Fathom (Classic Edition)
Haggis, 2021
Fathom (Mermaid Edition)
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Well Haggis has started shipping the Mermaid Editions of the Haggis fathom remake, so time for an owners club.
Who's in with what spot # ?
I have a mermaid coming but i don't know spot number yet as i told Haggis i wasn't in a rush.
Quoted from Meldenhut:Machine number #65 here
No idea of spot number, was it ever given out or just assumed by invoice number?
Sorry, i did mean machine #
Interested to see how many people have ordered a classic and what your motivation was for the choice. I could see it being operated for sure, same money here as a new Stern pro (bit cheaper probs), absolutely gorgeous looking machine that will attract the eye and the attention, hence the coins.
Quoted from Engel67:Number 233. I’m on the Mermaid tail in. Pun intended!
Wow did you just get in or was that a number choice?
Quoted from Pinballer73:Looking forward to seeing the 1st one arrive with the new owner and seeing it unboxed.
Hopefully that person is here on Pinside or another platform to share the details once it arrives.
I wonder how long that will be?
Hoping Doctor John's one is one the way to him already. He'll stream it for sure. The one in the vid is going to Brisbane too.
Quoted from PinballShoppe:I've scored a spot in the Mermaid production queue! Don't know the number yet, but I'm looking forward to showcasing Haggis' work and selling future titles
Let me guess, it cost you 10kus? 
Quoted from PinballShoppe:I paid this one in Great British Pounds
Are you going to distribute Haggis over the ditch?
Quoted from oldskool1969:I am hoping to see sited Fathom classics in the near future at most pinball venues.
Who would have thought a 40+ year old designed machine would be in this era of wanktech.
I wonder if many operators are on this?
Full circle and love it.
Bright and shiney would attract coins for sure.
Quoted from visualmagic:I should join this as my ME is on the truck.
#030
Can't wait!
Is Bill bringing it for you?
Quoted from Llabnip1972:As I understand it the original owner paid to have it flown to him. I just got lucky, but I've always been lucky when it comes to scoring sweet pins.
WOW!
He hated it that much after waiting so long.... How many games are on it?
He must have been shattered.
Quoted from Llabnip1972:I don't know. All I know is that he didn't make any money. That kind of altruism is rare these days.
All I know is that I'm the luckiest guy on pinside today and that this is the most beautiful pin I've ever seen. It's going to be fun watching these go out in world.
Maybe after we get a few more out someone can give me a slope angle for leveling the playfield
Just email Haggis, they are excellent at getting back mostly.
Quoted from Brk_oth:Check with Damian.
The way he worded it from our phone conversations I got the impression that this was a new addition and I may have been the first customer that this was offered to...
I would assume that the options are either 1) Plastic protectors installed at factory, or 2) no plastic protectors provided at all if you prefer a more original look.
Game is going well so far, no major issues.
Service and help from Damian has been top notch.
I get my first look at one at Pinfest in three weeks alongside Celts which i am very familiar with. There'll be a couple of Homepin Spinal Taps there as well as the latest from Stern.
Cant. Wait.
Quoted from Brk_oth:Well we will see you there at Pinfest - The Australian Pinball museum display will be set up on the main stage featuring displays of original pinball factory documents and engineering drawings from Bally/Williams/Capcom/Gottlieb plus a range of 1930's pinballs available to play.
Ace, Woopi Freeballers are against the outside wall below the stage i believe. I'm taking six games.
Quoted from DawnP:We are in for a Mermaid, not sure what # we are. Can’t wait, looks awesome!
Did you buy one of the boxed ones for sale, or a preorder spot from someone?
Well done and you'll love it.
Quoted from MT45:My review is up if interested
Just LOVING this game ...
https://thepinballloft.com/
Fathomagical
You listed Fathom as Haggi's first game, you left out this.
Quoted from c818919taylor:Did you ask for #215 specifically or truly 215 out of 250 are completed?
Anybody know?
I'm joking mate, most people picked a number.
Celts is the same, even inside or from the back the machine screams quality of workmanship and materials. All the extra things, like engraved power supply covers and vents in the Haggis Logo shape. The cab finish is automotive quality. Other manufacturers could learn a very big lesson here.
None more so than the lesson dished out to Homepin at the last Newcastle Pinfest when there were two Mermaids sitting next to two Spinal Taps.
Quoted from Zukram:Ask for the protectors if yours did not have them.. I asked to purchase a set from sales when i saw pictures show up a couple months ago, and they said they were putting retrofit kits together (and I would not have to purchase).. Finally 2 days ago a package arrived, and protector set was inside with a bunch of wasters and nuts...
He said he has a Bally mate, not a Haggis.
Quoted from Dakine747:I’ll say!! That little attention to detail might be insignificant to some, but I think it’s really impressive!
And all their machines are packed with that stuff. Best builds in the industry, i think i have or have had most brands of machine here.
Quoted from paulbaptiste:Help…
The top blue scoop is really struggling to eject. Its bad enough that it really effects gameplay. May take 10 attempts to eject the ball. If I up the coil strength to increase the eject force it just ricochets off the post and comes right back into the scoop. It will repeat this process 5 -10 times as well.
Any help with this issue?
Have a really good look at it and see where it's hitting something?
Quoted from paulbaptiste:No it’s set correct and level. Not sure what’s recommended but I’m at 6.5. Which worked perfectly until now. This just began happening over the last day or two. Operated perfectly (the scoop eject that is) for 50 plus games now showing this problem. Has gotten worse, eject growing weaker, as time went on. I’ll examine the kicker arm and mech tomorrow.
