Guns N' Roses (CE)
Jersey Jack, 2020
Guns N' Roses (LE)
Jersey Jack, 2020
Guns N' Roses (SE)
Jersey Jack, 2020You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider Pinballomatic.
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Quoted from Pickle:I wish they would do a nice reveal but JJP has had poor reveals in the past. DI specifically..... all the hype and the pure silence of disbelief that that is the original theme they came up with. If it is GnR at least the theme won’t kill the mood.
POTC reveal was good, WW reveal was good. My opinion of course.
Quoted from PtownPin:Up until now all models of JJP games had consistent layouts. Buyers only paid for up for bling, and a few game features (i.e. RGB lighting). To my knowledge this will be their first game thats different.
Wonka SE didn't have the physical Wonkavator
Quoted from JamCat:Where will this be revealed? Will there be a live stream to watch? They aren’t very good at getting that out there
Pay attention to the JJP social media / FB stuff at 12pm central time. There will be more news there and after that also.
Quoted from PtownPin:I think its awesome your commenting on this thread....
Yeah and I had to edit that of course - 12noon central time is the time
Quoted from TreyBo69:Is this the first JJP to not have a screen in the playfield?
WoZ had the crystal ball, Hobbit had a screen, Dialed In had the phone, POTC had the apron screen, Wonka has the Wonkavision. Or did I miss it?
It has one - the wonkavision monitor is on the back panel
Quoted from heyitsjoebob:Is the hotbar essentially a built-in Pinstadium?
No. What they do is take the place of traditional woodrails along the outside edges of the playfield - there are no woodrails in those spots as there have been on just about every recent game - all 5 JJP games for sure but pretty much everything. So then they integrated them and made them code controlled and therefore they can participate in the choreographed light shows, and because of their unique placement where wood would normally be, the effect is some incredible light shows as you can see. Hope that helps explain the idea.
Quoted from rai:Just call it Wonka.
No one calls Wizard of Oz WOO you have a good abbreviation name everyone knows what you mean.
They call it WOZ
Quoted from rai:I know that
My point is you don't need to use all the first letters of a game to make an abbreviation WOO is the three first letters of Wizard Of Oz, we don't call it Woo we call it WoZ which is first letter and last word contraction to WoZ.
Gotcha
Quoted from PinFever:Are those inserts in the drain lane ? Tilt warnings remaining? Do they light up?
blockquote cite="#5919905">Orange?
I really need to see my optometrist.
[quoted image]
Yes and the mystery award can add one
Quoted from Sako-TRG:You forget to mention......
Tech support is pants also....
It’s like some of these companies sell these pins and have maybe 1 or 2 guys in their team that work tech support but are over worked. The companies stance though is fcuk it.....when the pin starts inevitably malfunctioning the consumer can refer to Pinside to sort their issues ....leave them to it !!
Hmmmm... Interesting theory... let's see... "It has come to my attention that I am involved in an odd pants metaphor... under these circumstances it would be wrong not to ask for a bump in my sala----"
Oops. Sorry. Was that out loud?
Quoted from Sako-TRG:Lol.....unfortunate, but true. I am in my case referring to Stern presently as all my NIBs are Stern and any correspondences to tech support and parts have been unanswered every time with one exception - Chaz. I even have another email drafted / unanswered ready to resend from 2019 due to Covid as I write this. My next pin is GnR LE already ordered which will be my very first JJP pin with my UK Distro so hoping won’t need to test JJP support infrastructure .... lol.... but Pinside support standing by
Chaz passed away recently and it is a great loss for Stern. Pat has always been excellent and is a great guy as well.
Quoted from jarozi:They should have had it tested by 6 members of the Pinball Media before ever considering releasing it.
That'd go over well. You can't get 6 people to agree on anything other than we deserve a raise and a long vacation.
Quoted from PtownPin:Are you sure about that? The original JJP DI protectors were installed at the factory and made by JJP .... not Cliff....I had to remove mine, and replace with Cliff's
Both are correct. In house ones were not as thin so Cliff who is good people in case anyone wonders jumped up and made them for us
Quoted from kidchrisso:Yup, The Escape Room (that place is cool as all get out), CP Pinball, and Padavan's NY Restaurant
Larry Kirchner is our distributor there he has two out.
Quoted from tilted81:They shouldn’t be using cordless drills. They should be using pneumatic drills, w. A pre determined torque setting. That’s how we did it on the assembly line 21 years ago when I was on it.
I love it kind Sir.
Quoted from tilted81:They should also be doing hardness testing w/ a Rockwell or something on these playfield. If they set a spec, the playfield issues fall on the playfield manufacturers. These pinball manufacturers need to hire someone that’s worked in automotive for a while to help them w/ Q.C.
