(Topic ID: 278459)

Guns N' Roses...It's here!

By pin2d

3 years ago


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Post #891 Featurette video. Posted by Coz (3 years ago)

Post #897 Full song list Posted by pinball_keefer (3 years ago)

Post #958 All 3 versions of playfields side by side. Posted by sevenrites (3 years ago)

Post #1172 Keith clarifies Coma rule Posted by pinball_keefer (3 years ago)


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31
#1599 3 years ago
Quoted from HighVoltage:

Why is everyone a skeleton? Did the artist think this is heavy metal? Or is this related to something in their Not in This Lifetime tour?
Disclaimer: anything I know about GnR, I learned in the 80s...

They had a small record back in the 80s, you probably never heard of it, called Appetite for Destruction. It's a little obscure, but clearly the artist really dug back into the vaults to find the skeleton theme.

71H9ZR6EGFL._SL1400_ (resized).jpg71H9ZR6EGFL._SL1400_ (resized).jpg

All snark aside, this is the best looking game JJP has made so far, to me. Really top notch presentation. A little hilarious that the main 'toy' is exactly the same as Avengers, pretty funny timing, but not Eric's fault. It's a record, it makes sense.

The Standard looks pretty meh, too stripped down, and the price jump for 'real' game is crazy town to me. But this is Pinside, so of course people are plopping down the cash without even seeing gameplay yet, let alone trying it themselves. Keefer on code, just oozing with love in the presentation, I doubt anyone will get burned by that honestly. But you'd never see me spending that kind of money without at least some real sessions with the flippers in my hand.

Regardless, whether it's a OMG TOP TEN game or not once you actually play it, this is clearly a winner just as far as putting together a hell of a package. I haven't been a GNR fan since I was like 13, but I had that AFD poster above on my wall as a kid, and this game does justice to how I think about the band.

It's about time JJP had a game with attitude!

#2196 3 years ago

Watched an hour of the stream. I want to say nothing but good things about so much of it, really an A-class effort from the whole JJP team, very impressive looking game with so much attention to detail. Not gonna lie, it makes my Metallica LE look pretty barebones.

But ... after the initial newness of the game wears off I think I'd probably have more fun playing any single-ball Crank It Up vs the endless multiball I saw this evening.

Add-a-balls were flowing like wine, the ball saver seemed like it was stuck on, and it was just a stream of balls flying everywhere. Probably a lot of fun for casual players and location play, you'll get your money's worth even if you're not a great player.

Someone is going to say "just turn off ball saver in settings, or don't lock balls" but this is just clearly how the game is meant to be played. The modes are built for it. The power chord super jackpot is a great idea, but it's just part of that "lots of multiball" thinking the game seems structured around. Even the risk reward it has add-a-ball built into the risk side. Not a lot of risk when you're giving me another ball to offset it. Kinda kills some of the tension.

Coma is a very JJP/Keefer idea, play a mode to save your ball, we've seen that before, but when it ended with yet another multiball I wasn't hyped about it, it was, well, just another multiball after I'd seen so many. Love the screen graphic with the hospital gurney and IV drip though.

I like multiball just fine, but I want to earn it and have it be a reward, not handed to me constantly. Just how I feel as a player, others might disagree.

Overall I really thought it looked like an incredible package. I'm not spending $10k on a pin, and if location play ever returns I'll be happy to get a shit ton of multiballs for my $1, so really not mad about it. But it did take some of the shine off watching it after a while, just not very interesting to see the modes when they all feel so similar with the number of balls flying around.

#2264 3 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

Not surprised to hear that folks are resounding this way about mb. Its the worst thing from my experience playing as well. Hopefully jjp cuts it down

It seems pretty baked into the fundamental rules of the game, everything is designed around it. Keefer is one of the programmer gods of the hobby, I'm sure he was very intentional about it. He's also a smart dude who could probably change it up, I'm just saying, don't count on it.

Quoted from iceman44:

I'm still VERY excited for the GNR CE coming my way because of the "experience", band support, assets and basically getting to play a GNR concert whenever i want to.

That seems like the right attitude. I'm still very impressed by the whole thing. I'm sure it's tons of fun.

Look, I can't lie, a lot of Keefer's games are brilliant but not for me. Too long. This might just be another one, just maybe for slightly different reasons. If you're a fan, or have a large collection, and you have the money? Why not. I'd like to play one when I get the chance.

But as much as JJP is really setting a high bar here I'd still rather flip a Keith Elwin game if I was looking for a new pin. Gameplay has to be the first consideration for me. These things are too damn expensive to not fully enjoy for a long while before I hit burnout. Everything else about GNR really top notch though.

And hey, maybe I'll play one and change my mind, I'm only going off of the endless multiball videos.

14
#2303 3 years ago

The only two band pins I've owned are Metallica (still have my LE, great game) and ACDC (had a Premium, enjoyed it, let it go as I downsized my collection to focus on other arcade hobbies).