Once you figure out what's going on, it will probs be a screw backed out under the playfield, or you may have to bend the arm slightly if it's all secure.
Quoted from paulbaptiste:There are holes on the top of the cabinet. This leads me to believe that they have something planned. I certainly hope so, I wish they would just do a full fleshed version of the original instead of flat plastic. I love the original topper. If they could do that in 3d that'd be incredible.
That's probably Haggis's redundancy planning. Celts has power taps available in the backbox spare. They are *not* there to run accessories as that would void your warranty, but they would be handy and appreciated if you were a wanton warranty voider. 
I would suggest the holes in top are there for the same reason, Haggis is pinball people.
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:I think it may be more... but not sure. The original was $8900 US per this graphic, but lets not forget there has been a price increase since for new machines going forward... [quoted image]
None of the Mermaids would have been affected by a price increase. They were all spoken for very early on.
Thanks for the review, wonderful stuff and i'm jealous.
I knew from Celts how the quality would be, so it was a no brainer for me to order. the only question was to sell my original while it was the only game in town and hope that paid off, being without a Fathom for i didn't think this long, or wait and see and keep both until i could compare.
I'm happy with my decision as i am positive that it will be beautiful when it comes, and i am positive that it will come.
Haven't bothered looking, but i see ignored user comment.
It's a bit special when i can collect ignored users without ever ignoring anyone, and those users can determine what i can and can't see on the forum i pay to support.
The whole system is childish and caters to childish people.
Quoted from skink91:Its a bizarre sort of thing to come to this thread and not be able to see half the posts (being blocked by he-who-shall-not-be-named) and try and guess what he is posting based on everyone else’s responses.
Yes, it's a pretty stupid system where even the thread starter can't see half the posts in their thread.
Any system that gives others the right to control what you see is pretty fucked up.
Quoted from Aurich:If you had put him on ignore already you wouldn't even know if you were blocked or not.
There's also a setting to just straight up hide ignored posts, I don't even see the placeholder message. So if half the posts here are invisible to me I wouldn't even know it. Try it, you can just forget some people exist until someone else brings them up.
It's childish to pretend others don't exist. And most people here are not children
Or they could just take the protector off and leave it off?
There's glitch in the system aurich, and that's worth sorting out. The childish people are censoring what others see, and i for one did not give permission for someone to censor what i see (besides an authorised moderator).
But in any case, back to Fathom.
Quoted from Mr68:I'll be filing a complaint with Robin and the moderators. A respectful complaint because that's how the Moderators always treat me whenever I get pulled over for speeding or DUI.
Our favorite Pinsider, d0n, has blocked me and yet he continues to bad mouth me with his nonsense. In other words, the blocking feature has become a tool he can hide behind and that benefits him and penalizes me.
I mean, it's easy to defeat by logging out and reading pinside anonymously, but there again, the hindrance is on me, caused by him.
Anyway, I thought what we had before worked perfectly fine. - Some of you others might want to voice your concerns to the Mods also.
BTW. I don't block people as that is my choice. And I don't want it forced on me.
You are welcome to quote this thread as an example.
Quoted from surfnrg:Not sure why people get so upset at people who flip games. It's no different than selling Pokemon cards or any other collectible. With haggis he set it up in a way that there is pretty much guaranteed scarcity. This enabled him to sell games a year before he could produce them, and some people gambled on a possible financial gain. That's part of the hobby of collecting pinball games. That was literally the biggest selling point in this situation. Was 30k too high? Probably. Was 5k too high for a preorder spot? Apparently not.
There's a thread for this, as you know.
Go precision flippers. No question.
The only question is whether you want to go the solids so it looks old school, or the Halo's so it plays like a rock star.
I'm thinking halos because they make the game better and make me play better, but solids are going in my Sunset Riders.
I sold my nice, original, unrestored Bally for $8kau, which is what i paid for it. Can't remember what the original price of the Mermaid was, and my order confirmation just shows the deposit with no total. Anyone remember what they were in $au?
I don't think it was an expensive upgrade, but i knew it would be huge one.
Much cheaper than a stern premium here.
Quoted from Boof-Ed:$12650 for Aussies
That's what it says for the classics now, but was that the original price?
Quoted from paulbaptiste:Mermaid was 11,500 AUD originally.
That sounds betterer and more in line with my memory.
So both correct, $12,650 with the G?
Quoted from John_I:Classics were $9500 AUD originally and up until recently.
I don't need two, although i have two Aliens....
Precision bats. Best flipper on the market without doubt.
Mine will be getting solids as i don't think the Halo's fit the era, but Halo's play even better if that's what's important to you.
Have no doubts, those things are the business. I'm slowly putting them on most of my long term keepers.
Quoted from paulbaptiste:They aren’t the same shape. Have won’t okay the same with modern flippers.
It's the flat edge that matters most. It's flat on both.... 
Also won't play the same with modern mechs, modern playfield surface, modern rules and modern rubbers.
But if i wanted it to play the same i would have kept my Bally.
Quoted from c818919taylor:punkin your Mermaid going to be delivered before or after PF LEs?
There's a question?
I'd love to be in that race.
Quoted from Rjbdmdmd:Punkin,
I am not sure if you were referring to me or paulbaptiste but we're both in Illinois USA North America. We don't know one another.
Definitely you, with the three singles in a row.