These issues popping up on guns and roses make me sick! This is jjp’s first game that has my real attention, c’mon!! Let’s get it right! I wanna see them succeed!
I think they fired frozen chickens out of a cannon at it with Wonka. IIRC, like with airplane windscreens or the bottom of the shuttle.
Quoted from tilted81:One place I worked routinely had groups of late term engineers who hadn’t graduated yet walk through. They had them work through problems and come up w/ solutions FOR FREE! Jjp, wouldn’t even have to pay for some of these ideas! Fuck man, let’s get it right.
Not for nothing - JJP doesn't manufacture the playfields
Quoted from tilted81:Set specs on playfields, and make the manufacturers adhere to those specs. They’ll do it if they want the business.
I hear you and if there was an open market with 15 potential vendors you would be 100% correct.
Quoted from Hazoff:Yeah. I understand the dream theme GnR fans not being able to wait, but let them figure it out and buy one in a year from now. JJP will release many versions of the LE.
I love ya but no. Upper mgt will do 5000 of one LE
Quoted from flynnibus:Their strategy was “we need to sell more games”
They released a new variant to try to generate new interest. They didn’t have a better horse to run so they doll up the best they had. Ruby red was a way to sell woz at a better price and basically a version 2.0 of the game. Woz was a winner... so how do you keep that pumping? New model year...
Black arrow was a desperate move to try to generate some fomo interest in the lagging hobbit... and probably trying to use up the inventory they had. It showed marketing alone couldn’t save that cow.You have the first part pretty close and the second part 180 degrees off. DI launch was where we introduced Black Arrow with Jack promising a run of no more than 750 units, which was adhered to, but the thing you said about parts is flipped - it wasn't to use up inventory we had; in fact it required the purchase of 750 games times each part multiplied by the number of that part used in each machine blah blah blah
If there was a time when we went for "hey let's use up parts we bought it was at the very end of Black Arrow when DI was starting and running up to speed. Then they decided "hey, all of our Hobbits sold away and we have demand for some more, so the result was another 100 BAs and 90 LEs (I made these numbers up)" became the plan. Smaugs we were stopped from making because, ala the CE DI run, Jack limited the ordering window of Smaugs to long before that (I got a Smaug BTW). And you are entitled to call it a cow that's cool but since the 3.10 code especially, factory is sold out and so are almost every distributor and there will never be another Hobbit run so it ended up doing fine all things considered. My personal thought was that Black Arrow came to be because DI wouldn't be ready for full line push for a few months so we made BA Hobbits.
YBR is the one odd ball that totally seemed to be about production schedules... and was a filler to span until wonka was ready. The game should tell you everything really about POTC.... and why they went back to woz instead of a potc special edition for 200 games as the filler.
Potc was killed.
This opinion of yours implies something I can't quite follow. YBR WOZ is the result of EVERYONE in a position of power getting tired of the question "you've been out of your runaway best selling game forever and I want one, please make more already" basically from what I could tell. And yes a small YBR run (very small) filled the void until Wonka was truly ready. This part, yes. POTC wasn't killed in the sense you imply at all. It was very odd that Jack announced it ahead of time the way he did but they did want the game to sell so I guess the strategy was to create the FOMO amonst those on the fence about buying? It sold out very quickly once the announcement sunk in, and all units were sold before they were completely off the line.
Next came Wonka.
Quoted from Sako-TRG:Once the GnR LEs are sold I would be extremely surprised not to see another variant - say ‘Slash Edition - with signed hats or similar’
No way will this cash cow will stop Mooing
Me, I’m happy with the current LE which is why I’m in- as you won’t nail the art no matter what variant is gets released.
Okay fair enough. I don’t think so but it could be.
Quoted from flynnibus:So to fill woz backlog you create a super priced game.. with reduced features and new investment on a very very small batch? Just build more RR or standards at that point... no need to drive new interest if its just to fill pent up demand. Doesn’t pass the sniff test.
Meanwhile you have your latest and greatest game’s run aborted way early... and obviously done intentionally as they didnt have have parts either.
And given everyone’s attitude and demeanor at TPF... I’m sticking with POTC was killed. You wouldn’t have needed a schedule filler before wonka if they committed to POTC. Eric looked like his parents had grounded him. Jack sounded like the man struggling to hold the party line. He wanted to see demand for potc, but just couldn’t put any credence to the future. Best he could convey was desire and ability, but no commitment. He clearly looked like the guy there delivering the message... not the guy who made the call.
