's even with a Godzilla Prem in the house as well.

YMMV

While I like horror movies, I don't actually get scared by them. However, when I play a horror video game, I piss myself. They draw you into the role of the vulnerable character. You feel fragile and on edge all the time.

If I use video games as a loose analogy, I'm not sure I would say anyone has done horror all that well in pinball. Even a watered down version. That said, I think TWD (Cleland more than stock) and BSD have a more horror movie vibe to them than HWN, but even those don't really put you in the role of the character. It's been so long since I played Freddy that I don't remember the objectives, but I were to guess, the old Gottlieb/Premier system probably doesn't exactly draw you into the world.

I was hoping for something more along the lines of how JP2 handles you as the central character, but in horror form. To me, you should have 100% been Laurie (or another babysitter). Modes should be about escaping and collecting weapons to defend yourself. Hurry-ups, specific combo requirements to "hide" and also collect things to fend off Michael (coat hanger - LOL).

If this was F13, then I would say you should 100% be Jason, killing people as the main goal. The fact that HWN switches perspectives being Laurie/victim and Michael is a missed opportunity in my opinion, and doesn't allow you to assume any character.

Juxtapose this with UM, you are always "helping" Ultraman. Your role against the Kaiju is consistent. That's just one example of why I feel UM was executed better.

Anyway, enough of this. I'm not bashing HWN, so I don't want to rant about how I think it should be different. Lots of people in this group like/love it and that's great. I just understand why there are even more people that don't.

Oh, I did tell Gerry that they should do a horror themed game. With their playfield screen, they could literally bake jump-scares into the gameplay at various points, which could be cool. Since they're all engineers over there, and have made some really cool and intricate mechs, I thought SAW would be a great theme for them. Make a bunch of "mousetrap-like" mechs as traps that you have to escape from. A heavy hurry-up slant with timers like in the movies, etc. I'd buy it.

Anyway, I digress...

In general, I don't believe in Butter, so take my response with a grain. My reasoning is that with Spooky cabinets, you're comparing awesome with amazing, for a $1K difference. If the decal version kinda sucked, that would be one thing. Or, if Butter had different/better art, then I might see it. But the stock decals already look so nice, Butter seems incredibly frivolous (and I'm someone who powder coats and does other purely cosmetic things to games).

On top of that, I'd really think twice about investing more than you have to on HWN or UM. If it's a keeper for you, then do what you want. If you think you'll be to reselling at some point, I wouldn't touch Butter. In general, you don't really get your money back on Butter, and with the state of these 2 Spooky releases, who knows where the future game value will land. I'm personally assuming the value will rise to the point that people who held games aren't taking a loss, but that's speculation against all the current evidence.

So, why take a loss on the upgrade in addition to a potential loss on the game? I'd stay decal and enjoy the game for what it is. The artwork still looks amazing and you won't be overcommitted on speculation regarding the future value.

I have well under 100 plays on my HWN and it's already showing a dark spot on the lock bar.

There's literally nothing anyone could possibly say to justify that by any definition. And no, buying spares is not an acceptable solution.

Realistically what precautions do I need to take to administer the 2K clear? I bought a can, but I don't have professional protective gear, and I've seen several people on here talking about how corrosive this stuff is.

I want to protect the powder coat, but not at the expense of my eyes/lungs. So...recognizing that any gear I need to buy will likely be one-use-only, what do I need to do this safely?

God I've been waiting for someone to agree with me about this. I literally don't understand everyone who says this game draws you into the experience. It *could* have done that with better use of the Halloween music. But UnPleasance dominates the audio. My wife ridicules this game strictly because of the terrible voice. And if that wasn't enough, "follow the trail of blood" all the time, and the cheesy lines really feel out of place "...someone must have given him lessons." UGH! Cringe-worthy!

I also agree with you completely about Ultraman. I love the audio in that game.

This next point isn't about the audio, but your role in the story is a hot mess too, which to me eliminates being drawn in. Sometimes you're Michael, sometimes you're running from Michael. To me this is a strange (and poor) design decision. In Ultraman, you're always aiding UM. You can get drawn in because you know your role in the story.

If you were only Michael, the game could focus on killing people and trying to amass the largest body count. I could get into this. If you were Laurie or another "victim" the game would be more tense, and you would spend the whole game running from Michael or trying to sneak attack him. This would have been the smarter choice in my opinion. That would have drawn you in, and if the 2 main Halloween songs dominated the audio (instead of UnPleasance) it could have been a nail-bitter.

I'm a fan of both themes, and currently own both games. If I had to pick the theme I like better, it would be Halloween. I'm a HUGE horror movie fan. Before I bought the games, I was sure Halloween would be the one I would keep. Now it's 100% the other direction. I'll keep Halloween long enough to see it through the code development, and hope the value rises to where I don't take a bath (like people are now). But I can't imagine keeping this game. Ultraman however, I have no plans of that game leaving anytime soon.

It baffles me that there are so few of us that feel this way!

I have HWN and UM side-by-side. The resolution/quality of the clips in UM are far better quality than HWN. Since there isn't the same pixilation issue in UM, I'm assuming the HWN issue has nothing to do with the hardware.

I hope they do, but they also said they were going to add R&M adventures from future seasons and that never happened. Going way back, they also promised "final" updates to games like RZ, which never happened.

Just sayin'...

Sounds like most of the "hugeness" of this update has to do with backend stuff to make future updates easier. While that is significant and should pay dividends down the line, it sounds like from a player perspective this update is mostly UI and some movie clips. I don't see much gameplay related.

I'm starting to think the gameplay mainly is what it is, and that future updates won't be transformational, but more a few nice-to-haves here and there. Hope I'm wrong.

If this is true that he deserves the lion's share of the credit, then it confirms most of my concerns over Fawzma having been the lead coder again. What's been going on the last 4 months?

Anyway, not trying to shit on anyone, but I'm really confident the new guy will open the door to bigger and better things than were possible with the old development resources.

win-win? LOL

Can I get 2 of these? HWN and UM...

I think Sanitarium can functionally stay the way it, because at least you have to make a purposeful shot to start it. The problem with House is that it starts without you wanting it to by doing something else (hitting one of the main shots). There really needs to be a way to start it purposely versus just by playing other modes.

Not saying this is the best option, but if "Unlock House" was a 1 blood item in the shop, then you could unlock it when you wanted to go for it, but not slip into it while trying to accomplish other things. Something like this would seem to solve everyone's problem.

And I really hope all of those old animations go. Sanitarium is awful, but so are the ones with the still image and the floating hand/face/whatever on top of them. The new animations are cool, and the original animations that are more of the Ken Burns style look cool too. Just get rid of all the floaters please.