(Topic ID: 300250)

Halloween owners thread…He’s Coming Home

By dnapac

1 year ago


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#11351 63 days ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

Software is one thing, every pinball company sucks at software, but from the time my game bricked to the time I got it back up and running (like 5 months), there were still changes happening to the boards. I know, because I have 5 fucked up ones sitting next to each other. That's to be expected, because the pinataur board is a piece of junk, but where does that leave early supporters? What about the upgraded pc vs the old style board I have in mine? I have an outdated halloween pin because I was early in line to support the game. That leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. Say what you want about all the other companies, but when you buy a pin you're getting the same one everyone else got.

I just wanted to take a quick moment to address these two points. The changes discussed were made due to supply chain issues, period. There is nothing defective or outdated with the original upboards. The mini-PCs were the closest replacement to the originals available at the time. Both the upboard and mini-PC, have been, and will continue to be supported. They also should update the same way, just plug in the USB.

It's the same thing with the pinataur. When designing any boards it is best to design them to function with tolerances for slight differences in parts. With the current state of micro-electronics manufacturing having the ability to switch out parts, while maintaining the same functionality, is an important design element. The pinotars from Halloween #1 and Halloween #1250 could be swapped with zero affect on the game.

I'm sorry that you had so many issues with your boards, it sounds like AJ has you sorted out. I suspect that it was a combination of a shorted coil / bad diode and the corresponding transistor. It's possible for either to cause the other to go bad, so unless both are replaced at the same time it can be a frustrating back and fourth.

#11352 63 days ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

I think if people are unsatisfied they need to stop pre-ordering games from spooky until they prove they can actually put out quality hardware (as I said, every company struggles with software) AT LAUNCH. You can't tell me it takes 1000 games to figure out what doesn't work with hardware.

Tell me you don't know how hardware design works without telling me you don't know how hardware design works. Boards go through revisions, it's perfectly normal, hardware changes as well, also perfectly normal. Supply chain issues create reasons to change and adapt on the fly. This isn't unique to Spooky... Literally anything else you buy with electronics in it goes through this...

#11353 63 days ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

Tell me you don't know how hardware design works without telling me you don't know how hardware design works. Boards go through revisions, it's perfectly normal, hardware changes as well, also perfectly normal. Supply chain issues create reasons to change and adapt on the fly. This isn't unique to Spooky... Literally anything else you buy with electronics in it goes through this...

It's all good. His game had issues and that sucks.

#11354 63 days ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

When are you guys going to stop giving Spooky a pass, and stop using the "boutique" label? Do you know how big their staff is now? The Halloween/Ultraman run was 1750 pins. Stern has had smaller runs than that.

When are you going to admit ALL manufacturers have issues. Every. Single. One. I know you don't need me to list 100+ threads from other manufacturers in my reply here to make my point but... Stern, the Stern today, makes more games in 1 week than Spooky does in 1 year... Hell Stern churns out more games in 1 month than Spooky has ever made.

Does that make it "okay" that failures occur? Of course not. Like many have consistently said here, it's not the failure but rather the support. To date, Spooky support remains so far and above anything else I've seen... Stern can take weeks just to acknowledge you exist much less actually help you and replace the defective part and god forbid it's on "backorder" as you may not see it for months. So can we just stop with this BS notion that Stern is some sort of golden child?

#11355 63 days ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

When are you going to admit ALL manufacturers have issues. Every. Single. One. I know you don't need me to list 100+ threads from other manufacturers in my reply here to make my point but... Stern, the Stern today, makes more games in 1 week than Spooky does in 1 year... Hell Stern churns out more games in 1 month than Spooky has ever made.
Does that make it "okay" that failures occur? Of course not. Like many have consistently said here, it's not the failure but rather the support. To date, Spooky support remains so far and above anything else I've seen... Stern can take weeks just to acknowledge you exist much less actually help you and replace the defective part and god forbid it's on "backorder" as you may not see it for months. So can we just stop with this BS notion that Stern is some sort of golden child?

Agreed. If anybody thinks stern doesn’t have annoying issues, I have Rush LE that would like to have a word with you, lol. It’s all good. Play, shit breaks, fix, play some more.

