Quoted from Sako-TRG:Taylor Swift + Talent? You’ve been eating too many yabbies mate, gone walkabout without your bush hat, gotten lost and taken in too much sun
There are some good new rock bands
(Topic ID: 278459)
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Guns N' Roses (CE)
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Quoted from Billy16:I'm guessing you were using these videos to illustrate that maybe we should keep looking for the good new bands?
No some were talking about was there any good bands after the 90s
Quoted from branlon8:cool - that’s the girl from Gossip Girl !
I knew she was an actress first but did not know what she did
Quoted from PtownPin:My guess is JJP always sells more LE's than anything else...yes sales will be higher, but I think by selling CE's first they would sell out quicker, and their margins would be higher....basically the Stern model, which has proven to be successful. That being said if history means anything you'll be correct.
CE games do not sell out the only JJP CE to sell out was POTC with a run of 200. As long as CE games are runs of 500 they will always have a hard time selling out
Quoted from PtownPin:Its not the point....the point is they make the most $ on CE's just as Stern clearly makes the greatest margin on their LE games. I do agree that 500 CE's is a lot at their price point, but 250 is definitely doable if the game is even close to POTC, which is a big question. No doubt that POTC is the best game to hit the market in the last 20 years.
You had me till best game in the last 20 yr
Quoted from PtownPin:Coming from someone who has never owned the game let alone any JJP game.
So have you owned every game made in the last 20 yr's I don't think so
Quoted from PtownPin:If the game hype is real JJP could sell out 250 CE's pretty quickly
I agree if 250 it's a sellout
Quoted from NightTrain:I’m definitely open to buying a CE. But it actually has to be collectible and limited. If they make 500, I’m out. If they do 200-250. I’m in.
Quoted from mbrave77:6750 is interesting. Getting close to stern pro territory, though JJP usually charges shipping as well which stern doesnt.
Call your local distributor some have no charge for shipping http://www.pinballsandgames.com
Quoted from o-din:I hear that. Hopefully it doesn't get in the way of things.
I think the spinner is to increase difficulty on two of the shots as it bloks them when spinning
Quoted from sonambulo:Looks awesome to me but I would have liked a "big toy" that moved and interacted with the game like the T-Rex of the Stern-JP. The big robot from the Appetite album would have been awesome!
Do you...
- Do you think that JJP will make in the future different "limited editions", like they did with Wizard of Oz (ECLE, RR, Yellow...) ?
- Do you think the autographs of the cards on the CE are real or printed? (I can't imagine Axl sitting down to sign 500 cards...)
- Do you think that will be possible to add new songs in some way?
There will be no more LE games as with a 5000 run will never be sold out
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:so at least 5500 games to be made? Is stern selling that much per title
I doubt it
It is interesting that this is the first game Automated Devices has charged shipping Wonka has no shipping cost. Automated Devices has always had free shipping to your door but not in the house http://pinballstore.tripod.com/guns-n-roses.html
Quoted from RobF:On the superawesomepinballpodcast, did I hear Eric correctly that the songs were not studio versions, but new re-recorded versions? I can't quite make sense of that, so hopefully I misheard. I searched through the thread but didn't see this mentioned.
Link to podcast please
It is good to see that JJP went with a DI style game and not a TH style game. Many JJP fans seem to think 100 modes makes for a good game I would rather see 8 to 12 main modes with several secondary modes. The drumsticks symbols and guitars very cool. All the art except the map A+. The thing I like least is what many I am sure love and that is the lights are over the top and not in a good way but thats just me
EjmC_CxX0AEvWnV (resized).jpegQuoted from Jvspin:I remember it differently. As I recall, Jack was a long time distributor for Stern and he wasn't happy as more and more features were being stripped from the games.
He believed people were willing to pay a premium price for a premium product, and started JJP with that model in mind. I think the introductory $6500 pre-order price for WOZ was about $2k higher than Stern at that time (Iron Man Pro).
