I'll say again that the change I want to see most is with how the House and Sanitarium modes stack with other modes. The House mode especially is too easy to start and the way that the animations, UI and audio from those modes overrule any pumpkin modes or other things you are progressing through in the game is a drag. Stacking bugs aside, at least just bump these modes to the background and only have their animations and audio play when there aren't other modes running. Really there are a number of ways to potentially handle it better. This would reduce the use of that Sanitarium animation that everyone hates too. Maybe this isn't as big of an issue for people who can't make that center ramp shot consistently, but for me it sucks getting into House multiple times per game and hearing the same 4 note tune play for most of the game, while I can't hear or see anything related to the other modes I am going through.

can we have #7 for Ultraman as well?

You mean the current mode stays on and the new mode gets pushed to the back? Stacking modes always is kind of the same issue in all games, one mode takes over essentially while one runs in the background. The main PF modes are considered the main modes in the game while pumpkin modes are kind of the secondary ones. So not sure if going the other way around really changes much cause then you got modes that don't go away, which are what pumpkin modes are as all but one of them has a timer, while main pf modes do have timers usually or end states that don't involve ball drains.

I'm saying that house and sanitarium get pushed to the back when there is a stack, period. They are only 2 modes, but I am almost always in one of them. It's becoming 'House Mode - The Game' for me, and honestly it's not even that fun of a mode aside from the pretzel shot. It usually involves several trips back up to the top playfield to complete it. It doesn't stack well with other modes. And when it does end, I often find myself back in it again before long... pretty much every ball unless I can get the super jackpot. You need that ramp shot for lots of things.

There are a lot more pumpkin modes to mix things up when they are displaying properly. It seems to me that at least a handful of them have timers, but I'd be fine with having all of them on timers if that's not already the case. Most modes in any other game can time out, so nothing unusual about that. I guess I am just getting tired of hearing and seeing the same mode so frequently, no matter how many pumpkin modes or other modes get added to the game.

I think Sanitarium can functionally stay the way it, because at least you have to make a purposeful shot to start it. The problem with House is that it starts without you wanting it to by doing something else (hitting one of the main shots). There really needs to be a way to start it purposely versus just by playing other modes.

Not saying this is the best option, but if "Unlock House" was a 1 blood item in the shop, then you could unlock it when you wanted to go for it, but not slip into it while trying to accomplish other things. Something like this would seem to solve everyone's problem.

And I really hope all of those old animations go. Sanitarium is awful, but so are the ones with the still image and the floating hand/face/whatever on top of them. The new animations are cool, and the original animations that are more of the Ken Burns style look cool too. Just get rid of all the floaters please.

Yes, exactly. You can't avoid starting House mode with the current setup. Having the mode start a different way could also help.

Like I said, there are a number of different ways to potentially help with this issue. Changing the mode display/audio priority was just one relatively simple idea.

I'm fine with house as is, but perhaps just move it's music/and feature to the background yes. Let other modes take over perhaps? The life bars things makes it tougher of course

Maybe if you start a pumpkin mode then house can't start. Meaning the center ramp doesn't count towards house if you are in a mode. Like Stranger Things if you are in a demodog mode.

I'm just happy the halloween theme song that plays during MB is much louder! Thank god that made the cut.

You want to start a MB though when you got a mode going, it's the best way to score, and tossing on double scoring via the MB ball hold, stacking them is very important.

Just not very fun

I've always just thought that starting the mode should just be quicker in general, or the timer to time out the mode quicker also. So your not in it so long, it really helped when they added the timer to sanitarium start so you didn't get stuck in that anymore, but with the healing of Laurie in house mode it can really drag if your not making your shots. You can alter the health drain in the menu, perhaps folks who dont like house mode should try putting Laurie's health drain to it's hardest setting to make the mode go by faster

We should all be encouraging Matt to take on more work - if Spooky is willing to invest as mentioned. I appreciate the transparency with what was listed - who knows maybe they left some surprises.

I too want the sanitarium animation OUT - Ill take literally anything else.

I agree 100% with betelgeuse. I do everything I can not to start house mode. It is way too easy to start and its a huge drag. ALL of the other mades are more exciting than house mode. #killhousemode

Conversely, you could just finish it and you don't have to worry about it again.

Honestly, I think it is the best multiball in the game. Getting Super Jackpots going in a Loop is just fantastic.

