Pull the glass, spin the disc, be amazed!!!
Well the bigger issue that maybe they wont be able to fix them, given they had pf problems on previous pins. Hope this is just a one-off!
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:
Nobody knows but that was the rumor I liked. It was chosen for illustrative purposes. Plug in the whole 5000 run number as being sold if you like and you’ll see that takes 20 weeks. The most variable and contentious component of my statement was JJP could build 250 games per week. What’s that like 20 freight trucks worth? We’d see evidence of that by watching the parking lot. Producing 50 games a day on a steady basis will take some time to ramp up to.
If I was a future JJP owner, and I might be, I hope they ARENT pumping them out that quick. Quality over quantity.
Quoted from flynnibus:
Yeah and just feeds down to the flippers for doing so.. kinda like GNR
Hey wesman - that's exactly what the button is for.. expressing disgreement without having to make a post to do so.
But if you want a longer discussion of why I disagree with your justification... I think pointing to spring strengths as some tell or feel about the game (when the spring is a perfect fit for the application) is stupid. There you go...
Does this end Springate?
Pin looks amazing, cannot wait to play..
Quoted from Blindseer:
Instead of making the claim that its pinball is wrong. Its the cost of being the first to buy any new product. Doesnt matter if its a game console, a game, a GPU, a car. If you are going to be mad because you had to be the first to buy a product and something is wrong then dont buy it before you know the risks.
Then explain bad PF's years later. Those are hardly buyers who bought new, yet still got the shaft. Multiple runs of multiple titles, same result..
Quoted from BallPin:
It definitely can happen. We speak with our wallets. We are complacent in this and only hurting ourselves. For example. If people start buying JJP, AP, CGC more now because they put more work into their machines, more toys, funner games, and Stern sales are going down, what do you think Stern will do? Two things. 1 is the stupid route that surprisingly a lot of companies take and usually leads to failure...that is...screw the loyal customers they currently have and make their games even worse but cutting more corners, therefore increased profits on each machine to offset the loss of lower sales. or 2. Up their game, build better machines to compete again with the competition. If option 2 is taken, we as consumers have won and spoke with our dollars and in turn received better machines. If we continue on buying these subpar play fields, and just bitch about them on pinside, what makes you think companies will improve if their sales numbers haven't dipped? Why has CGC figured it out, but JJP and Stern haven't? I'll purchase a CGC sight unseen because of their reputation. I currently won't purchase a Stern unless it heavily discounted on the 2nd market. JJP is a step up from Stern, but I won't purchase unseen. Unfortunately GnR is dream theme and ordered an LE in FOMO. I hope I don't regret it. I'm also not normally an LE purchaser. I thought I was going to get an SE for sure, but JJP threw a curve ball this time with removing 1/4 of the game's playing surface. Looking at previous models of SEs such as Wonka, DI, WOZ etc. the SE was usually missing a tiny toy that didn't really matter much to the game. So new pricing model kinda sucked for me personally.
Not to be a jerk, but everything you are saying has been said a hundred times already.
Quoted from Dkjimbo:
Honestly? If I could buy that game will the pooling shown and have it at my house this weekend I’d pay full MSRP no questions asked.
I’m way more concerned about the production schedule and the silence that I am playfield defects. I want the damn game!!!
JJP and Stern LOVE LOVE LOVE this attitude!
Quoted from PtownPin:
I think if your looking at WW CE, and DI CE historical data u could easily surmise that the CE would lose value. Obviously POTC CE has increased in value mainly due to the scarcity of the game in general (plus its a great game). I think GNR CE is such a unique product that it will at a minimum hold value and possibly increase over time. Simply getting all the band members to sign the game adds several hundred to the overall value.....The product offering on the GNR CE is very different than other JJP CE's
I think the prices will creep up.
Quoted from chuckwurt:
About 4 bucks.
ok, Ill take $2! Me thinks if you bought a few shares of Apple stock with that $1000, you might just make a wee bit more than 4 bucks in 6 months. Just a hunch.
And why make anyone commit? Isnt this a legit company now? Are they not able to fund their operations without deposits? If that is not the case, I would definitely wait, just to make sure they are around in May! I thought the days of pre-paying for a pin were over.
Quoted from zaphX:
If you think POTC is a stripped game you're just trolling.
And they DID learn. All this is just my own speculation, but from my perspective they learned:
- Never show the game until it is ready to ship. (Would anyone have whined about disc/trunkgate if they'd never seen them?)
- Have games ready to ship when you launch.
- Refundable deposits are harmful and not required if the game is sufficiently exciting.
Imagine a world where POTC orders could not be pulled due to disk/trunkgate. People would have kept their spots, gotten their games, and raved about how great they were. The line would have been able to keep moving.
Like I said, they learned. Except, just build games. Dont rely on other peoples money to make it happen. If you are confident in your product, a non-refundable deposit should not be required. This aint no custom spec'ed car that you want built. Yes, Ferrari demands funds upfront for a custom car, just as Ford etc does. JJP pins are not custom built. Forecast sales, get the parts for those and get moving. If it picks up speed, get more parts. Let me keep my $4!, or a couple of hundred..