It's very possible you are in a small minority. Such a beautiful game, iconic sounds. I looked for one for ages when i first started collecting, but have been knocking them back lately as i don't think the gameplay would keep me interested.
I'd do it soon, there are hints coming that the next title will be announced soon. I read here that they will finish mermaids and standards and do a few celts then move on. How long that is away is anyones guess. You can just put a deposit in.
Quoted from pcprogrammer:Actually I'll end up with two simpler games - Fathom and Pulp Fiction LE. Fathom looks amazing from all the YouTube videos I watched. I still want a Tron Pro also.
All great choices. I keep tossing up between Deadpool and Tron for the best Sterns i've ever played.
Pulp Fiction is at the top of my list, a beautiful game that is right in my favourite style of pinball. I'm a sys9-sys11 guy.
Quoted from Mr68:I'm kind of laughing these days, especially after the Texas Pinball Festival.
When Fathom 2.0 was first announced from Haggis, some of the pinball snobs, mostly newbies, turned their noses up to it. I heard condescending complaints about no ramps and nobody will ever want a single level game.
Then Bond 60th from Elwin comes out and was soon followed by Pulp Fiction. Now all of the cool kids want one.
When Haggis announced i sold my Bally Fathom after ordering. I knew it was a keeper cause i already had one.
I see the bond one getting a bad rap from comments elsewhere, is it just the code that people hate, or is it more?
Quoted from Mr68:I've played the Elwin Bond and I like it a lot. But, as has already been beaten to death on Pinside, not worth the money.
People have high expectations for an expensive game and it's disappointing to find out it's just another game, no matter how good.
I think that slice of psychology might have something to do with Bond getting a bad rap.
Haven't been following it, but saw a few mentions in other threads, Pulp Fiction had inevitable comparisons. That makes sense.
I think it's good for pinball, which i love and love to promote and to share, and it's good for the people who missed out.
My Mermaid will still be more beautiful with the chrome trim (that door!), the undercab lighting etc, will still be an LE and will be unchanged from when i ordered it.
Other people who weren't lucky enough to get a mermaid will now be able to get a better pinball machine for themselves too and i am very happy for them.
All this business of just not wanting anyone to have something nice comes across as horrible and selfish to me.
But i can see i am in a minority, just my views.
They are not taking anything off you, people.
They are just offering nice things to other people. Saying you don't want anyone else to have something nice is just mean.
It doesn't cost you anything.
Quoted from rai:I think it's a shitty move 1000%, I still love my Fathom Mermaid but do not understand why Haggis would suffer the ill will for such a small number of games or money involved.
Because they love pinball as much as we do and want to share it with more people?
Once again, nobody has lost anything, nothing has been taken from you. It's just that others get to share great pinball. It's a good thing, no question, if you care about other people.
Quoted from paulbaptiste:I wish it was that simple but it’s not. If they want to change their business model on the next four games then so be it. But the scarcity and uniqueness of the Mermaid features are what promoted sales. 2.0 code is the largest reason to get a Mermaid, not all the cosmetic stuff. I had a beautiful original Fathom and the only reason I sold was for the 2.0 code. Only reason I purchased a Mermaid was for the 2.0 code. They were explicit in stating that the Mermaid edition was the only way to obtain the new code. So plenty of us jumped on board and have silently helped to fund the company based upon the uniqueness of these Mermaid games. To offer up the one attribute that sets it apart to brand new buyers is wrong. At least to do so after the fact. It’s wrong.
But you are still getting everything you purchased. Nothing has been taken away from you. It is that simple.
The only thing you are trying to do is to stop anyone else getting it.
I was taught that that was selfish, and indeed wrong. Nothing i have seen in my life has contradicted that view.
I saw it a lot in my decades in the trade union movement, if i can't have it neither should he.
Well, his pay rate is grandfathered, i can't get it for you. do you want it taken off him?
The answer was much too often yes.
Makes me sick that level of selfishness and desire for exclusivity.
Quoted from surfnrg:exactly. We helped fun the company to build the games. In return we were promised a unique experience. If this was in the US there would be a lawsuit and they'd be finished. Manufactured scarcity is the reason they are able to pre-sell so many games and raise capital.
Quoted from Micky:You mean like Stern did with Munsters where they announced 500 LEs would be made then changed the number of LEs to 600.
Wait, so Stern is finished because of the lawsuit?
Quoted from paulbaptiste:You make it sound like screwing over mermaid owners is their only viable option to stay afloat. It’s not. I’d think keeping the goodwill of 250 original owners would be more profitable in the long run than driving them away.
If they needed an influx of cash then just announce Centaur and be done with it. That would garner a lot more attention and positive attention at that, than this insult to the people that have quietly backed this endeavor for the past two years.
I’m all for Haggis and love what they’re doing and want them to be successful. I just believe there is a way to go at that without damaging your reputation and pissing off your existing user base.
You make is sound like they have screwed Mermaid owners over when you say they have screwed Mermaid owners over.
They have not.
We have got, or are getting, exactly what we paid for, they can't be screwing anyone over because they have taken nothing away except part of your superior exclusive feeling. they didn't offer you a feeling, they offered yo a machine which they are delivering on.
They are offering something extra to others, not taking anything way from you.
And people are so mean hearted that they don't want others to enjoy what they have. You people make the world a worse place than it has to be with your mean spirited selfishness.
GO HAGGIS!
Quoted from Damonator:If anyone is so upset that they want to bail, PM me and I'll take over your deposit for $1500AUD (the original deposit amount).
Good exchange rate now too!