Simple solution is House just shouldn't stack with anything else. Only make progress towards starting it and actually start it with no other modes running. Let the other multiballs alone...just keep House all to itself. That will solve the diverter confusion issues, the Bob and Linda issues, and even the "too easy to start House" issues if the shots only count outside of modes. There is nothing wrong with a non-stacking multiball. Lots of games have them. Especially since others can.

I am also a proponent of this.

What do people think about this scenario:

- House and Sanitarium are only “startable” while no modes are running … ie in general play. When House is qualified (ie the drop target is flashing and ready to be hit for the balcony shot) you have 10-20 seconds to get back to the house to complete those two shots (during those 10-20 seconds you can’t start a pumpkin mode - you have to get to the house, with appropriate call-outs and light show to create “hurry up!”) If you fail to drop the target and shoot the balcony … back to general play.

- while you’re playing a pumpkin mode, you can bring in the other two multiballs - hedge and Judith. But House and Sanitarium are locked out during modes.

How’s that scenario sound ?

rd

I love stacking modes so really kind of hate the idea of regressing out modes. The game already has a serious big issue with how modes lock you out of scoring options and force very select shots to score points. Taking away 2 of the games main stackable playfield modes is going to one, slow the game down even more, and two, give you less options for scoring/shots to be active at a time.

You start house and suddenly 95% of the game becomes brick shots if you can't stack it with a pumpkin mode.

Nope, not a fan at all.

The most frustrated experience players I introduce the game to at my place is "what do I do now" cause they are getting nothing and not scoring anything while certain modes are on. Stacking modes opens options, if we start taking that away we are locking players out of alot of gameplay.

Almost all pumpkin modes also have no timer, they go on till you beat them or drain, so another problem there. Bond locked folks out of stacking the regular modes with the main MB modes of the PF, and the player base hated that. And Bond is not a game that locked players out of so many features.

The idea to remove the main PF stacking just seems like going backwards and is going to just hurt the enjoyment of the game more.

Sanitarium is not a problem at all cause it has a specific start condition, and a start timer, all things a player can avoid or simply allow the timer to run down to ignore that mode and prevent it's stack.

If folks don't like house, I think a better option would be having some kind of shot required to CHOOSE to start house mode. Like open the house fine "the house is open" callout or whatever, but to actually start the mode, the player has to hit the drop target for example once, if they don't want to play the house, let the ball drain.

Keep stacking, it's vital to the game, but if anything give player more choice if that is what folks demand. Like Sanitarium, players can actively avoid and choose to not do it. The thing with house some don't like is that you activate it by accident.

Yeah - but “scoring everywhere” isn’t really pinball. IMO.

Stern have made their machines do that. So everyone - no matter what skill level - can just punt the ball around willy nilly and the scoreboard keep rolling over.

“Look how great I am at pinball!!!”

Good “pinball playing” is being able to make shots.

The left orbit is lit. Hit it. Get points. Advance the mode.

Not .. the left orbit is lit. Hit the ramp. Get points.

Yes - you should get some minuscule amount of points for flailing around. Traditionally pinball machines have switches under the side rubbers that award like 10 points a hit. That kept the scoreboard ticking over.

I regards to stacking - outside of Keith JJP games (stack fester) - most new Sterns, you can’t stack everything. You can’t have GZ and Mechgodzilla at the same time, for example. You can have a mode and ONE of them. TWD - can’t have Walker and Prison stacked. You can bring in one with Blood Bath add a ball MB, but not both. Metallica works the same way with Coffin.

Otherwise you end up with a huge mess like when they launched the second code update of XMen 10 years ago and EVERYTHING STACKED ALL THE TIME. What a clusterf**k that was!! Oooohh you should have seen Pinside explode back then lol

rd

I don't like it. At all.

Would not Update to that version if I could help it.

I like playing for House w/ Stacked Modes too much. And I try not to stack any but one mode with Hedge.

This is exactly what I was talking about

Except in every other game you mention, you have other features, scoring, and gameplay going on during any of those modes.

Again the problem with Halloween is that the game literally turns off majority of the switches on the board so only a handful of shots exist until you drain. This is something that really don't see in almost any pinball. I wouldn't be opposed to removing stacking, if the game didn't become a giant brick fest.

You can currently stack, but even then you can get locked into very few shots and a dark and empty playfield of zero scoring. It already happens when you hit the supers on the main playfield modes which means they can't be replayed, so you get a pumpkin mode going which most have no timer, and you can't score anything outside of 2-3 shots to advance.

