(Topic ID: 105364)

Gunsmoke EM machine start up problem

By Gunsmoke

9 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 9 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Gunsmoke
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#1 9 years ago

I have a Chicago Coin Gunsmoke EM machine (circa 1968, serial number 8122) that I recently picked up. I have a schematic I picked up from e-bay. Right now the machine is having problems when booting up. The score does not always reset to zero on players A or B and the ball count advances 1 thru 5 and goes to game over.

While trouble shooting using the schematic, I realized it is not exactly the one for my machine. The schematic appears to have extra leaf switches at various relay positions my machine does not have (or ever had originally). Does anyone know where I can locate/purchase the correct schematic and/or service manual for this machine?

Also, does anyone know what the proper sequence is for boot up for this machine?

Lastly, before I invest a lot of time and energy into reviving this machine, approximately how much is this machine worth in this condition and also in a restored condition?

Thanks.

#2 9 years ago

(guessing this was the one in LA for sale recently? Looked nice.)

Is the schematic labeled as being for Chicago Coin's Gun Smoke? There apparently was a version for export to Italy, but is probably rare to find here.

pbresource.com may be the best bet at finding another copy of the schematic (they don't list them all individually; will have to call or email them to ask).

Would guess as-is it's in the $200-$300 range; restored maybe double that. Really depends on the cosmetic condition. Chicago Coin pins aren't typically in high demand though.

#3 9 years ago

Thanks for the quick response. The schematic is definitely marked as CC Gun Smoke. I noticed that it does not list serial numbers that might help identify the differences I am finding between my machine and the schematic.

This machine is not the Italian version. I read a blog about the Italian machines that were exported around this time. To confirm that this machine is not an Italian export, I was able to check the score glass for the Italian mark that would have been near the top right corner along with an extra solenoid near the ball saver area. My machine does not have either of these.

I will look into the pbresource.com you suggested. Thanks.

If CC pins are not typically in high demand, how does CC pins stack up among the competitors of that era and overall?

I appreciate the insight.

#4 9 years ago
Quoted from Gunsmoke:

If CC pins are not typically in high demand, how does CC pins stack up among the competitors of that era and overall?
I appreciate the insight.

Not very well. They were basically the 4th best manufacturer at the time. Very few people think much of the artwork style they used, even though some of the art was done by artist famous on other brands. Nor, did they typically do anything spectacular as far as playfield features go.

Originally, I always wanted to own a Gunsmoke due to both the name and the Gunsmoke button feature. It is similar to either a motorized flash bonus sequence like Bally used on some games or Spin and Score like on some Gottlieb games. But, with Gunsmoke, it is under your control to try to stop the light at the highest score. But now, I have gotten over the "want" and glad I never found one locally (one just showed up on CL for only $200 but I still passed). The funny thing about that is one of the ones I played as a kid (Magic Mountain) had a carriage bolt in place of the button. This was because the ball would fall in the hole and then wait forever for the player to push the Gunsmoke button. Many never did and just walked away thinking the game was broken. So, they defeated the one good feature about the game.

Casino is another old one that many people find rather fun due to the spinning disc like on Fireball. Much later, when there was another HUGE purchasing boom by operators, games like Blue Max/Red Baron and Hollywood/Cinema made good money and they sold a lot of them. Blue Max for the spinners that everyone loved to bang away at (even though they didn't spin very well compared to other brands). And Hollywood for the in line kick out holes. But by then, the build quality had gone way down for CCD (Come on - A Nutone Door Bell unit to replace the chimes!!! UGG). So many of us don't even want to work on them since the same bad parts are usually worn on all the games so needed parts are often hard to find.

#5 9 years ago

I appreciate the insight. This is my first pb machine. I am new to this hobby and need to learn a lot. It is too bad the CCD cut corners on their quality. I am still impressed by the relative complexity of the EM type machine.

I contacted pbresource.com like you suggested. And like you suggested I plan to follow up with a phone call with the point of contact they provided. They were quick on their response time. Seemed to be a good group.

I believe your pricing is spot on. It is almost not worth refurbishing due to the time required and the limited parts available.

Until I find out if the proper tech data is available for this machine, would the start up routine for this machine be similar to other makes and models? If so, can you tell me what I should expect when I start up the machine?

Also, if pbresource does not have my tech data, do you know if this machine's features are similar enough to other CCD machines? If so, I may be able find/use that tech data in place of my machine.

#6 9 years ago

Usually, technical design didn't vary too much on games made around the same time (same manufacturer). So, if you go to www.ipdb.org and then do an advance search, select Chicago Coin in the manufacturers pull down, and then search, you will get all the machines they made. Then, click on the top index tab for DATE and it will resort them from earliest to oldest. This will give you some more titles to look at made around the same time as Gunsmoke.

The coin credit, game reset, and standard scoring features should closely match as long as you are looking at a 2 player vs a 4 player or a single player game. There is where the design will change dramatically. But, as long as your schematic is for a CC Gunsmoke, it should match very closely.
I don't think CCD called out the reset sequence like others did in later years. And it doesn't appear anyone has gotten around to writing about it on pinwiki.com. I has been far too many years since I had my head in a CCD game so I can't lend much help about the start up sequence other than to study another schematic I might have.

Twinky, 9 months earlier also used the gunsmoke flash light feature so it may match fairly closely. the playfields even look rather similar and they are both 2 player games.

BTW, you might notice that CCD didn't design a lot of pinballs around that era. This is mostly due to the fact that their factory was busy makings some rather good arcade pieces for which their mechanical engineering was well suited.

#7 9 years ago

If I remember correctly, on CC machines of that era, if a scoring switch is stuck in the 'on' position, it could score the point, go to the next ball, score the point, etc. until game over. When it advances from ball to ball is there one score reel in particular (one, ten, hundred point) that scores? That might give a clue to narrowing down the number of switches to check.

I don't remember if a stuck scoring switch could interrupt the reset sequence and do the same.
I do remember once working on a CC game though where a stuck scoring switch on the playfield caused the game to advance from ball to ball until game over when the ball hit the outhole.

#8 9 years ago

Cactus Jack, thanks for the lead on how to search for machines that may be similar to mine. I will look into it. I was hoping that the start sequence would be similar to other machines from that era or make.
How do I read up on the Twinky gunsmoke flash light scenario you mentioned in your blog?

#9 9 years ago
Quoted from FrankJ:

When it advances from ball to ball is there one score reel in particular (one, ten, hundred point) that scores? That might give a clue to narrowing down the number of switches to check.

The Player A "ones" advances while the machine is start up. It typically comes around to 0000 and then jumps to 0013 or so and goes straight to game over. The start up does not seem the affect Player B at all. Also, the start up seems to take a long time before it goes to game over.

I'm trying to figure out what relays/switches are interacting so I can possibly find the culprit(s). You are correct, I have notice some scoring switches under the playfield. I cannot remember the name of the relay right now.

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