#11356 63 days ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

Tell me you don't know how hardware design works without telling me you don't know how hardware design works. Boards go through revisions, it's perfectly normal, hardware changes as well, also perfectly normal. Supply chain issues create reasons to change and adapt on the fly. This isn't unique to Spooky... Literally anything else you buy with electronics in it goes through this...

You know what's a great way to ensure you don't have to make board revisions during the production run? Sticking with the same platform for more than one game. You know, like how the major pinball companies do it? But, ah yes, this is a "boutique" company, so lets just give them a pass. Stern is no "golden child" as you say, and sure, I've had plenty of issues with NIB sterns...but they have all been relatively minor fixes (comparable, at worst, to fixing the orbit on R&M). The support at spooky IS great, but my machine was completely unplayable for 5 months. I'm not a lone case either, and that's not even to mention things like powdercoating issues. Beyond that, there is cost cutting. The only spooky game with great sound is TNA and they went ahead and for R&M and Halloween removed the ported sub box in the cabinet which made that game sound so good. R&M from the factory with no "user corrections" sounded like a rattly piece of shit. Also, 3d printing is for mod makers and prototyping, why is my 10k+ game full of 3d printed crap that is just NOT durable compared to things like injection molding? I get it, it can be cheaper, but it shows and it will not hold up over time. Hell, they are not even finished nice for 3d prints. Just zero care put into that. No diffusers put on the led strips around halloween, low led count on the strips themselves, etc etc. This game is full of cost cutting and it shows in every single place.

But the art looks good and the theme is nice, so who cares right?

I'm not new to pinball, I fix my machines when they break. I've done full playfield swaps. But when something that should be a simple replacing of a coil and a fuse becomes "replace the entire board, after waiting for a week and paying UPS out the ass", and not just once but multiple times, that is absurd. Why design something in pinball that can't be fixed but has to be replaced? The problem is when you switch to a new platform (and then mid-production run, change it further) that is unproven and untested, you are making your early supporters beta testers which is unacceptable. But, beyond that, thinking long term? How long is Spooky going to have stock in boards that are clearly inferior to any other board made in pinball history? I've gone through 5 of the garbage Pinataur board in less than a year. What's that going to look like over 5-10 years? Is this a freak series of events that nobody else has or will experience?

I don't like to piss and moan about pinball companies often, but this whole experience has really soured Spooky for me.

EDIT: I will acknowledge that supply chain issues with electronics components do exist, and I understand that plays a part in things, but that isn't the part that bothers me, and that should be clear.

#11357 63 days ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

You know what's a great way to ensure you don't have to make board revisions during the production run? Sticking with the same platform for more than one game. You know, like how the major pinball companies do it? But, ah yes, this is a "boutique" company, so lets just give them a pass. Stern is no "golden child" as you say, and sure, I've had plenty of issues with NIB sterns...but they have all been relatively minor fixes (comparable, at worst, to fixing the orbit on R&M). The support at spooky IS great, but my machine was completely unplayable for 5 months. I'm not a lone case either, and that's not even to mention things like powdercoating issues. Beyond that, there is cost cutting. The only spooky game with great sound is TNA and they went ahead and for R&M and Halloween removed the ported sub box in the cabinet which made that game sound so good. R&M from the factory with no "user corrections" sounded like a rattly piece of shit. Also, 3d printing is for mod makers and prototyping, why is my 10k+ game full of 3d printed crap that is just NOT durable compared to things like injection molding? I get it, it can be cheaper, but it shows and it will not hold up over time. Hell, they are not even finished nice for 3d prints. Just zero care put into that. No diffusers put on the led strips around halloween, low led count on the strips themselves, etc etc. This game is full of cost cutting and it shows in every single place.
But the art looks good and the theme is nice, so who cares right?
I'm not new to pinball, I fix my machines when they break. I've done full playfield swaps. But when something that should be a simple replacing of a coil and a fuse becomes "replace the entire board, after waiting for a week and paying UPS out the ass", and not just once but multiple times, that is absurd. Why design something in pinball that can't be fixed but has to be replaced? The problem is when you switch to a new platform (and then mid-production run, change it further) that is unproven and untested, you are making your early supporters beta testers which is unacceptable. But, beyond that, thinking long term? How long is Spooky going to have stock in boards that are clearly inferior to any other board made in pinball history? I've gone through 5 of the garbage Pinataur board in less than a year. What's that going to look like over 5-10 years? Is this a freak series of events that nobody else has or will experience?
I don't like to piss and moan about pinball companies often, but this whole experience has really soured Spooky for me.
EDIT: I will acknowledge that supply chain issues with electronics components do exist, and I understand that plays a part in things, but that isn't the part that bothers me, and that should be clear.

