(Topic ID: 18942)

Guns N Roses - Two Issues

By FrizzleFried

11 years ago


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#1 11 years ago

Hello... I have a GNR that has two issues remaining for me to figure out and I need some help.

The first issue I have is that my credit count increases as I play the game. It appears that when certain switches are hit (example - pop bumpers), I get a 1/2 credit... but it's not just pop bumpers or I'd think maybe it's a vibration... nope...when I hit the "R" ramp switch, I get the 1/2 credit (1 coin). I've disconnected both coin switches. Any idea where I should start or what I should be looking for?

The second issue I have is that my magnets aren't working. If I install the 3 fuses under the playfield, the F9 fuse blows in the backbox ...

Oh... and a small issue just cropped up... the top 1/2 of the backbox GI went out... I am guessing it's a connector issue... I just gotta trace the wires... anyone know what connector I'd be looking for by chance?

THANKS!!

#3 11 years ago

Re: the credit issue.

I am new at this... looking at the switch matrix page in the manual logic (to me) would dictate that the issue would be in a single column or row... and it does seem to be a single column causing the issue... but not every switch in that column.

Testing... I found that the BOTTOM TURBO BUMPER (26) causes a credit... as do both the left and right BOTTOM SLINGSHOTS (28 and 29). The LEFT TURBO BUMPER (25) does nothing... and the RIGHT TURBO BUMPER (27) does nothing in game but will actually cause a game to start if not in game?!?

I can find no other switches that cause issues thus far that I can find.

What does that tell you?

#4 11 years ago

RE: Magnet issue... how does one check if a magnet is bad? Start pulling one fuse at a time from under to see which causes the blow?

THANKS BTW....

#5 11 years ago

OK... i just confirmed... it's that row (Q52)...

25 causes a tilt
26 causes the 4th coin to credit
27 causes the credit button to be hit

etc...

What do I look for now? Sorry for the newb questions... it's just the for pins... I'm still pretty much a newb.

THANKS!

#9 11 years ago

I do believe the game worked fine for a few games before it started with the credit issue. I am about 90% sure of it... perhaps checking the diodes would be a good start?

#15 11 years ago

OK... I checked every switch I could find and there are none crossed. The coin door slam switch was clipped but that shouldn't be a problem?

Keep in mind I don't know what I am talking about... BUT... LOGIC tells me problem isn't with the white wires hooked up to the diodes.. but rather with the green / yellow striped wire (driver). Why? Because every one of the switches with issues are on the same green/yellow stripe driver line ...

Again... I have no idea what I am talking about... just throwing it out there...

Now, i did bust out the meter and checked a number of diodes (in circuit...yes, I know... not terrible reliable) but they all metered out as normal... most metered at .614 or so but one was down at like .585... but I figured that was normal especially in circuit?

99% of the underside looks untouched ...and really only one switch looked like it was re-soldered and I triple checked that one out and it looked/metered fine.

Post edited by FrizzleFried : Changed RETURN to DRIVER

#16 11 years ago

UPDATE: I just figured out how the switch test works ... and guess what happens when I push the affected switches?

Each switch runs through a gambit of switches... some 4 ... some 5 or 6 ... so clicking the bottom pop bumper, for example, gives credit for the pop bumper... and credit for another switch... and a third... and a fourth finally ending with the credit switch at column 1.

This happens for each affected switch:

3 pop bumpers
2 slingshots (and likely the 3rd... I cant get to it to test as it's under plexi (captive)).

#17 11 years ago

EDIT: According to the old data east repair guide ... it looks like I have a SWITCH COLUMN SHORTED TO GROUND. It explains how to find the short. Sound about right?

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#19 11 years ago

I am a little confused. LTG/Mark say it's a diode issue or short in the white wires. According to the Data East "guide" it appears it's a SWITCH COLUMN shorted to ground... and the switch column is the green/yellow circuit not hooked up to the diode.

SO... is it a diode issue or do I have a ground issue on the return line?

#21 11 years ago

...and I guess i'm left with removing the leg of each diode until I find the bad one? Start from the top and work my way to the bottom? Any hint on where to begin or am I looking at a total random situation?

This is what the guide says about what I suggest:

"Switch column shorted to ground.
When a column wire is shorted to ground, and any switch in that column is closed, the switch test will show ALL switches in the ROW of the closed switch as being closed. If no switches are closed, the switch test will show no switches closed."

The reason I'd suspected this issue is this is EXACTLY what is going on. When I press any button in column 5... it registers every switch on that row...

#23 11 years ago

Man.... I've tested EVERY darned diode and have found nothing wrong.

So on a hunch I figured I could eliminate a short in the wiring if I ran a lead from the Green/Yellow pin on the CPU board out to see what would happen if I "replaced" the return wiring.

Unfortunately the very same thing happens as with the original wiring in place. If I touch the white/red ... every switch from the white/red row fires... for example.

SO... does that mean there is a short on the PCB? It DOES have some damage that has been repaired before... or am I back to hunting a bad diode still?

#25 11 years ago

I finally had some time to go check out the transistors. First off, they all read about .820 to .830 on each leg... not .4 to .6... EXCEPT for the 4th transistor from the right... with reads .09 or so on one leg and .085 or so on the other leg... This transistor also happens to match up with the 4th pin of the connector below it I do believe... which happens to be the problematic Green w/yellow stripes driver line! I think we're getting somewhere.

Question: Do these transistors just go out... or is there likely some other issue that caused it to go out? I think I'll pick up a few to have in stock and see what just replacing it does...

Opinions?

#28 11 years ago

Can any diode work or do I need a specific one (should I pull one from the playfield for example)?

I have a smaller one handy... but I want to say it only reads like .150 on the meter.

#29 11 years ago

Actually... I've already done this (sort of). I ran a lead from the affected Green/Yellow pin ... to various points under the playfield and each one caused the same multiple switch effect... regardless of where I went with it. That tells me the problem is in the board. Amazingly RADIO SHACK of all places actually has the transistor available... I'll go overpay for 3 or 4 and swap one out.

I'm reading they are very sensitive to heat...

#31 11 years ago

Yeah... I'm a vid guy... I should have no problems and will use a clip on heatsink...

#33 11 years ago

Very happy to report that it was, indeed, the transistor and the game is now playing as normal... aside from my magnet issue.

#35 11 years ago

yeah... the magnets aren't working... blow F9. I have some some parts on their way to rebuild the magnet board... sounds like a common issue with GnR from looking around.

What I'd love to find is a solution to the playfield wear the Axl hole causes... I don't want to use mylar.

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