Money where mouth is time.
Quoted from paulbaptiste:We obviously aren’t going to agree here as you keep arguing the same point. This isn’t about being selfish. This is about integrity. Keeping your word. This is about advertising something in a way that helped promote sales, and then once that money has all been collected changing the terms of the agreement. It’s wrong.
If you don't like arguing the same point why are you repeating your childish selfish statements?
It's wrong in your view because you are standing on an entitled rock to make your point.
And if it's so wrong and you feel so woke, then take up the offer above and you'll be instantly made all better.
Quoted from paulbaptiste:And there is the insults. Well done punkin. Well done.
It's a behavioural description, not an insult.
Quoted from Cobray:So you were critical of any Mermaid owner on pinside selling a game or trying to profit in any way... yet Haggis trying to profit by now offering a limited part of a game as now not limited is totally OK?
Seems like you back Haggis no matter what and don't care about actual machine owners/pinball enthusiasts.
"So you were critical of any Mermaid owner on pinside selling a game or trying to profit in any way"
Patently untrue. I was critical of the parasites trying to make thousands of dollars off their pinball peers (us) by selling games they don't have possession of.
I don't care if people sell pinballs for profit, i've done it myself on occasion. I object to people setting out to do it, with paper machines that they don't have, and i wasn't alone in my condemnation of youknowwho.
"yet Haggis trying to profit by now offering a limited part of a game as now not limited is totally OK?"
Trying to profit on it is your jaded view not mine, so don't ascribe that statement to me.
I believe Haggis is offering other people a great way to enjoy more pinball for a reasonable price. Damian said people have been asking him to do it.
If every other person that ever owns a pinball machine gets it, i'm all in favour of it yes. It costs me nothing and pinball is fun.
"Seems like you back Haggis no matter what and don't care about actual machine owners/pinball enthusiasts."
You know what they say about assumptions.
You are so self absorbed that you can't see that it is exactly other pinball owners who i am happy for, despite me stating that until i've been told to stop repeating myself.
Is your mind editing out my words and substituting something else mate?
Quoted from greenhornet:In America, we have a label for someone who reneges on a deal.[quoted image]
In Australia we have a word for someone who gets everything they wanted and still complains.
Whinger.
Quoted from surfnrg:They didn't get what they purchased which was 1 of 250 that sets theirs apart from others. Those people risked their money for a chance to get this reward. There was a big chance that they'd never receive a game and lose their deposit, but they took the gamble. It was a crappy move on their part. It was crappy when Stern did it, much worse when JJP did it and really bad when CGC did it too. I think this will backfire on them, I doubt they'll sell too many kits with this strategy either. They're out of the circle of trust.
So it won't be delivered without as much of a superior feeling to others.
Big fucking deal.
Quoted from dscapo:This company man mentality would’ve fit perfectly suppressing coal miner strikes here in the 30’s. You missed your calling my friend.
You really are so far off the mark. 
I just told the thread i have decades of Trade Union background.
I am the opposite of the snarky little comment you aim at me, Brother.
And i don't care about their company any more than i care about any other small businessman like myself.
I care about the people who are working hard to make us nice things, and i care about the people i can share the nice things with.
There were twenty people at my place yesterday i shared my pinballs with and gave a great Sunday afternoon to. I'm not smug, but i'm satisfied.
I'll leave you guys to this bitch fest, but i will say one final thing.
I love pinball and want to share it with as many people as possible.
I want everyone to get a chance to play pinball as often as possible, and to play the best pinball machines out.
That's why i open my place to anyone who want's to come, most every sunday, and most other days of the week too.
What you guys are trying to do is to keep a great part of pinball away from as many people as possible, by saying you don't want others to have it for no other reason than you want an ethereal exclusivity feeling or a few dollars more when you sell it...
We are diametrically opposed
Yesterday. This is what pinball means to me.
I hope they release the code as a V2 and sell it to Bally Fathom owners.
Quoted from dscapo:What was your trade union background? Arguing the company’s point of view in front of the hall? Telling the members to sit down shut up and take what they are given? I’m just like you brother. I call them as I see them.
Quoted from flynnibus:The entire value proposition of exclusivity is not based solely on what you physically got but what others don’t get. It literally is the delta of availability that defines it.
So Yes, when you change the exclusivity of something you materially have impacted what you already delivered. You did take something away.
What i find more amusing is for all this time everybody didn’t think haggis needed your money to get things done… now everybody is like ‘we floated you’ ‘we backed you’ as if you were the money that made them whole. Lol… which is it?
This seems like an obvious move to drum up more sales… or maybe burn up some inventory they already committed to. but it seems like such a small fiscal gain for so much market risk.
Those who missed out on fathom could have gotten in on a re run in the future… this push to sell 2.0 kits doesn’t pass the sniff test. Maybe they we’re facing people wanting out of classic orders? If there was so much market interest it wouldn’t dry up in 2 weeks and would live on to be revisited at a later date. Something has to be significant enough to make them dump on their prior commitments
This is an owners thread.
Do you have a dog in this race?
Quoted from Rjbdmdmd:Nope, he's just back to troll.
Quoted from punkin:This is an owners thread.
Do you have a dog in this race?
In that case i'll refer you to the thread for that.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jaws-by-haggis-pinball
In there in the trash bin and i'll see you there. Please leave the owners thread and your opinions to the owners.
Quoted from dscapo:I want to make sure that having a deposit and being a “would be eventual owner” qualifies one for this forum. Otherwise you and me both are in trouble.