When your Stern Spike 2 board dies, do you fix it, or does Stern send you a new one? Serious question.

#11358 63 days ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

This game is full of cost cutting and it shows in every single place.

Well you're getting way more stuff like a topper, shooter rod handle, real backglass, better speakers, ect. The game isn't barren either, when you say cost cutting I think of two pops firing at once on Bond premium/LE or moving the cabinet switch to the backbox to save $.15 in wire.

#11359 63 days ago
Quoted from manadams:

Well you're getting way more stuff like a topper, shooter rod handle, real backglass, better speakers, ect. The game isn't barren either, when you say cost cutting I think of two pops firing at once on Bond premium/LE or moving the cabinet switch to the backbox to save $.15 in wire.

That's true, and it's part of why I don't hate the game, despite my complaints.

Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

When your Stern Spike 2 board dies, do you fix it, or does Stern send you a new one? Serious question.

That's a valid point, and I can't argue that. Counterpoint: I've never even heard of a single person having a spike 2 board fail. I'm sure it happens, but it's a proven platform. Node boards, lighting boards, etc, 100% those fail, but the main platform? Not often.

#11360 63 days ago

then the 3d printing has the advantage of being easily reproduced, the file already existing. Some also criticize the use of cheap micro servomotors, the advantage is that they are found anywhere between 4 and 20 €/$ depending on the model. where some see faults, I see solutions to sustainably maintain pinball machines. For example Stern no longer repairs and no longer offers spike 1 cards, what happens if your ghostbuster motherboard burns out...?

#11361 63 days ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

That's a valid point, and I can't argue that. Counterpoint: I've never even heard of a single person having a spike 2 board fail. I'm sure it happens, but it's a proven platform. Node boards, lighting boards, etc, 100% those fail, but the main platform? Not often.

I've had node boards fail (kind of a lot), and I still don't have a replacement insert board for my EHOH which has a bad insert. The Spike2 board is based on an open-source design called the "Beagleboard" which is itself continuously being updated. Not that different from a PC in HWN for example, just a different form factor.

#11362 63 days ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

You know what's a great way to ensure you don't have to make board revisions during the production run? Sticking with the same platform for more than one game. You know, like how the major pinball companies do it? But, ah yes, this is a "boutique" company, so lets just give them a pass. Stern is no "golden child" as you say, and sure, I've had plenty of issues with NIB sterns...but they have all been relatively minor fixes (comparable, at worst, to fixing the orbit on R&M). The support at spooky IS great, but my machine was completely unplayable for 5 months. I'm not a lone case either, and that's not even to mention things like powdercoating issues. Beyond that, there is cost cutting. The only spooky game with great sound is TNA and they went ahead and for R&M and Halloween removed the ported sub box in the cabinet which made that game sound so good. R&M from the factory with no "user corrections" sounded like a rattly piece of shit. Also, 3d printing is for mod makers and prototyping, why is my 10k+ game full of 3d printed crap that is just NOT durable compared to things like injection molding? I get it, it can be cheaper, but it shows and it will not hold up over time. Hell, they are not even finished nice for 3d prints. Just zero care put into that. No diffusers put on the led strips around halloween, low led count on the strips themselves, etc etc. This game is full of cost cutting and it shows in every single place.
But the art looks good and the theme is nice, so who cares right?
I'm not new to pinball, I fix my machines when they break. I've done full playfield swaps. But when something that should be a simple replacing of a coil and a fuse becomes "replace the entire board, after waiting for a week and paying UPS out the ass", and not just once but multiple times, that is absurd. Why design something in pinball that can't be fixed but has to be replaced? The problem is when you switch to a new platform (and then mid-production run, change it further) that is unproven and untested, you are making your early supporters beta testers which is unacceptable. But, beyond that, thinking long term? How long is Spooky going to have stock in boards that are clearly inferior to any other board made in pinball history? I've gone through 5 of the garbage Pinataur board in less than a year. What's that going to look like over 5-10 years? Is this a freak series of events that nobody else has or will experience?
I don't like to piss and moan about pinball companies often, but this whole experience has really soured Spooky for me.
EDIT: I will acknowledge that supply chain issues with electronics components do exist, and I understand that plays a part in things, but that isn't the part that bothers me, and that should be clear.

