Don’t argue “who has the risk.”” Just tell him no, come pick up your game. Or end the deal.
People try this every once in a while, I have never agreed to deliver a game unless -I- suggested it, because I was on my way somewhere else.

LOL still you know what I mean.

you know better than anyone its pay now, get the game when its delivered. Unless you are picking it up yourself then its pay and take it now. Either way, they aren't moved until cash is fully paid out.

The seller should decide how they will be paid, or no deal. Don't let the customer decide your business terms.

I will routinely deliver games with just a non refundable deposit.

I wouldn’t for 14 games.

His request doesn’t seem too unreasonable really but if you aren’t comfortable with it find someone else to sell the games to. Not your first rodeo, you know this.

Not saying the guy is crazy but Me, I just would never spend all that time and effort driving without all the money. So I would either say no, or pay me, or come get the games yourself, or arrange shipping yourself.

The more expensive pinballs get, the more you will be dealing with people who want more from you than you are willing to give.

I've had to blink in disbelief at several deals similar to this.

Some I've gone through with, sometimes I've backed out.

At the end of the day, all deals are done by looking the other guy in the eye and shaking his hand.

If you don't think this guy is legit, trust your instincts.

If you think he's legit, he's just asking more from you than what you were initially thinking to give... well, I usually go through with those deals, and have been burned only rarely.

I always figure I'll have to work harder and pay more than I expect to get anything done. (shrugs).

Trust your instincts on this one.

Aren’t there freight companies that will ship expensive items domestically but will only release them if the seller instructs them to (=after full payment)?

That’s how it works with international FCL and LCL shipments and B/L releases.

Your shipment seems $$$$$$ so maybe there’s an intermediary that provides some security?

Have the buyer use some kind of escrow service with payment in full or have him or someone else pick them up.

Too much risk on your part to deliver.

The only way I see this working is if he wires you the $5K. I don’t trust PayPal to not try to get it back.

You also need to make it non-refundable. if you show up and he changes his mind, you get to keep the deposit to cover your time/gas/hotel.

When a deal goes stinky, I usually change the deal. I'd pull delivery out of the deal and let him know he can come pick them up.

If I was buying 14 games from you, I'd come over and see exactly what I'm buying. I'd also be looking for an escrow company. For one game, I can handle it. But a big deal like that would mean I wouldn't want either one of us to have to trust each other.

I'd say the 5k is a non-refundable deposit applied to the purchase price on delivery (paid in full in cash). If you get there and he tries to modify the agreement you just got paid 5k for your efforts.

This, of course, is if you are willing to do something like this. Otherwise cash on the glass and he can rent a truck to haul them home

I’d run the “non-refundable deposit” idea past your attorney. No one will bother fighting about $100 bucks but they might over $5k. And find out which state laws apply too. Would be a hassle if you have to go to FL to defend yourself.

good point!

A few ideas here:

1. PayPal friends and family can be reversed if you use your debit card to pay.
2. Wire transfers can be cancelled,and can often be reversed several days after your online accurate changes from pending way to finalized wt. Go to your local bank and ask for details. Once you’ve received a wire transfer, go to your bank and verify that it can’t be reversed. Best bet is to set up a savings account at the bank where you have your checking. Make sure there is NO overdraft. Share the savings account wire info, receive the payment and transfer it to checking after your bank has verified in person at your branch that it can’t be reversed.
3. You have something rare that he wants, so why are you letting him dictate the terms?

Tell him full payment via wire transfer before you release the pins, and he has to arrange transportation.

Or you could use escrow.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-not-get-ripped-off-in-pinball-vids-guide

Sorry John, #2 doesn’t work like that. The bank can take it out of any account you have if there is a loss in another account.

I'd pull out of the deal
you are not comfortable with it, and it is a lot of work to pack up and move these games such a distance

Someone locally will buy the games one by one

If it were me buying 14 games, I would make the flight to come see games or grab a 5 ton and do the drive myself.

Exactly. Unfortunately, it sounds like this other guy wants everyone else to do all the work.

Sounds like bs. You hold the games, you set the terms.

You’ve got games he wants. You politely set the terms you’re comfortable with and he can take it or leave it.
You are Captain Neo!

Don’t forget that

Its Florida... what could go wrong??

Sounds like too much work to be selling these games. Hard pass for me.

You have the reputation. You should be able to dictate the terms of sale.

If it’s me, I’m doing a hell of a lot of reputation investigating before thinking about any unusual terms.

And if, God forbid, something happens to the games between your house and his (destroyed/stolen/other), what then? Who is considered the owner? Who takes the loss?

I would only accept bank wire or Zelle only, and it needs to be received before you arrive. 100% of money.

I know I am "totally crazy" for doing this but I deliver machines all the time to people with ZERO deposit or payment and it has always worked out fine for me. I tell customers right up front if they back out for any reason I still expect to get paid for my fuel for the trip.

I can understand both sides of the story here but if it was me I would do it with the understanding if he doesn't take the machines the $5k is yours to keep.

I have three basic rules when I deliver machines to anyone. First rule is - I only go as far as your driveway. Second rule - if you don't take the machine I still get paid for my fuel. And last rule all money HAS TO BE CASH.

In your case I wouldn't think your truck rental, fuel cost, etc would exceed $5k. I know there is a heck of a lot of time & work involved but I also understand the other side of the story.