There's a little of each game's DNA in GNR, but also just miles more stuff. I feel like comparing them not to play Stern vs JJP, but just to look at how things have changed and grown and influenced each other.

--

Clearly the pick a song, play its mode, cash out or keep building it up risk/reward owes a lot to ACDC. But I love that you don't just pick a song and play it and that's the game on GNR. In ACDC you're basically always in a song, GNR has a non-song structure around it, which I really like.

ACDC is also a very ... unlovely game. It's fun as hell, and has great attitude, but visually I don't think anyone thinks it's that killer of a package. GNR has the best art and total look of any JJP to me. I like the LE the best of the three.

The lower playfield on ACDC is eh, GNR's upper doesn't seem that amazing in and of itself as far as flipper action, but it's got so much more going on. The locks and ball paths make it much more interesting. Both are mini-playfields, for better or for worse, they slow the main action down, but at least with GNR you can play the main playfield simultaneously. With all the multi-balls that should happen a lot.

Where ACDC has a little of an edge is the bell and cannon are good interactive bits, GNR could have used just one more thing that interacted with the ball better. The spinning disc coming out at the same time as Avengers is an unfortunate coincidence.

Until I play GNR it's hard to compare, but the risk/reward thing seems less tense with all the ball saving multiballs, and the fact that the 'risk' option adds a ball. Seems a lot more safe, and probably won't have quite the tension ACDC has. But I think it makes up for it with the depth and other things to focus on.

ACDC has shit-all for actual band participation. It's got the songs and some Photoshop, that's it. Clear loser there.

--

Metallica is one of my all time favorite Sterns. It started the new era of hand-drawn art returning. It was the closest thing to an original theme Stern had done in ages. Fan layout, but lots of toys. Sparky having so much personality made him more than just a bash toy, but he's a great bash toy. The hammer is such a killer idea, love it still. Was a little big, but 30 of us have a mod to fix that ... The return of inline drops! The cross rising is whatever, but it's neat. The snake is a scoop, and a switch, at the same time. Love shots that change, the open or closed mouth really makes it cool.

Song integration is ... okay. You pick a song, but it doesn't mean much. The catalog is cool, it leans old school, which I appreciate, but it's kinda small. GNR just murders it with selection. I wish Metallica had 21 songs!

The band does callouts. Uh. It kinds sounds like GNR and Metallica are in the same boat with this one. Look, you're known for your music, not your voice acting, I get it.

Slash recording new music for GNR is amazing. Top tier band integration, hat(s) off.

The music in Metallica plays for certain modes, and that's cool, but again, mostly doesn't mean much most of the time. I like how GNR has the ability to pick new songs purposefully, and the way you can go after albums is really clever.

I see a big win for each game still on the board: For GNR it's just such an immersive package. My Metallica is nice, color DMD, LE backglass, all the stuff, but ... well it looks bare next to GNR's lightshow and big screens. It's a fun game that has a music theme, GNR is the full concert.

Metallica though has what I haven't seen yet on on GNR, and maybe it's hidden there, I haven't seen it all. Crank It Up. Just super creative single ball play. A killer playfield with great code modes and the tension is all one ball progression. It's surgical. Yeah, the game is wood choppy, and has it's own multiballs to grind, but Crank It Up is special. Code like that really makes it. If GNR can get some more taste of that I think it would go a long way.

#2441 3 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

Not sure if they can avoid the heavy multi ball. Whole game seems designed around it. IMO it is done to make sure players can hear more of the songs and make it to the album modes.

This.

After thinking about it more I've realized that basically every "downside" to the way the game is designed revolves around "let the player hear the songs".

This isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially if you're a GNR fan. From the straight up the middle scoop, to the multiballs and add-a-balls and generous ball saver everything about this game is in service of the music. And I think in same ways gameplay takes a backseat to that, and that's what people are responding to.

That's not to imply there's no depth or gameplay for more experienced players, I think you just have to frame your mindset around that thinking. If it sounds cool to you this is probably a great game. If you're going to constantly butt up against that style maybe it's not for you.

If I was on the trend of growing my collection still instead of downsizing to minimal pins, if I was still open to spending this kind of cash on a game, if I was hosting parties and wanting to share my games, I think I could accept that mindset and own this one.

Quoted from snaroff:

GNR is gorgeous, but I'm on the fence about he gameplay after studying last nights video. Thinking seriously about canceling my LE deposit until I have an opportunity to play it.

I feel like you're riiiiight in the middle of those two sides. You're a music guy, this totally feels like a pin for you. You know it would look great with your games. Do you still have your DE GNR? Would you replace it or set them side by side?

But on the other hand you're a player who really respects a playfield, something I like about you. And I can see your hesitation.

Definitely nothing wrong with playing it first. I can't see how you'd ever regret the decision to wait and try it.

12
#2655 3 years ago
Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:

I just prefer the snappy feel that Stern has with the flippers.