The etiquette for owners threads are well established. You have been here for years.
Quoted from gprotein:You mean you have no problem for Haggis to share advertised limited 2.0 code to classic units, but you can’t share floor space on a public forum for others’ opinion. Oh the irony, their freedom of speech “takes nothing away” from your views, so don’t be “selfish”.
For me, I wish they handled this announcement better but I’m not surprised since this move happened many times before in this industry (CCRLE topper for one example). If this means keeping the company afloat and making more games then I’m all for it. Competition is good in any industry, even in pinball
Pinside makes the rules for owners threads not me.
So i'll ask you outright, are you an owner? Do you have skin in the game?
There is no reason you can't express your opinion if not. You just can't come into a thread for owners and start shitting everywhere.
There is a thread going with many pages you can do it, or you can start your own.
If you are not an owner then you should not be posting in the owners club.
Too complex?
Quoted from Rjbdmdmd:I used 2 needle nose pliers. if you over expand it it will capture and retain the ball. photo is prior to bending
[quoted image]
He said playfield hangers, not auto plunge.
I'll go you one better. For 12kau you can have my low plays 2 Black Onyx in the world Celts, AND my mermaid spot in the queue.
Been spending way too much on pinballs lately, and have other single level games coming that i fancy.
Damian will ship. Buy the pair for less than a classic.
Quoted from gold1:Just wondering why there has been an influx of Oz sellers,including Punkin all of a sudden?
Coincidence?
Listed on the book here now. 12kau ~ $8kUS
Celts LE#55/200 one of two Black Onyx trim machines in the world. No faults, no scratches, no wear. Low plays
Includes Mermaid LE deposit paid spot order #305.
Will ship to Haggis for repackaging for export. Damian has said he'll go through and check the game for the buyer and make sure everything works correctly
Quoted from jardine:Nothing news worthy. This is less about him selling at a loss and more about every post ever made by this lunatic about Haggis. All he did was beat his chest about the company and the games and how we were all f wits for saying anything but they are great etc etc....now he's jumping off the ship. ed
If you had anything slightly less than his opinion, you were jumped on by this bloke, berated to an extent and now he's selling his Mermaid spot and Celts. Pretty much everything he said is now a slap in his face!
You need to see a councilor mate. I'm just selling a pinball machine. Nothing more.
I still think the company is great and would still stick by them.
Too many coming in and not enough going out.
Looking forward to their next one.
GO HAGGIS!
Quoted from gold1:you say that you have been spending too much on pinballs yet others are coming in??Strange that you are moving on the pins that you have staunchly fought for.
Wrong again. I fought staunchly for people to give the company Haggis, and their staff and owners respect.
I do like Fathom, i have had an original. Other machines have been released since then and i have more incoming, but only 26 spaces. If i want a new machine (and i do) then i have to sell one if there's no space.
That's the rule i live by, I'm happy to explain it to you. Even though you make out i'm telling lies and you purposely or ignorantly confuse my actions past and present.
Repeat; I have never staunchly fought for these pins.
I have staunchly fought for Damian and Haggis's name and will continue to do so where warranted.
Quoted from gprotein:Exactly and this came from a fellow Australian among a few others as well apparently. Now by his logics and definitions of this thread: since he won’t be an owner hopefully soon, we will see no more of his obnoxious presence and comments. That’s a win in my book
I don't know why you think what country you are born in has anything to do with being ignorant and incorrect, but if you are going down the nationalistic road, your habit of personally abusing people does your flag no good at all.
I supported Haggis and ordered every product they made.
I have a TNA coming in, another single level game that i happen to prefer over Celts and i only have one spot and don't need two games that similar.
Quoted from gold1:Purposely of ignorantly confuse your actions past and present????????Seriously what are you banging on about? I just ask you a simple question and now you accuse me of having a go at you.Gee poor poppet I think you need to calm down and be a bit more rational.
I answered your simple question, and i answered the other things you threw.
Not my fault you don't like the truth. And i never had a go at you in the slightest.
I explained it to you twice in the post you quoted, as i knew you'd ignore it to make your own point if i only said it once.
I really don't think you are qualified to comment on rational until such times you pass comprehension. 
Quoted from gold1:you say that you have been spending too much on pinballs yet others are coming in?
Answer to simple question;
Quoted from punkin:Other machines have been released since then and i have more incoming, but only 26 spaces. If i want a new machine (and i do) then i have to sell one if there's no space.
Answer to this shit;
Quoted from gold1:?Strange that you are moving on the pins that you have staunchly fought for.
Quoted from punkin:Wrong again. I fought staunchly for people to give the company Haggis, and their staff and owners respect.
Repeat; I have never staunchly fought for these pins.
I have staunchly fought for Damian and Haggis's name and will continue to do so where warranted.
What don't you get? I told you twice?
ThreeTimesIfYouCountThisPunkin
Quoted from gold1:never staunch for the pins.................................................
What a bastard i am. I congratulated someone on buying a nice pinball machine.
PoliticalThatArcticfox-max-1mb.gif
You got me there. I should never have been so polite on pinside. And i have no right ever listing a pinball machine i own for less than it cost me after sticking up for the company.
Just lucky there's people like you to keep people in line hey?
Quoted from gold1:never staunch for the pins.................................................
I tell you what, tell me how i've hurt you?
Say how it's done something to you, that i have listed my pinball machine for less than i paid for it?
You have set out to attack me, so tell me what i have taken from you?