Bottom line is sometimes you have to "take a chance" to make a sale. Some people feel like the risk is worth it other people don't want to take that risk. In the end it is between the two of you but in my eyes $5k non-refundable deposit and selling 14 machines at once is worth the risk. But everyone has their own level of risk they are willing to take.

I wouldn't drive that long in my life but under these terms, I would expect the guy to inspect all the games, and then nitpick every little detail and low ball you for the balance. Do it on your terms.

I have had this tried the last two sales.

One with Shadow, it all worked out fine, but I was VERY cautious/realized the risk I was taking.

Second with CTFBL, and it's a long story but I suggested it as it worked out fine with Shadow. As 3 weeks went by before the deal was canceled, I was no longer comfortable with it.

To all you new people entering the hobby, PAY UP FRONT, or don't buy expensive toys. We have been doing this for decades this way (pay in full up front).

Don't bother. Cash up front or he can move on.

I can see how and why the buyer might feel there’s a high risk. But he must also understand the amount of risk/time/costs you’ll be committing to this deal too. If I was in your position I’d calculate a fair non refundable deposit value that covers my time and costs and give him a rationale out why. If that’s $5000 then I think he either needs to accept it or move on to another deal. Doubt that many sellers would be willing to make a long distance delivery like you are here.

Unless he is covering all expenses for this delivery, it sounds like this trip may not be worth the trouble. Especially if he is not 100% on board with your terms.

cash on glass!!! Too much risk for all parties. I was part of a bad deal, sucked for all parties involved. Would not have happened had the buyer picked up the game himself.

Why get rid of the games? Too big of an offer to refuse? Maybe its one of those too good enough to be true If that's the case, yet you're doing all the work. You're driving down there. If guy is buying all those games, it seems to me like he has enough money to afford those expenses

He can reserve a uhaul truck one way, fly to you with the cash. Or reserve the uhaul truck, drive up with cash, load the games and tow his car back with a uhaul car carrier.

I don’t see this guy doing any of these things so I’d just politely say no thanks.

Just from your initial post, red flags on this deal, you’d be wise to pass. It would be different if it was someone you knew, but not a stranger, with that magnitude of a deal.

Your own personal time and effort are worth more, than what you’ll get out of this deal.

Let’s paint a picture: You get 14 machines ready for transport, rent the U-Haul, drive 1200+ miles to get there, and he decides to offer you less than agreed, after seeing them in person. Now you’re tired, worn down, and really don’t want to trek 14 machines back. Are you going to take less money now, or go through the hassle of taking everything back?

It’s potentially putting you in a bad spot once you arrive.

Unless he’s paying $10K over the total price of the machines, it’s just not worth the time. My 2 cents.....

I’d load up and drive the games for a sum of money (non refundable) worth my time and effort with expectation to turn the entire load around and drive it all back and unpack it.

If a deal is made when you get there (no haggling) then unload it all and get back home with even more money and a lighter load. Either way you are making money if the deal goes through or not.

One other thing and I know everyone has been saying it for years… The market is about to crash, not just on pinball machines but all things extra. I’d question myself, if I wanted to sit on things and deny money now vs sit on things that can’t be sold or have to be severely discounted later. The entire world economy is very shaky and US inflation is ridiculous.

Not to be doom and gloom, but nobody likes sitting on high value items they don’t care for when they have to take a loss to be rid of them. It’s a different story if you love your machines regardless of the market value of them.

Dude .... you Got an amazing collection of Zacarias... keep em !!

never. whether its one or more.

There's probably not going to be too many people willing to buy a large collection like this, so I imagine there might have to be a little flexibility to ensure both parties are reasonably happy.

Maybe write up a short contract of some sort?

--------

The buyer will pay the seller a non-refundable deposit of $x. If the buyer decides not to proceed with the sale for any reason, the deposit will be forfeit, and the seller will keep the full amount of the deposit. If the seller decides to not proceed with the sale prior to arrival at the buyer's location, the seller will refund the buyer's deposit in full.

The seller will transport the 14 pinball machines to the seller's location. The seller will plan to arrive on ?/?/?, barring any inclement weather or traffic conditions, or other unforeseen circumstances. If the seller does not arrive within a reasonable number of days of the agreed upon delivery date (or a mutually agreed upon rescheduled delivery date), the seller will return the buyer's deposit and the sale will be cancelled.

Upon arrival at they buyer's location, and upon inspection of the games by the buyer, the buyer will be expected to pay the remaining amount in cash of $z. The full amount will be expected to be paid to the seller before the games can be moved into any structures at the buyer's location.

If any of the games were physically damaged in a catastrophic way (beyond minor dings/scratches or small malfunctions) upon arrival at the buyer's location, and this catastrophic damage was not present in the photos of the game presented to the buyer prior to transportation, the buyer can negotiate on the price of the damaged game, and/or remove the damaged game from the sale. Otherwise, the full amount will be owed to the seller.

If the buyer is unsatisfied during inspection and does not wish to proceed with the sale, the deposit will be forfeit, and the seller will keep the full amount of the deposit.

I've used escrow.com for two machine sales...It pricey, around 130.00 or so for a machine ...it depends on the total value. Whats nice about it is they have all the money, so if there are delays in shipping, you're not getting spooked about the deal going bad...it does require some set up of your account. Long distance deals always frought with some trepidation .

That’s crazy. Just use basic contracts and bank wires.

Who's the buyer in Florida?

Too many devils in the details. Just sell the games at mgc.