(Topic ID: 261353)

Haggis Pinball defeats dimpling and pooling with sledgehammer test


By FalconPunch

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 111 posts
  • 63 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by DaveH
  • Topic is favorited by 13 Pinsiders

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    There are 111 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
    68
    #1 1 year ago

    Pretty damn impressive

    #2 1 year ago

    good for them. Well done.

    #3 1 year ago

    Love the idea. They should do a test with a worn and beat up ball too. Show a worst case scenario type deal.

    #4 1 year ago

    No real mention of how it plays compared to a traditional clear coated wood PF but I credit them for putting what must have been a ton of time and effort into this. Hopefully it's completely or nearly the same game play as what we're used to and the industry can adapt and fix all the current problems we're seeing from many.

    #5 1 year ago
    Quoted from bobukcat:

    No real mention of how it plays compared to a traditional clear coated wood PF but I credit them for putting what must have been a ton of time and effort into this. Hopefully it's completely or nearly the same game play as what we're used to and the industry can adapt and fix all the current problems we're seeing from many.

    Will most likely play like a well waxed PF, or one with a PF protector.

    #6 1 year ago

    This is great! Do the games that they're building now have this kind of playfield? Or is it more an experimental thing?

    --Luke

    #7 1 year ago

    That rolling test rig is interesting. I'd like to see a rig that uses a flipper to launch the ball so it's skidding and spinning across the surface instead of gently rolling.

    Must be a newer generation plexiglass vs what Bally used for Elektra.

    36
    #8 1 year ago

    Damian deserves a lot of credit, especially as an upstart, for finding what looks to be a damn good cure for the biggest plague of pinball currently. How could you not root for someone like this? I know I do.

    Well done Damian... and Haggis Pinball.

    #9 1 year ago

    It looks like it's essentially a thicker hardtop over a plywood base. No chance of the artwork ever wearing or getting damaged. I like this. I'm sure it plays like a hard top.

    #10 1 year ago
    Quoted from HighNoon:

    This is great! Do the games that they're building now have this kind of playfield? Or is it more an experimental thing?
    --Luke

    My understanding is that even though games have been ordered - they where being held back to make sure all production versions have this new playfield method. So yes, this is for production

    23
    #11 1 year ago

    So a few guys figured this out in less than 18 months with no experience and how long has Stern been in business?

    #12 1 year ago
    Quoted from Viggin900:

    So a few guys figured this out in less than 18 months with no experience and how long has Stern been in business?

    Well the 30th Anniversary book isn't out yet, so probably about 29 years

    12
    #13 1 year ago

    does this mean deeproot doesnt have anything left to show, come march ?

    21
    #15 1 year ago
    Quoted from Viggin900:

    So a few guys figured this out in less than 18 months with no experience and how long has Stern been in business?

    About three months actually

    Truth be told, there's not a lot that is truly new in pinball. There has been various versions of what we've designed, used on pinball machines in the past. We've just taken modern materials, worked with what we thought would be the best and most achievable outcomes, made a couple of enhancements and brought it all together.

    #16 1 year ago
    Quoted from FalconPunch:

    My understanding is that even though games have been ordered - they where being held back to make sure all production versions have this new playfield method. So yes, this is for production

    Yup - all production machines will have this playfield

    #17 1 year ago
    Quoted from RatShack:

    That rolling test rig is interesting. I'd like to see a rig that uses a flipper to launch the ball so it's skidding and spinning across the surface instead of gently rolling.
    Must be a newer generation plexiglass vs what Bally used for Elektra.

    I feel a new test coming up

    #18 1 year ago

    Bravo, Haggis! Impressive work, and it looks like you’ve got one hell of a fun workshop. Cheers to doing it right

    #19 1 year ago

    Hey Haggis, I’m out of the loop but I’m very glad you guys are still trucking along. I really don’t pay attention to most pinball upstarts because it’s always seemed to head the same way...
    So for someone who’s out of the loop.
    What games are you producing, how close are you to cranking out games and how many have you designed?
    Will you be producing them or going through an existing manufacturer?

    14
    #20 1 year ago

    Thanks to Cary for posting the review
    I clarified a couple of points on the YouTube clip, so thought I would add them here as well:

    Hi Cary - thanks for making the video - much appreciated

    Just to clarify a couple of points:
    1. Acrylic layer is 4.5mm (so a little under a 1/4 inch)
    2. The plywood layer is 9mm, so I end up at a standard thickness playfield so standard mechs still fit
    2. The test rig at the time I filmed that was at 504,000 passes (with a small double tap at the end of one pass, so that section probably double that) - it's now currently over 800,000 and there is no wear. That mark you can see is actually a dust line and cleans off with some IPA - I probably should have cleaned it first but I did literally take it off while filming. Interestingly, the ball spends the majority of it's time rolling up and down the middle, the vibrations sometimes shim it to one side, which of course it decided to do when I filmed it

    Cheers,
    Damian

    #21 1 year ago
    Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

    Hey Haggis, I’m out of the loop but I’m very glad you guys are still trucking along. I really don’t pay attention to most pinball upstarts because it’s always seemed to head the same way...
    So for someone who’s out of the loop.
    What games are you producing, how close are you to cranking out games and how many have you designed?
    Will you be producing them or going through an existing manufacturer?