Quoted from Haymaker:Look I don't care what Damien did, HES STILL A GREAT GUY AND I DON'T CARE IF HE BANGS MY WIFE EVEN, HE LITTERALLY CAN DO NO WRONG NO MATTER WHAT!! BUY WITH CONFIDENCE, HES AUSTRALIAN AND I'M AUSTRALIAN SO THAT MEANS HES PERFECT IN EVERY WAY AND COMPLETELY IMMUNE TO ANY KIND OF CRITISICM SO DON'T EVEN TRY IT OR I'LL HAVE A MELTDOWN SCOLDING YOU ABOUT HOW WRONG YOU ARE ABOUT MY BEST FRIEND IN THE WORLD DAMIEN...also my games are for sale....THEY ARE THE GREATEST GAMES OF ALL TIME THOUGH!!
What are you, six years old?
Quoted from Damonator:Chubby precisions (prototypes)
[quoted image]
Yippee!!!
Why haven't we heard about these?
John's been hiding his lantern.
Quoted from oldskool1969:Shiny polished metal with black or red flippers would look shit hot .
Reckon they'd get custom with an order that big. 
I have my spot for sale if anyone is interested. Downturn in my industry has cash a bit tight here and space is short too.
$2kau will get it for you.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/267321664071240/posts/1500131260790268
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:New owner question:
The water effect under the cab thingie presently goes super fast and alternates kind of harshly between just blue or just green. It's kind of distracting.
I've seen some videos where blue and green are both on all the time and the speed is slower, do I just push some buttons on the back of the device to change things up?
Also, is there a manual specifying the parts used? I need to pick up some metric hex keys because some plastics and posts are loose and apparently T-nuts are not a thing in Australia
Thanks!
Plenty of t nuts in Australia mate.
https://www.boltandnut.com.au/nuts/tee-nut
And how specifically does a T nut stop a post from coming loose?
Quoted from Boof-Ed:It has a fixed base for the bolt/screw so it doesn’t move. There is a bigger hole than the screws with the current set up.
My top lane posts would move every time the ball hit them off the pops.
Also changing the rubbers would be a lot easier. I wanted to change mine but when I saw how involved it was going to be I said stuff that.
Don't quite get it sorry? I'm not picturing what you are saying.
I have had plenty of parts that are screwed into t nuts come loose...
Quoted from Boof-Ed:But your sterns posts are the same size as the hole. On the Haggis games the hole is a little bigger so the post has movement inside. Haggis advised me not to over tighten the posts.
Ahh, same as JJP then. my GnR had the same issue.
Quoted from Gotfrogs:Do these have a keyed shaft?
The shafts are separate to the flippers (if you don't buy a kit) and you can use either if you buy the shafts, bushings and bats separately.
Quoted from John_I:Wow that keyed shaft is a great idea. I have these on flippers on a couple of Stern games and never saw the keyed shafts before! The precision flippers are awesome and seems like a great upgrade for Haggis Fathom.
Stern clamps aren't too bad and don't particularly need them. it's the B/W clamps that are made out of potmetal shit and are bent to a pretzel when they leave the factory that are the problem.
I have the Precisions on 3 Sterns and they are fine, MY CGC AFM and my PB Alien both needed the keyed shafts.
John's an ideas man.
Quoted from frankmac:Some have paid in full in February. That’s 8 months. Something is drastically wrong.
Why come here to vent?
None here can do anything about it, so why?
What is your purpose if it's not to have the problem rectified (assuming the problem affects you at all).
Just paid my invoice a few weeks ago, i know that it may not be 8 weeks.......
And they certainly do answer emails and phone calls, probs not the 'where's my machine' one by the seems of it.
Quoted from frankmac:Sorry it bothers you so much.
As per the gif, it bothers me not. It bores the shit out of me is all.
But you haven't answered the question.
What do you hope to achieve by telling us all the things we have known for quite sometime?
I don't know how attacking me makes it good for you, but in any case.
Your first question was, why do you defend?
(didn't read the rest)
I'm not defending anything. I'm saying we all know the situation and asking what the last poster (whose questions have nothing to do with your rant) hopes to achieve by venting here. nothing more, nothing less, no matter how the people here like labelling other members.
And he still keeps dodging the question.
Quoted from frankmac:If you were not being spoken to directly then no one has to answer to you directly.
Well that's the end of general conversation, and certainly the end of the internet forum concept anyway.
WhereDoTheyFindThemPunkin
Quoted from gold1:Nothing seems to have changed here.I do have a question around the Haggis account details?After Haggis changed their online details my account stopped showing my Mermaid deposit.On speaking to them they assured me all is good.My deposit seems to be in cyberspace.Anyone else have this issue?
When i paid all my payments on the three machines i've ordered so far i have been emailed a receipt from Angela.
Did you not get one?
Quoted from John_I:I got no receipt when I ordered my game. No email at all from Haggis. Period. I did get an email from paypal or I would have no receipt from the original purchase. Who is Angela?
You people still act like i own the company.
Are you truly telling me you sent someone thousands of dollars and didn't get a receipt...and now you are getting worried a couple years later?.... 
Wanna buy a bridge?
Can't be fucked going back through the thread to see when you posted your order number, which you wouldn't get without a receipt.
FuckingPeopleWillSayAnythingPunkin
Quoted from John_I:No, I am responding to you posting ONE POST ABOVE MINE saying that you got receipts for all of your orders. I never did. What is so hard to understand about that exchange? Sheesh.
I was eventually able to log in to the Haggis website months later and get my order number and post it here. Not sure how that fucks anything.