Again... Revisions to boards happen ALL OF THE TIME... Generally speaking manufacturers of things with electronics in them focus on the code base and supportability of any board revisions over the actual revisions themselves. In other words, so long as a separate code base isn't required almost anyone who makes anything electronic will go through multiple revisions of the components, especially boards. The only reason why you even know is because you have had issues and things did need to be replaced, otherwise you'd have no clue these changes occur. This isn't a pinball thing, this is literally anything with electronics in it... Hell on my fridge when the high voltage board went out the original vs new had went through what seemed like a dozen changes just based on board revision numbers and the newest version didn't even look much like the original other than the connector locations.

The rest of your rant is just that, a rant... The 3D printed parts will be fine and it's the future so you'd better get used to it... I for one love the idea I can print a replacement part at home and not have to wait but to each their own...

#11363 63 days ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

That's true, and it's part of why I don't hate the game, despite my complaints.

That's a valid point, and I can't argue that. Counterpoint: I've never even heard of a single person having a spike 2 board fail. I'm sure it happens, but it's a proven platform. Node boards, lighting boards, etc, 100% those fail, but the main platform? Not often.

I've had three... Others have commented they've had them as well. It happens... I'll tell you what sucks though, with Stern it takes literally months to get replacements right now... Shortest replacement was 6 weeks, longest was so long I bought a replacement from Pinball Life just so I could get my game going again while I waited... Spooky hasn't taken longer than 1 week from the time I reported the issue to the time I got the replacement, but that's not a fair comparison which is my point.

Look, I get frustrated too... We all do... I was really pissed when one of my opto's went out on my Halloween, so pissed you should have seen the email I sent, but you know what Spooky let me vent when they didn't have to and then had a replacement out I think it was the next day... They didn't ask for me to get all bent out of shape because I had an issue, and yes I did apologize after the fact, but they helped me quickly regardless. That. Matters.

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#11364 63 days ago

WRT 3d printed parts, am I unaware of spooky making all those stl files available? Does Spooky do that? Will Spooky ever do that?

I get that hardware goes through revisions, but again, my point isn't about the revisions themselves, but i'm just gonna let this hardware discussion die. There's two sides to everything, pros and cons and i'm not going to sit here and try and paint spooky with one big broad brush. I bought the game, I'm unhappy with the quality of parts and hardware, unhappy that I and many others are beta testers for an unfinished cost-cutting product that did not and has not met my desires for a john carpenter pin and unhappy that the code still has a really long way to go to make it feel even close to 1.0.

My point is, stop giving Spooky a pass for poor decisions. And give AJ a raise.

#11365 63 days ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

WRT 3d printed parts, am I unaware of spooky making all those stl files available? Does Spooky do that? Will Spooky ever do that?
I get that hardware goes through revisions, but again, my point isn't about the revisions themselves, but i'm just gonna let this hardware discussion die. There's two sides to everything, pros and cons and i'm not going to sit here and try and paint spooky with one big broad brush. I bought the game, I'm unhappy with the quality of parts and hardware, unhappy that I and many others are beta testers for an unfinished cost-cutting product that did not and has not met my desires for a john carpenter pin and unhappy that the code still has a really long way to go to make it feel even close to 1.0.
My point is, stop giving Spooky a pass for poor decisions. And give AJ a raise.

I am not sure about all spooky games but I don’t see a lot of 3d printing in my ultraman. Most everything was hand sculpted and cast by Matt at Back Alley creations who has made a lot of great sculpts for many manufacturers.

#11366 63 days ago
Quoted from thekaiser82:

I am not sure about all spooky games but I don’t see a lot of 3d printing in my ultraman. Most everything was hand sculpted and cast by Matt at Back Alley creations who has made a lot of great sculpts for many manufacturers.