My read was POTC was seen as too risky, too expensive, not enough demand... so they killed it because they were gambling wonka would be the opposite. Strong demand, better margins, better payoff. Sure looked the power move had been made, the overlords had put their foot down and were betting on the lawlor project. Ybr was just the solution to the void caused by the potc decision.
No insider... but my take.
Fine. I work here. But whatever I'm not going to argue and in the end it doesn't matter anyway. It's an interesting discussion.
Quoted from zaphX:Repeat after me:
THE NEW MICRO PLAYFIELDS ARE NOT CALLED SPECTRUM PLAYFIELDS.
THE DEMO WAS DONE ON A PLAYFIELD FOR THE GAME SPECTRUM.
You are correct of course
Quoted from BallPin:CE playfield is different art from LE and SE playfields, so maybe they haven't done CE's yet...I don't know.
This^^
Quoted from PtownPin:No doubt
To pull all what off? The new place can have two full time playfield lines if needed. It can be ramped up. However, who said anything about building another new pin when GnR has been out less than a month and is selling well.
Quoted from zr11990:I dont mind waiting, thats not a issue. My issue is paying that kind of cash for something that might fall apart in 6 months.
Really what color is the sky in your world? When’s the last JJP stern AP or spooky game that fell apart in six months?
Quoted from smalltownguy2:Come on, Steve....just....don't.
Don't engage.
Of course you’re right. My buttons are easily pushed so they see me coming
Oh I see that’s what falling apart means. Well at least you don’t have to worry since you aren’t in on GnR.
Quoted from zr11990:Where have you been? I did buy one or I wouldn't care. I sold a restored FH to buy it. My game is gone so I have to roll the dice.
Yes I do remember reading that, my mistake. Okay I understand your nervousness. Funhouse is awesome. It will be okay though.
Quoted from zr11990:Well fuck I figured they would have gotten their shit together by now. Supposedly they fixed this problem after the POTC had issues.
Again, we don’t make the playfields. This WOZ you had issues with - was it an original from 2013-14? We didn’t have our current playfield vendor at that time.
Quoted from Roostking:Yea, they learned alright. Present full playfield with all sorts of toys. Collect pre-order $$$. Strip playfield of toys, ship! (No pun intended)
Fantastic. So with Wonka we had no preorder and a completely different financial structure and people still complain. POTC was 8 months from reveal to start of shipping so this time with GnR we had nice amount built before even revealing the game so that they could ship at launch. And what am I reading over and over? We aren’t shipping them out fast enough. This is Webster’s definition of a no-win situation.
Quoted from jalpert:The day before the game went on sale, they posted a pic to twitter with nothing but in box games and someone looking proud. This strongly implies these games were ready to ship.
I was expecting weeks, but if you are going to post crap like bunches of games ready to ship, you better have the majority of the games ready to ship or close.
https://twitter.com/JJPinball/status/1312803772435890176
I respectfully disagree. There were as Derek said 112 games ready to go prior to 10/5. The ones not boxed were poised on the line (SEs next up as per the plan) and the factory continued making games that Monday. To suggest that the MAJORITY of games needed to be ready to ship at launch suggests that you aren't actually going to be doing a production run, in fact you would have had to have already done pretty much the entire run prior to the launch. That leads to the obvious question of how many games you would have made in anticipation? How do you know prior to launch how many you are going to sell when there was no preorder? Never mind the "where would you store them" problem, which is legitimate, the entire idea of the majority of a run of some unknown quantity made beforehand goes against basic production logic.
Quoted from jalpert:I don't know how many people picked up on that. I wasn't one of them. Maybe they could keep them somewhere in their new and much larger production facility? I'm not sure, neither is anyone.
This is bizarre though, why not say anything? Why require non refundable deposits? If the game is that good, it'll sell itself so deposits shouldn't be a big deal. Do we know much about this "new" Jersey Jack? This isn't mean to be negative speculation, but are these guys financially stable and in it for the long haul? How do we know? I'm hoping for some really good answers that lead us to believe all is well. They don't "need" our deposit money, do they?
Again, I'm not implying anything, I'm hoping someone can chime in and let us all know all is well.