Essentially the game would need a major overhaul in it's scoring to start locking out the main playfield modes from the pumpkin modes, as these modes are highly restricted.

This isn't something new with sterns either, heck my old data east games I could start a mode and also be collecting features for an extra ball in one source, scoring points other at the pops and spinners which aren't related to the mode, earning in game credits for the store. The BW classics don't have modes locking you out of scoring on majority of the field either.

You know better than to say nonsense like this.

That’s exactly what they’ve done. Gary Stern long said he wanted all levels of player to be able to obtain some satisfaction when they play - his famous line was “put it close to the start button”.

Don’t get me wrong - you aren’t getting the GC just batting the ball around. But you’re getting some good points while you do it.

Play games from the 80s and 90s and compare them to todays Sterns. Big difference.

One good example … on ACNC Charlie got a lot of flak because he used posts at the sides of the ramps. Rather than standups like Stern now use. People are now used to missing shots and getting points. Go back in the ACNC thread, people are literally saying that.

Most of the classic BW games from the 90s - they have posts there. You hit the ramp - or you don’t.

Here’s two from the 90s:

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And here are two of the same designers games at Stern.

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Hey, that’s cool .. it’s just a different design philosophy. And it makes perfect sense.

rd

I played a GZ premium recently, very well polished game but what’s all the fuss about?
Same day played a few other spike 2 top tier games but the most fun I had was playing Rick & Morty, got 22 mil 2nd game and the owner was saying wow never seen that before in this game. Loved it, had plenty of beer though.

This game is unique so you can’t compare to those Stern games, it’s a super sharp shooter shooting super sharp shots kinda game. Try saying that fast
I also wish they could do something with Loomis’s voice, sounds like too much pop from the mic when it was recorded.
Also the washed out video clips are not so good to look at and I have adjusted my screen for the best look.
That sorted with better/finished code would make it sweet.

I can keep saying stuff like this till I'm blue in the face - Sterns are great machines, but if that's all you want to play, you are doing yourself a massive disservice. There are so many other great games out there...

I have 4 of the top sterns at home and beyond any doubt they are indeed absolutely brilliant (DP, IMDN, Elvira, JP). However, hand on heart I would say when I walk into my game room, the first (and often the only) machines I switch on are Oktoberfest, Rick and Morty, Legends of Valhalla Alien and Halloween - all of them totally different to play, equally amazing and just as good (and in some cases arguably better) as any of my Sterns.

I do think Stern have this certain formula for a game just totally nailed down, you can always tell when you are shooting one and they are so tightly designed in general you really cant go wrong. But if you want some originality, variety, and theming that is just next level - some of the other manufacturers really pour their hearts into it.

Exactly. Lots of people now demand points for missing. Better be big points too lest we complain about “low scoring”. Only reason my ACNC left was an unfortunately timed job transfer. With ACNC if you want to eat you have to work. Not a popular concept in in some geographic regions these days.

Yep. If you don’t hit your shots - you get NOTHING.

I can see how that turns some people off. It’s a hard game. Some people don’t like to get a beat down - and that’s understandable. Different strokes etc etc.

rd

Only experienced a few games on Ultraman (getting one in a trade soon), never played Halloween: Is Silver Shamrock represented in any of the game modes?

No, only the first movie is represented in this one.

I agree and said this many times before, Sanitarium and House overpower the rest of the modes I would like to see and experience. Maybe have an option like Batman 66 where you push the start button; you’ll primarily be on pumpkin mode and get to watch it instead of House and Sanitarium. However, I do love collecting those escaping loony toons in Sanitarium mode, lol.

I love Americas most haunted.

Played at my location that I haven't been to in months.

They still have Halloween and fixed the elevator issues it had from last time I was there.

I managed to ruin the game for everyone the rest of the night when the ball got stuck behind the diverter.

I got a couple games in before that happened.

Ball got wild on it at times, sometimes when the ball would get released from the magnet on the balcony instead of dropping onto the habit trail it would dump directly onto the playfield somehomehow.

Seems like a tough game to keep on location since his other 12 or so pinballs play flawless

Still love mine. Interesting to see what location play does to them.

Anyone else ball get stuck here?
I will admit it only starting doing this after I removed this piece to replace some rubbers.
Just not entirely sure why if they screwed back into the exact same holes how it can be off now.

I'm thinking of adding some sort of spacer to raise the wood panel a little to stop the Issue.