It's funny to see this full circle. If you've been around for long enough you remember when everyone complained about Stern's flippers and was so excited for JJP to bring back Williams flippers.

#2714 3 years ago
Quoted from Neal_W:

I finally figured out what the dirty robot and baron fighting are about. The original Appetite cover depicted the interruption of a robot rape by an avenging metal angel.

The art was still on the inside of the cassette insert after they took it off the cover fwiw. Most old school fans should be pretty familiar with it even if they didn't follow the controversy. It was pretty titillating for a 10 year old boy, I can tell you that.

30
#2864 3 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

The vision is, you do all this work to get a song and it would be nice to hear more than 6 seconds of it

I think most people with half a brain already understood this, but it's nice to hear it from the coder.

People who work on the games would probably post more if people on Pinside weren't always giant cocks about making everything personal. There was a post listing Borg's games, several of them all time classics that Pinside has championed hardcore for years, and then called him overrated. Get over yourself, it's childish and pathetic. There would be no JJP if Borg hadn't been there to help keep the lights on at Stern during some dark years for pinball.

Everyone should just let the multiball thing go already unless you have some new insight to add that hasn't been said 20 times. The game was designed to let you hear the songs even if you're a less than great player. It's a rock game with rock music that it wants you to rock out to. That's the game. It's not a mistake, it's a style.

There are lots of games that will happily drain your ball and then kick you in the balls if that's more your style. If you like more single ball play with combo shots and progression of a story I hear this Keith Elwin guy is worth looking at.

Except for the ridiculous prices pinball is just overflowing with great options. Try and appreciate it more instead of non-stop complaining.

11
#2867 3 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Pot meet Kettle [quoted image]

There's a difference between discussion, constructive criticism, and making every personal.

Nobody said you have to like everything, or can't discuss what you don't care for. There's a vast difference between "I prefer what JJP is doing to GNR than the style of games Stern is making, they don't put the extra time in that matters to me as a customer" and "Fuck John Borg, he's a half assed designer, and here's a list of all his non accomplishments".

Pinside is full of shit talkers who hide behind keyboards and throw trash at the people who actually produce things in this hobby. They read what people say, and it's hurtful. I know this because they've told me so. Why would anyone from Stern post here after the kind of abuse people toss their way?

I've worked on a game, I've put my projects here in public, and people are free to criticize them all they want. People who've made it personal are bitches on my ignore list.

Either you see the difference or you don't, but the creators of this hobby, the people who without them none of this would exist, don't deserve to be personally shat on.

#2990 3 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

I have never bought a game based on a cool light show

I kinda did that. The RGB lights on my Star Trek Premium definitely hypnotized me some. I ended up selling it after finding the "every mode the same" feeling boring after having it at home for a while.

Not saying GNR will be that at all. But this is the new game honeymoon period, people will calm down after settling in with it for a bit. Then we'll see what the staying power is.

I kinda doubt it will deflate that quickly, people who's gameplay opinions I trust are saying good things. But I still never put too much stock into these early impressions. We've all seen this early excitement phase before.

I personally hope this is a big hit for JJP, they deserve one.

#3179 3 years ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Dennis’s assessment on GNR is right on the money. Zach’s retorts don’t hold water and all he could say to counter Dennis is he hasn’t played it yet???

He hasn't played it yet? Why are you listening to someone blather on about a game they haven't even played? Serious question, that sounds utterly tedious.

I don't listen to pinball podcasts, I gather these guys arguing is a format, but really, if you haven't played the game what amazing insights into "how good of a game is it?" can you even bring?

I've been known to blather on about other things on a game, mostly art packages, but I can *see* those. You can't see playing a game. No, watching someone else flip on a stream isn't remotely the same thing. Pinball is a physical experience, that's the entire point, and if you haven't had the experience you can't speak on it.

I'm all for opinions, but I think we've really reached the point where people need to learn when to shut the fuck up about things they have no knowledge of. Too much talking to hear your own voice.

12
#3223 3 years ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

My thing is if you don’t like GNR and don’t plan on getting it, move on. Don’t ruin it for those who are excited. I’m not in the Avengers thread bashing it like I could. I’m not getting Avengers so I’m not there.

Some of us are here because we enjoy discussions, not just sucking off a game. I agree that there are people who just like to shit on other's fun, but honestly unless they're all already on my ignore list I'm not seeing that here.

Being honest and critical while also trying to be positive isn't always a perfect balance. I personally try. I think GNR looks like a stellar effort. I'm trusting the good opinions of the people I know who have played it who seem to really like it. I'm also still a little concerned it's got too much multiball once the new game feeling wears off. I think I'm allowed to talk about everything I think looks great while still having concerns. Why else are we here? I'm not getting paid to sell games or be a marketing shill.

I bet overall it's a real winner of a game, it has too much love to not be. I'd still like to read the negative impressions and thoughts to balance out the people who are maybe a little too enamored. We all know that the new game smell can be a little heady for some and it takes time for the real impressions to settle in.

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