Two years later? I have known all along since before I ordered the game that they weren't answering my emails and their customer support is the worst in the industry and I still ordered because I want a new Fathom. Bad customer service or not, I have always had reasonable confidence that I will eventually get my game and it will be very nice.
I have to say John, that i would not have just sent money and not got a receipt. My accountant would not have accepted it either.
But the due diligence stuff is years ago mate. I have emailed receipts for every cent i have sent and if you have not, then maybe you should not be in charge of large sums of money......
Quoted from HAL9OOO:I want to insure Haggis receives the funds. Not a third party mate.
How do you pay bills other times when you can't pay cash? How do you pay your distrubutor for other pinball machines?
Hell, how did you pay your deposit?
I'm not really following here. What third party?
Quoted from Travahontas:The manual plunger was still too weak, but I shoved a nut in the rubber tip to effectively lengthen the shooter rod and it plunges well now. On the flipper that only sticks when operated electrically but never sticks when operated manually... The Stern coil stops we had didn't fit, but I did have an extra WMS linkage, so I swapped that in to try it and it's no longer sticking (will forever remain a mystery I guess). One little feedback to Haggis would be to try not to crush the flipper clamps all the way together (all three were this way) because it actually makes the return spring resting length shorter and reduces the return spring force somewhat (it also makes it much more challenging, if not impossible, to reuse the linkage in the future). Less return spring force makes the flippers feel lethargic and less tolerant to stickiness. I think their flipper shafts are so smooth and polished that the standard WMS clamps are having a hard time grabbing them, so, long term, I'd ask the flipper supplier for a rougher flipper shaft surface finish so they don't have to clamp it so hard. Interestingly, the coil sleeve was also slightly too short to help align the coil, but I think I got the alignment close enough to centered... and working is working.
Game shoots super nicely (and obviously looks incredible) and everything seems to be in order!
My PB Alien and all my CGC games are the same.
The supplier of Williams style clamps makes clamps made of pot metal. They are all the same and there is a solution.
Quoted from Brk_oth:It's a great fun game but we would not recommend it for location play, only home use, unless you run a location that is monitored during all opening hours by a pinball tech. To keep it playable in a location environment requires a very hands on approach. It cannot be just placed on a site and forgotten about until the coin box is emptied. But if you can keep it going it is a very fun game that looks incredibly awesome!
My local operator mate won't operate anything but a Stern. Asked him today to pick up LoV and he shook his head.
I know what you mean, i have three Spooky's.
Quoted from John_I:Is not the thickness, it's the centers being cut out so only the edges get colored.
Can you just take it off and then have the clearance for it to roll off?
Quoted from John_I:Now that they are getting down to the short strokes on Fathom production, here is a question: has anyone ever seen a Fathom Classic edition? Have they shown one publicly or in private at the factory?
To me this is interesting and not just because I ordered a Classic. Think about a few things. They sold 250 Mermaids and *maybe* 15 or 20 Classics? Do they really want to take the time and money to engineer a new version for only 15 games? I'm not just talking about polished vs brushed cabinet trim metal. The Classic is supposed to have no apron displays and a single display inside the coin door for diagnostics. To me it would be easier and cheaper just to build 15 more Mermaids and not support two separate software sets along with the other mechanical differences.
While I am asking questions, I will also speculate that this logic explains the Classic "Plus" upgrade to the 2.0 software and apron displays that was offered a while back. This cost $1500 AUD, but I'm guessing that the few people who didn't pony up the money for this upgrade will get it anyway for free. Plus upgrade buyers did Haggis a favor if you think about it.
I played both at Pinfest on release two years ago, there'd be photo's in this thread.
I played both Centaurs this year.
They'llSayAnythingPunkin
Quoted from Pinchild:Haggis responded quick!
All good now.
Thanks Haggis Stunningly Beautiful Machine
So where were the keys?
Quoted from dscapo:Have you been contacted yet for the balance owed?
Yes. Paid in late September. Same time as i put the deposit on Beast
Quoted from EasternBloc:My flippers slip a lot as well and have since it arrived. Haven’t bit the bullet yet on precisions due to cost, but probably will at some point.
Can't cough up the .1% cost increase over the price of the game?
Quoted from Haymaker:Shouldn't have to.
He doesn't have to, and nobody said he does. He can put up with the flippers slipping if he likes.
Exact same clamps on all the systems that use Bally style. The new ones are shit and twist up like pretzels. This is how they come on all new games, so it's not that Haggis got special fucked up ones made for them, as you'd like to make out. The ones on my Alien machines were the same before i moved to precisions, and so was my CGC remake AFMr.
Quoted from SKWilson:The Bally-style flippers with keyed shafts and clamps (pawls) from Precision Pinball are very nice, yet expensive. I'm very happy with them.
$120? People are spending thousands on toppers and hundreds on stupid toys to put in their games. Something that makes the game so much better for most people and $120 is exe? Lucky you don't have to pay the conversion and shipping to Australia then.
I think they are worth every cent.
Quoted from Haymaker:Imagine saying, with 100% confidence, that a brand new game should come with flippers that slip and thats perfectly fine and acceptable (no matter who is making it). "No big deal mate, just drop a couple hundred on an aftermarket set of flippers." wow.
Precision flippers are awesome. They should not be a required upgrade.
Who said that? Who said that a new game should come with flippers that slip?
You sir, are a liar and a shitstirrer.
The bloke said his flippers are slipping and i said there is a way to fix that.