What's 3D printed besides some/most of the ball lifter parts?

RM

#11367 63 days ago
Quoted from RussMyers:

What's 3D printed besides some/most of the ball lifter parts?
RM

That’s fair. My mind went to sculpts for some reason. Time for more coffee.

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#11368 63 days ago

lack of space is the mother of invention

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#11369 63 days ago
Quoted from Svente69:

lack of space is the mother of invention
[quoted image]

nice! Signed by Nick Castle, director of the Last Starfighter? What's HE have to do with Halloween?

#11370 63 days ago
Quoted from Svente69:

lack of space is the mother of invention
[quoted image]

That's pretty cool. I disconnected my knife as the noise from the motor was a bit loud.

#11371 63 days ago

Here's my update. 4 months of ownership. 258 plays. I have taken the glass off three times. Once because my wife launched an airball into the pumpkin and knocked it off and one time a ball flew and got stuck behind a plastic. The other time I shortened the springs on drops.
I adjusted the amp to turn the sound from a muddled mess to a balanced, crisp, amazing sound.

I'm not discounting the problems some have, but mine has been rock solid. Other than updated code which I know is coming, I couldn't be more impressed with the quality. I loved my Ghostbusters, but this feels 10 times more solid.

Thank you spooky. My machine has lived up to my expectations!

#11372 63 days ago

30 posts since I last checked in - damn I thought the update was here.

Bit weird seeing comments regarding sculpts etc I was only chatting to someone yesterday about how the playfield sculpts and toys on Spooky games are amazing, whereas Stern really do need to up their game in that area. I have Halloween and ACNC sat next to my Sterns and the difference in what is on the playfield is embarrassing. Rick and Morty is a little more sparse and has a bit more of a 3D printed look though that's for sure.

Anyway back to the actual game - had a superb game last night, managed to complete 4 modes and get super jackpots on house and sanitarium multiballs. I find the hedge MB to be the most difficult - the scoops are deceptively hard to hit.

#11373 63 days ago
Quoted from TheClownpuncher:

That's pretty cool. I disconnected my knife as the noise from the motor was a bit loud.

Nick Castle is Halloween

#11374 63 days ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

Here's my update. 4 months of ownership. 258 plays. I have taken the glass off three times. Once because my wife launched an airball into the pumpkin and knocked it off and one time a ball flew and got stuck behind a plastic. The other time I shortened the springs on drops.
I adjusted the amp to turn the sound from a muddled mess to a balanced, crisp, amazing sound.
I'm not discounting the problems some have, but mine has been rock solid. Other than updated code which I know is coming, I couldn't be more impressed with the quality. I loved my Ghostbusters, but this feels 10 times more solid.
Thank you spooky. My machine has lived up to my expectations!

What settings did you change on the amp?

#11375 63 days ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

What settings did you change on the amp?

I turned up the volume on the coin door, then turned down the sub volume on the amp. It is the closest knob on the amp to the front of machine when you reach in there. It is super sensitive and takes a bit of tweaking to get it balanced but what a difference!

Super exclusive ad from the Pinside Marketplace!
#11376 63 days ago
Quoted from RussMyers:

What's 3D printed besides some/most of the ball lifter parts?
RM

The thing that the Michaels sit on, on the servos are 3D printed, and the hinge mechanism of the topper. Those are it besides the subway lifters that I see

#11377 63 days ago
Quoted from Svente69:

Suddenly the game always started with 2 balls.
No more will be added during the game.
Which switch test should I check best?

I believe that happened to me after around 200 games. It was when the machine discovered the 8th ball. And again, shortly after, when it discovered the 9th ball. I took them out when I found them, and the two ball starts ended. Count your balls!

#11378 63 days ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

When your Stern Spike 2 board dies, do you fix it, or does Stern send you a new one? Serious question.

Serious answer: 6 months exactly, 5/31 failure notice to Stern, 11/29 Stern notice boards available and to be shipped. 6 months and probably 10-12 follow up emails.

#11379 63 days ago
Quoted from zebpin61:

With so many posts after yours and being a day behind, unsure if you resolved your lighting issue. When some of my pf LEDs went out I found the culprit lies with the last RGB that's lit. The line out from that RGB was damaged, taking down the LEDs from there.