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I have seen people get stuck there. They usually take a heat gun and massage the opening a little bigger.

There have been several instances of balls getting stuck there earlier in this thread. Maybe try a search "ball stuck" you'll find how different solutions were shared.

Thank you!

Part of the problem is that piece is just vacuum-formed plastic of some kind and easily deformed, especially if you tighten down the two mounting screws too much.

I got bored one afternoon and decided to make my own replacement "wood deck" out of wood. The drain is a bit wider (and much speedier) and I extended the piece out across the bridge to cover and clean up that area.

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Had a sheet of black foam board at home so I cut me out 2 small pieces and placed them next to each screw hole. Problem solved.

For now.

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It has nothing to do with you either miss the shot or get something, it's again that the game essentially bricks for almost every single shot. pumpkin modes also turn off any secondary features the game has. Like it every game you put as an example, yea you missed, no points, but you aren't forced to keep making that SINGLE shot over and over again to move on, if you want, you can go play elsewhere on the playfield, score points elsewhere, attempt to start a new feature, and so on.

In your idea you are also turning off two entire modes from the game while a pumpkin is going on, so that makes the center ramp useless in majority of the modes, no need for upper playfield, and center playfield on majority of modes wont be used either.

So literally you take a game with a couple shots and say only other scoring now is hedge or judith? Both of which turn off btw once you complete them so that will remove even more gameplay.

To get the good points and strategy of play, you got to make your shots, but pretty much all games since the beginning have kept majority of the playfield active in some manner.

I had this exact issue and posted it here weeks ago, where I had a long game, and was in a pumpkin mode, I had a SINGLE shot to make, and one hedge shot available. Every other thing was turned off cause I accomplished the other modes supers, so they could no longer be triggered.

So in my example which I had running, I had only two exact shots that I could make, every single other shot and feature in the game was turned off. Left orbit one of the harder shots too, so constant misses, and literally 5 minutes of smacking the ball around and missing and scoring 0 points for all my time.

This isn't fun, nor is it something I've ever encountered in pinball. I can't make the shot, other games the mode will time out (they don't in Halloween pumpkin modes), you can go and start a different mode (which you want to remove two of those now?), or you can go play other features and score points elsewhere.

This isn't some magic design of Gary Stern, pinball forever has always kept scoring open, in the pre 80s games there typically was no modes at all and everything granted points at all times, far more freebie points for anything you do in the old days. When they started adding modes, it changed that hitting the ball around scores you points sure, but to really score and make the big points to compete, you had to play and earn it with the modes and making the right shots.

It boggles my mind folks are actually interested in removing shots and options in the game to focus on just running singular modes. As they stand now,it would be a disaster.

Like you said. Only having 1 certain shot almost always is the worst part of this game. It seems like the 2 upper playfields have very little to shoot at all. And nothing ever big scoring on the uppers to create any moments. Halloween has a great unique layout, but anyone could have done the scoring better, than whoever did the rules and scoring.

So do we!
I’ll be curious to see what the general opinion is in 8-10 years. I remember loving BSD and it was not or still isn’t considered an A list title.

Mine doesn’t.

Nope.

You’d add in accompanying shots on the other playfields to add to and enhance the existing modes.

Same as ACNC and other games with upper playfields have.

Making that difficult shot will make your day.

Take off the glass and practice making that shot for 20 mins. Then next time when that scenario comes up, you’ll nail it. It’s a great feeling!

rd

Loosen the screws a couple quarter turns and see if that helps. The ones that mount that plastic.

I love when people complain about a game being a brick fest.

1. Set your game up right

2. Play better.

Great day today at Texas Frightmare Weekend in Irving, Texas. Me and my son met the following cast from the original 1978 Halloween movie and got their autographs on my CE backglass. Nancy Loomis (Annie), PJ Soles (Lynda), Charles Cyphers ( Sgt Brackett), Nick Castle (The Shape - Michael Myers) and best of all, John Carpenter ….no selfie with him because he wanted $100 extra for that

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Yep, I have been playing mine for shooting practice mainly while waiting for the code to finish.
I can hit all shots pretty quickly now, can even backhand the 3rd hedge shot now and again

Tombstone lock/target is the toughest and most risky shot I think on mine, need more practice on that one. Very satisfying hitting it though.

Your game bricks for almost every single shot? 100% you got some leveling or something to do I don’t get that at all.

I get the idea that he means the games other shots “brick” as in “shut down” and dont do anything, not that he cant hit the shots.