That is all, up until you stuck your big shitstirring shovel and tried to attribute comments or assertions that were never made.
Quoted from SKWilson:If only they were $120! Flippers were $220 (3 flippers) and keyed shafts/clamps were $102 ($34x3) for a total of $333.50 with shipping. That's not a small amount. ($322 USD = $489.74 AUD not including shipping)
I see $168 for 3 flipper set. $120 was a guess, but there you go.
Quoted from tbutler6:This is not the right kit-I also purchased the PFS for “Haggis Fathom”. Highly recommend but difficult install due to trough and opto boards. Take your time. Shawn’s price was 100% correct
Goodo, even still it seems good value to me. Thanks for the info, i'll need it when i get my game.
It's a wild take to say that because i recognise the fact that something happens, i am somehow supportive of it or that i am declaring it should be so.
I recognise the fact that there are natural disasters that happen, it doesn't mean i am saying they should happen, just that they do.
Quoted from flynnibus:never mind no new games are using 'bally style' flippers. So his typical 'nothing to see here... ' arguments - its just all smoke.
We aren't talking about the flippers, as you know damn well while you obfuscate. There's your typical real smoke.
We are talking about the shaft clamp.
I offered a solution to a problem. It's not the only solution, but it's damn sure better than putting up with slipping flippers.
Quoted from flynnibus:Which should be obvious that there are different clamps for different flipper mech designs. Williams, stern, DE, bally, etc all use different styles.
"Exact same clamps on all the systems that use Bally style. The new ones are shit and twist up like pretzels. This is how they come on all new games"
The game doesn't even use Bally style flipper mechs - they are WPC style with just bally style bats. And it's not all WPC paws that are problematic, it's just the ones JJP has been sourcing. So no, it's not every game, nor all turning to pretzels. So no, it's not just how all new games are.
Correct, Stern ones are fine.
The ones i mentioned are all shit, as is JJP as you pointed out.
So pick me up on a detail if you like, my point was, and still is that it's not restricted to Haggis (as you just agreed), and one way to solve it is to replace the clamp.
One rock solid, sure way to solve it is fitting Precisions with D shafts. That is what i pointed out.
Quoted from flynnibus:Or put much simpler... the only known problematic flipper paws out there are JJP... and now maybe Haggis if we believe your assessment of normal Haggis behavior.
It's not my assessment, there you go again attributing words to me that i didn't type in order to make your aggressive points.
I have problematic flipper pawls (as i said in the first place) on machines from pinball Brothers and CGC.
So your statement is false and misleading as well as you are trying to attribute things to me.
The fact remains that i offered a solution. You have only come in to rubbish and disparage your fellow pinsiders about details and assumed intentions, not a solution in sight from you.
Quoted from Stargeezer:Thank you all. I have ordered the Precision flipper option. Kit for 3 flippers. Will give feedback.
Installed these yet?
Quoted from Grantman:You should ask in the other thread where people have paid in full up to a year ago and still haven't received their games and don't have an estimate of when they will receive them:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jaws-by-haggis-pinball/page/137#post-8020968
You should keep your rabble rousing out of the owners thread.
Quoted from Stargeezer:I put in the Precision flippers. Nice looking anf good quality. The problem is the pawls. Ordered new ones as the flippers slipped- we'll see. Haven't even gotten to play yet- pity.
Yeah. i'd recommend the d shaped shafts, problem solved forever.
Quoted from Grantman:That's why I provided a link to the other thread. It's as if you don't want anyone to see honest feedback about this pinball company. Why is that?
All the owners here know where the drama thread is if they want to avail themselves of your style of entertainment or act out 'holding people responsible' as you call it by having rants.
If they want to rally to your cause of bitching on pinside then they will do so.
Please keep the bile in one place and not in the owners thread.
Quoted from georgia:He owns a fathom as much as you own a fathom punkin. Give him a break.
It's not about whether he owns a Fathom or not. My request is to keep the bile about the company's business practices in one place and to keep it out of the owners thread where we are here to talk about the machine.
Give us all a break, hey?
Quoted from georgia:Its a "fathom owners thread". If you consider yourself a fathom owner just for having a paid deposit, then he certainly is too. I think he has actually paid in full. Have you? You can't tell him to not post here.
I haven't told any owners not to post here, please keep the lies and arguments in the other thread.
I am asking that the Fathom Owners thread be about the Haggis Fathom, nothing more, nothing less.
Please stop being antagonistic and twisting events.
Quoted from jetmechinnc:I am considering buying a fathom that's local and was reading through this thread. The issue with the game locking up during single and or multiplayer games, is this a hit and miss with games (hardware), or a specific fault in the code that needs to be addressed that effects everyone? I checked Haggis's website and I see no code update ever for Fathom, only Celts. The codes under Fathom are listed as Celts 3-5-2023 and 11-21-2022.
Is this an issue that you would stay away from purchasing the game prior to a fix?
Also, what is the boot up time approximately for the game? When I added the upgrade to my Funhouse with the FAST board set, it took just over a minute to fully boot up (not fast). This was a driving factor to sell the game actually since Sterns and JJP games seem to take under 30 seconds to boot up.
Thank you,
One of the fathom updates is listed as Celts apparently.
Celts does indeed take a while to load, so if waiting one or two minutes is a major deal to you, then it's not the machine for you.
As afar as the lock up issue you are asking after, Fast has just announced in the hype thread that they are working in conjunction with Haggis to address it.
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Woolgoolga
Fort Worth, TX