Got it figured out. The middle drop target light board was the culprit. Upon this small victory I played about 3 games and my goddamn Michael hedge servo 3 went out lol….easy fix, but I’m starting to think this game hates me. Boogeyman def lives inside this particular build lol.

#11380 62 days ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Walking Dead (and Metallica) should be the example for most machines.
However - they both have something this game doesn’t. An obvious (to everyone) thing (or two) to bash away at.
That’s why a bash toy is great. It shows any Joe Blow what to do. Hit me. Hit me more. Lights flash. Sounds come out. Things happen.
Games like HW/UM - things aren’t that obvious.
So a lot more explanation is needed. Via visual cues and audio cues.
The player who is familiar with the rules can double flip and the info disappears.
But I think (personally) that when you step up to a machine for the first time, it should be reasonably clear what you need to do.
That’s why Lyman games were so good. You had that simple layer for the everyday player - then more layers underneath for the more advanced player. But even those layers (like crank it up in Metallica) aren’t beyond the average player.
That’s where a lot of the other rules guys/programmers go wrong IMO. What’s the point in making modes and wizard modes that only 5 people in the world can ever get to? That’s pretty dumb IMO. Turns me off playing the game.
rd

When I was just getting started in the hobby I played a Metallica pro at the Pyramid Scheme in Grand Rapids, and after one game I knew I had to have it. I ordered a NIB pro with the metal speaker panel and all LEDs in early 2018 for $5800 or so, including delivery. I had zero issues out of the box and loved that game so much. It’s pretty much a perfect music pin. Great code, fun metal ramps, awesome bash toy, cool snake lock, in-line drops! (Love them), and terrific art. Plus, anyone can walk up to MET and enjoy it. I only let it leave because I was offered a trade I couldn’t refuse. I’ve been looking for a premium or LE ever since. Still a top 10 pin for me.

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#11381 60 days ago
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#11382 60 days ago

But did AJ get that raise?

#11384 60 days ago

Spooky Facebook

#11385 60 days ago

Spooky. They don’t post announcements here first.

#11386 60 days ago

I don’t have one but it’s public and I have a vpn.

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#11387 60 days ago

Wooohoooo, now…who’s gonna wait for 1.09a haha

Quoted from timtim:

I don’t have one but it’s public and I have a vpn.
[quoted image]

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#11388 60 days ago

That had to be a record for fastest upload to pinside from Facebook!
Really excited for you guys to see the new code. Anyone in the Cincinnati area come hang out with us at Pincinnati!!

#11389 60 days ago
Quoted from SpookyBug:

That had to be a record for fastest upload to pinside from Facebook!
Really excited for you guys to see the new code. Anyone in the Cincinnati area come hang out with us at Pincinnati!!

Any hints on the new code????

#11390 60 days ago
Quoted from timtim:

But did AJ get that raise?

For real though!

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#11391 60 days ago
Quoted from waletboy:

Any hints on the new code????

Those movie clips are gonna be looking much nicer, and there may even be some new ones. Keep an eye out for them

#11392 60 days ago

Still looking to trade my huo GOTG pro for a Halloween if you have one and your interested lmk

#11393 60 days ago

Great news! I'm assuming the 1 week delay is just to get things prepped, maybe there's one or two loose ends. People don't understand how damn complex these releases can get sometimes.

#11394 60 days ago

SpookyBug is this true for Ultraman as well?

#11395 60 days ago
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#11396 60 days ago

Just installed Rocket City Pinball’s custom 3D start button. Love it!

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#11397 60 days ago
Quoted from SpookyBug:

Those movie clips are gonna be looking much nicer, and there may even be some new ones. Keep an eye out for them

Awesome!! Just give me Scooby Doo and I can die a happy man!!

#11398 60 days ago

P

Quoted from BallyKISS1978:

Just installed Rocket City Pinball’s custom 3D start button. Love it!

[quoted image]

I bought one at Expo for mine. I agree looks great!

#11399 60 days ago

Boom!! Excited to see this one....

#11400 60 days ago
Quoted from musketd:

Still looking to trade my huo GOTG pro for a Halloween if you have one and your interested lmk

There is a guy in market place looking to trade.

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