Again, I'm not attacking you personally but just think on this for a moment. This investment group, which conservatively can be said to have more money than at least some third world countries, uplifts the entire operation that has been in NJ since 2013 (really since 2011), closes the factory that had produced all of the first 5 tables along with their many variations in February of 2020, invests I legitimately know not how many millions of dollars in outfitting a new building, consolidating the Illinois staff, has signs made all over, hires contractors who, during a pandemic the likes of which no one has seen before, run miles of cat5 cable, build out the production lines, bring in all new office furniture, dozens of computers, all new lighting, the new shopbot and many new pieces of equipment including table saws and the like for the new design and construction area, fronts the capital for the many parts needed to make a couple of thousand GnR at minimum, interviews and hires new production people, lands Duncan Brown and Bill Grupp amidst a SEA of other prior employees, technicians, engineers and the list goes on and on. Paints everything paves the parking lot, contracts with various new vendors for a cardboard crusher, dumpsters, etc., along with the insurance and all of the headaches of uprooting your established factory and culling together a new one amidst a work from home order, finances countless things including but not limited to the fancy GnR trailers for launch day, all the R&D for title #7 which is underway in the background, hires and trains all (mostly) new staff and on and on and on. There are countless things I haven't thought of which is one of the many reasons why I could never have taken on a job this massive and intense. Following all of that effort and time and commitment, you ask if these guys are stable and in it for the long haul?
Bit of a reach there, don't you think?
Quoted from nicoy3k:It’s 2020, virtually no company is stable with the global environment we are living in.
Okay in that sense of the word stable, I agree that's true. My point still holds though.
Quoted from jalpert:It is. And I removed it because I got a couple PMs and I don’t need that shit.
My only point is, we’ve had more than one new pinball company come in, accept large non refundable payments and then screw everyone.
This is essentially a new company, and they require small but non refundable payments.
Crazier things have happened. I don’t think this is that, but this is not how I’d do business. Come out and say why they give us an eta?
Okay I follow you. Though we've got just about 10 years and 6 titles out now, that really isn't a lot when you come to think about it. Certainly not compared to the former big three manufacturers of the past. I do understand and of course I don't own JJP I am just an employee of long standing. Fair enough then.
Quoted from Roostking:I guess the expectation would be that by now, they can fund their operations. Its definitely no win, when POTC was sold as one thing, and delivered as another. Now you are asking for $1000 to fund operations, if I am reading the other pinsider correctly? Not hard to be somewhat jaded on handing over $1000 bucks for an undefined amount of time. We've seen that scenario play out. JJP should be above that scenario, so why the deposit?
Anyway, I am one to wait until i can order and have it shipped a few days later. So by all means, keep funding folks!
Now you are asking for $1000 to fund operations - uh, assuming that were true which it is not, why announce something like that? That makes no sense at all.
I'm bowing out of this discussion since once I wrote about the company being fine and committed to this thing long term I got "well why can't you get games out in a timely manner? which is designed I assume to troll me because it's nonsense. Peace. I'll stick to the tech stuff as that is my field.
Quoted from Skyemont:Not yet but I’m sure it will be hopefully.
You’ll have to prove you own a CE but yes I think so
Quoted from LTG:You're up early. Didn't want the extra hour of sleep ?
LTG : )
I don’t sleep anymore
Too busy
Quoted from konghusker:The play field problems started with DI. Woz had an issue in pops first run, but got fixed eventually after LE run was done. My RR woz and hobbit are perfect after many years and plays. Wonder what happened after hobbit.
DI had a bit of a brittle issue but no pooling or anything. Pooling started with some POTC.
Quoted from screaminr:Maybe it's about time they changed that .
Back in the day Gottleib had their own metal shop and wound their own coils in house. Pretty cool. Today not so practical I believe.
Quoted from WillSmuz8999:At Williams, in the early to mid-nineties, we had our own metal shop, pcb through hole manufacturing, and wire harness assembly. Once Electronic Sound stopped making playfields, we needed capacity, as we were making 300 games per day. Lenc Smith gained the capability of making playfields in-house. Absolute booming time in pinball!
Thanks for sharing that - fascinating
Quoted from phoenixpin:Update: I reserve the right to feel differently if I ever sell my games
Duly noted. The record shall so reflect...
Quoted from Yelobird:Regarding Hype I was referring to the TWIPY awards etc. Seemed like I was missing out on something until we played it. Again good game just not what we enjoy. As for availability I disagree. Last I heard there was a pile of CE games stacked up.
Youre thinking Wonka Yelo not DI
Quoted from Gorgar666:....so are the LE’s #’ed 1-5000?...doesn’t sound too limited. I’m down for an LE on launch. Guess it will be a low number.
Game numbers are meaningless in terms of sequence of games built. Game numbers are unique in the sense that there will only be one machine with LE 512 for example. What I mean is that LE 312 left the factory the day after the launch. So going by game numbers gets you nowhere in terms of build sequence.
Quoted from PinMonk:I'm not sure how it unloads the coma lock since it's on the left side of the apron. Maybe just drops the post, letting a ball drop into the trough and the game serves one to the shooter lane like normal? Maybe someone with a CE can chime in. I've only seen stills of it, no video.
It drops the ball into the trough and then it can be autolaunched
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Kermit, WV