    Just one game currently: Celts

    Will have some production games at TPF and at least one at MCG, so come along and have a flip if you're there. Production is currently to order, and we'll be firing up the line once we get back from the shows

    #22 1 year ago

    I truly hope as many people who are currently in the position to buy new games order and support you guys!

    Do you have any dream themes you would like to work on/create in the future? Actually don’t answer that we don’t want them being snapped up

    #23 1 year ago
    Quoted from J85M:

    I truly hope as many people who are currently in the position to buy new games order and support you guys!
    Do you have any dream themes you would like to work on/create in the future? Actually don’t answer that we don’t want them being snapped up

    Thanks and yes, and don't worry, I wont

    -27
    #24 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheCapn:

    Fresh off the press!

    Nobody cares!

    #25 1 year ago

    I played it at Dave's Christmas pinball bash was it the same playfield? or is this a new prototype? FYI i am undefeated at Celts and now retired undefeated.

    #26 1 year ago
    Quoted from HaggisPinball:

    Thanks to Cary for posting the review
    I clarified a couple of points on the YouTube clip, so thought I would add them here as well:
    Hi Cary - thanks for making the video - much appreciated
    Just to clarify a couple of points:
    1. Acrylic layer is 4.5mm (so a little under a 1/4 inch)
    2. The plywood layer is 9mm, so I end up at a standard thickness playfield so standard mechs still fit
    2. The test rig at the time I filmed that was at 504,000 passes (with a small double tap at the end of one pass, so that section probably double that) - it's now currently over 800,000 and there is no wear. That mark you can see is actually a dust line and cleans off with some IPA - I probably should have cleaned it first but I did literally take it off while filming. Interestingly, the ball spends the majority of it's time rolling up and down the middle, the vibrations sometimes shim it to one side, which of course it decided to do when I filmed it
    Cheers,
    Damian

    Thanks for taking a serious and intellectual stand on playfield issues, doing tests etc.
    Well done

    It´s remarkable that more established manufacturers over the years, has simply choosen to shit on the customers.
    My guess is they dont want your things to stand for the test of time, but to buy buy buy.

    On the subject, have you tested with scratch free polycarbonate?
    Granted, it costs way more then acrylic, but you can probably get away with a much thinner layer.

    #27 1 year ago

    It's about time someone has the fortitude to to resolve this issue. Nice to know that dimpling and other playfield issues are being addressed, instead of the normalcy and lowered expectations from some hobbyists,newbies, podcasters, distributors, and certain pinball companies who think that dimpling and other play field defects are the norm for an $8000.00 to $15,000.00 pinball machine.

    #28 1 year ago

    Very impressive !
    Can’t wait to play it..

    #29 1 year ago

    Thanks all

    @noob-a-tron new playfield, retiring undefeated is a good idea
    @Dr-pin we are using a scratch resistant acrylic - comfortably stood up to a steel wool scratch test

    #30 1 year ago

    Looks fantastic, I'm looking forward to playing a pin with this PF and see how it feels. Nice work and thanks for addressing one of our biggest problems.

    #31 1 year ago

    Look great! Here is a pic of my 24 year old, 42000 play Spinball Jolly Park. They used a similar concept. Still looks amazing. My Hardtopped Comet also looks as good as the day it was installed. I guess some people will say it's different than playing on wood. But doesn't seem any less fun.

    20200106_164901 (resized).jpg
    #32 1 year ago

    How different is this from the old Gottlieb Vitrigraph process? Seems to be very similar....and I can tell you, they have held up very well over the years!

    #33 1 year ago

    I wonder if stern will now buy this game so they can reverse engineer....... and then charge thousands of dollars more! Haha

    #34 1 year ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    How different is this from the old Gottlieb Vitrigraph process? Seems to be very similar....and I can tell you, they have held up very well over the years!

    I have a Diamond Lady with a Vitrograph playfield. I'd say that Vitrograph is more similar to a hard top in thickness whereas the Haggis solution is a thick piece of acrylic. Both options protect the playfield from wear. I doubt Vitrograph would protect against the sledgehammer test due to how thin it is but for its time it was a nice solution. My preference for playability and looks is still traditional wood playfield with a nice clearcoat but with the way quality has been recently on clearcoats/wood I can see why this would be a good option.