Quoted from Pinballomatic:
Fantastic. So with Wonka we had no preorder and a completely different financial structure and people still complain. POTC was 8 months from reveal to start of shipping so this time with GnR we had nice amount built before even revealing the game so that they could ship at launch. And what am I reading over and over? We aren’t shipping them out fast enough. This is Webster’s definition of a no-win situation.
I guess the expectation would be that by now, they can fund their operations. Its definitely no win, when POTC was sold as one thing, and delivered as another. Now you are asking for $1000 to fund operations, if I am reading the other pinsider correctly? Not hard to be somewhat jaded on handing over $1000 bucks for an undefined amount of time. We've seen that scenario play out. JJP should be above that scenario, so why the deposit?
Anyway, I am one to wait until i can order and have it shipped a few days later. So by all means, keep funding folks!
Quoted from nicoy3k:
The lottery analogy is terrible. Even if your game has bad playfield issues it will work fine and be fun. Some people enjoy playing pinball more than examining it with a magnifying glass. The only downside is a 10% or so hit to resale value.
10% loss? I wouldn't buy a pin second hand if it had PF issues, unless it was a deep discount or had a pf as part of the sale.
Quoted from Yelobird:
Lol..... You really believe that?? You caught them, the Ultimate business conspiracy plan! So sneaky.
I absolutely believe they know, they have to know by now what batches of PFs are bad, potentially bad based on the complaints back to Stern/JJP. Look how many people dont think its a big deal.
Quoted from zaphX:
That sucks, but the PITA of the return is going to suck too.
It looks like the liquid used to apply the decal is still trapped in those affected areas. It might be fixable.
Some ideas to try:
Pic 1 - Warm it up LIGHTLY with a hair dryer and try to smooth it upward towards the rail with a credit card wrapped in a t-shirt or something to keep it from scratching?
Pic 2 - Not 100% sure what the issue is here but if it's that white spot on the black, I'd just Sharpie it.
Pic 3 - I'd unscrew the flipper and try to smooth those wrinkles towards the flipper hole.
It is at least worth a try, IMO. Maybe request a backup decal set to keep.
Eff that. Risk screwing it up worse, then giving JJP a reason to deny the warranty. I know to you, its cosmetic and not a big deal. Buyers deserve better and the manufacturers need to be held accountable.
Quoted from PinMonk:Aside from the scratch, both these are minor problems that can be fixed with a blow dryer and a credit card. Can you over-heat and screw it up? Yes, but you'd have to be really inattentive and leave the heat too close and in one place a long time to do that. It's a pretty low-risk, high reward fix.
It's great when you get a perfect, flawless machine out of the box, but look closely enough and that rarely happens. NIB rarely (never?) means perfect, unfortunately.
Why are PB consumers willing to overlook defects, cosmetic, or otherwise? Many companies have a scratch and dent section for defective products. People paying $10000 for a new product, do not want scratch and dent quality when paying full retail price.
Do you on your new vehicle purchase? How about the new fridge you ordered. If it gets delivered with a scratch or dent, would you accept delivery?
Quoted from PinMonk:
If I could smooth it with a hairdryer and a credit card I'd ask for some consideration for the trouble and do just that. Having owned well over 100 machines, many NIB, I'm less precious about ownership. Would the condition noted be a bummer? Yes. But the machine still plays. I'd be playing the crap out of it right now.
The problem is, what if he makes it worse?
What consideration will JJP give for defective and scratched decals? Send a kit and expect the owner to swap it out? If trained workers cant get it right, how can a consumer be expected too?
Thing is, you and other buyers who have many many nib purchases, helped create this problem. You have let things slide for years, so now its to be expected and if you want what you pay for, you are a whiner or not a pinball person. Is it too much to expect some QA??
I actually came back to edit my post, as I didnt want to seem like I was saying you specifically. Its operators and Stern that kept pinball alive, so the now HUO crowd(Me) can enjoy pinball. While to operators, its the same ol, same ol, but for Stern or JJP ANYBODY, they should realize the game has changed since the 80's. Would it kill em to hire a QA person?. Only takes one ass-chewing for accountability to get that corrected.
Fact is though, JJP and Stern are selling more games than they can make, so they dgaf. Pin buyers of all stripes arent helping by letting them off the hook, in 2021.
Quoted from zaphX:
I agree that it's a QC miss, for sure. I'd report it too.
But I'd still try to fix it since it's almost certainly some liquid or air that can be smoothed out leaving a 100% perfect decal.
I would do this too, after Stern states that if it doesnt work, or makes it worse, Stern will cover it under warranty.
Quoted from zaphX:
Should it have been caught? Yes. We're not disagreeing on that.
But I'm a pragmatic guy. Would I send back a machine over a bubble I can smooth out in 5 minutes? Hell no. I'd fix it and move on with my life.
But hey, bitching on Pinside is fun! Break out the pitchforks, we got ourselves an outrage!
Yes, we get it, you come in here to bash every new pinball owner who has a problem with a NIB purchase. Admins should make one of your dozens of replies a sticky, just so you dont have to retype if everytime a NIB has an issue.
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