    #35 1 year ago
    Quoted from delt31:

    I wonder if stern will now buy this game so they can reverse engineer....... and then charge thousands of dollars more! Haha

    Nah they aren’t that smart.

    #36 1 year ago

    The Spinball one is probably triple the thickness of the Hardtop. Tokyo Perfect Drift by Quetzel also uses a similar concept.

    #37 1 year ago
    Quoted from MikeS:

    I have a Diamond Lady with a Vitrograph playfield. I'd say that Vitrograph is more similar to a hard top in thickness whereas the Haggis solution is a thick piece of acrylic. Both options protect the playfield from wear. I doubt Vitrograph would protect against the sledgehammer test due to how thin it is but for its time it was a nice solution. My preference for playability and looks is still traditional wood playfield with a nice clearcoat but with the way quality has been recently on clearcoats/wood I can see why this would be a good option.

    So long as that acrylic bond is good enough that it cannot sheer off the bond during years of temperature and humidity changes, I don't see why this solution wouldn't work just as well. I'll have to smack my Victory under the apron sometime and see how much it marks up I still think print and clear over a solid phenolic sheet would be an even better option for someone to try, since it is not affected by heat and humidity whatsoever.

    #38 1 year ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    How different is this from the old Gottlieb Vitrigraph process?

    Anyone have or know where there is a listing of the pins Gottlieb used this method on? I ask this because I've had my Star Race for over 20yrs and one thing that has always perplexed me about it is in areas where the paint shows cross hatching (like this #) where the artist was making rock surface shadow etc. feels almost as if they embossed it on. You can actually feel those areas of cross hatching on the playfield.

    #39 1 year ago

    Well guys, you will not see this getting hyped and Stern and JJP getting called out on the Pinball Network

    #40 1 year ago
    Quoted from RWH:

    Anyone have or know where there is a listing of the pins Gottlieb used this method on? I ask this because I've had my Star Race for over 20yrs and one thing that has always perplexed me about it is in areas where the paint shows cross hatching (like this #) where the artist was making rock surface shadow etc. feels almost as if they embossed it on. You can actually feel those areas of cross hatching on the playfield.

    IPDB states it was only Diamond Lady, Victory and TX-Sector

    77218F67-E827-49F9-8AAE-8020230DA3AC (resized).jpeg
    #41 1 year ago
    Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

    IPDB states it was only Diamond Lady, Victory and TX-Sector[quoted image]

    Victory had both silk screened and Vitrograph. Not sure if the others had both as well.

    #42 1 year ago

    I think I want a Haggis pinball shirt.

    #43 1 year ago
    Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

    IPDB states it was only Diamond Lady, Victory and TX-Sector

    Thanks, I was googling it an really not getting much.

    #44 1 year ago

    Interflip dragon had an acrylic playfield surface. Those seem to have held up pretty well.

    #45 1 year ago
    Quoted from freeplay3:

    I think I want a Haggis pinball shirt.

    Me too! I hope they bring some to TPF (hint, hint).

    #46 1 year ago

    The first game from Haggis isn't my cup of tea, but I like these guys already! Looking forward to seeing what else they have in store.

    #47 1 year ago

    Yes, very impressive.

    I'm conflicted here though...Hopefully, Haggis has applied for a patent for this process, just to protect their work.
    OTOH, I'd like to see the other manufacturers have a playfield this resilient too.

    Ideally, Haggis licenses the tech to other companies, and everyone gets better playfields. Of course, if something similar was done by other manufacturers a long time ago, this might not be an option.

    When deeproot was talking about their playfield's sledgehammer test, I was assuming that they were going to do something similar to this. And I was disappointed that they showed off a "normal" playfield.

    I spoke to some of the Haggis guys at the last TPF, and they seemed like a great bunch of people.

    #48 1 year ago

    Been following these guys from the start, fascinating work they are doing!

    #49 1 year ago

    This really reminded me of New Canasta.

    https://www.pinballnews.com/games/newcanasta/index.html

    And also my Harlem Globetrotters. I have 2 copies of HG. One is standard wood, and the other one has the plastic prototype playfield that Bally made a few games with as test platforms. That playfield still almost looks new and still plays amazing. Of course the drawback of the Bally version of that was that with tons of hard play, the screwholes on the bottom would loosen up over time. Not an issue in home use, but on location, it caused things to occasionally drop off the bottom of the playfield. It looks like these guys have overcome that by using wood on the bottom, and plastic on the top. An interesting solution.

    #50 1 year ago
    Quoted from HaggisPinball:

    Just one game currently: Celts
    Will have some production games at TPF and at least one at MCG, so come along and have a flip if you're there. Production is currently to order, and we'll be firing up the line once we get back from the shows

    Awesome.
    Looking forward to playing it at TPF.

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