The irony is the stripped down IM had such demand that it was brought back
Quoted from Doctor6:Well.... could it have anything to do with the fact that it is 3000 and 6000 dollars cheaper, maybe?
The standard is pretty much location only at this point. I'd say if you plan to get this for your home it is le or bust.
It's fine for people on location as they will not know what has been pulled from the game
Quoted from cooked71:OMFG, lets start listing the Stern clusterf*cks over the years....
LOL I guess two clusterf*cks wipe each other out what a dumb-ass idea
Quoted from cooked71:Here's the issue....Stern release and sell at least 2000 LE games a year, all sold out almost instantly. Good themes, good games.
JJP has not released a single game for 18 months. They suddenly release a great game and a great theme and only 500 CE's. It's not enough. I think they would be forgiven for increasing CE units in this case - hasn't ever stopped Stern.
LOL you are giving Stern far to much credit Avengers LE are still available "sold out almost instantly" I don't think so
Quoted from Guinnesstime:From the video, I've watched like 5 minutes. Is every mode a multi ball?[quoted image]
Yes and that is the only time the music seems to play
Quoted from rai:I believe they said in the rules explanation that you qualify the characters (or the mode) and you lock balls and you use those balls in each mode. So that the more balls you lock you get more multiball. I hope it's not every single mode but it may be. I think very noob pinball people or casual palyers would be attracted to multiballs galore but I don't want to be in MB all the time. LOL
I'm going to pay attention to that during the streams.
Love that GIF btw
I believe you can avoid the multiballs by not shooting the upper playfield that people love
Quoted from gonzo73:JJP had the pinball world in its hands for 24 hours... then kablooie!
I'm rooting for JJP, looks like a rad game. Cant wait to play it.
But they need to get ahead of this story now.
I dont care what time it is in Chicago, but they need to call everybody back to the office tonight. And figure this out.
It can't be that hard to make an extra 100 CE's. All they need is 100 coma lock mechs.
Even if it was the distributors over selling, it looks bad.
C'mon JJP you finally did a game release right, dont blow it now, by ignoring a growing controversy.
Were rooting for you JJP!
Message from the Freeeek Kingdom.
I don't think it was over selling Automated Devices listed the price on the LE and SE games yesterday but had unavailable at this time on the CE not sold out
Quoted from spidey:Stern prices include shipping and JJP does not. So add $300 roughly. And Stern can always be purchased below MSRP and JJP cannot.
The local distributor in the North East has always included shipping for both Stern and JJP till this game. I don't know if you can still get the discount but if you picked up the game and payed cash you got $300 off the price of the game
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:Having Buffalo Pinball stream this will be so much better than well......the other person
As long as you keep comparing yourself to the "other person" it means you are still #2 at best
Quoted from Jvspin:Good for profitability and reliability,
Reliability maybe but something as simple as a shop job on this game will be a bitch
Quoted from Jvspin:I think Stern has been doing pretty well lately code wise, considering they're putting out 3 to 4 games a year. The polish JJP is able to give to their code with their slower release schedule is one of the things I really like about their games.
The rate Stern has put out code has been far better for a year or two now
Quoted from Guinnesstime:From all streams it's really hard to understand what to do. There's so many multiballs, it all looks like flipping without a purpose.
Quoted from kermit24:The mini screen in the back tells you EXACTLY what to do. When in doubt, check it out.
In the middle of multiball looking up at the mini screen is not an option
Quoted from Skyemont:100 LE’s are boxed and shipping
100 SE’s are on the line (50 per week)
100 CE’s should be in the line 10-26-20
Not sure where January came from. Are you getting a GNR’s?
The irony is the success of the game will cause long wait times as in the past even though they now have there shit together
Quoted from Yelobird:Turn off all "add a balls", extra balls, etc as you wish!
The problem with this is if the game was build around multiball taking them out could affect the progression of the game
Quoted from kermit24:Yes it is. The inserts also tell you what to do.
The prior discussion you had with another Pinsider was about how hard that is to do with all inserts flashing
Quoted from colonel_caverne:This is what he said about MB:
« The multiballs during songs are not some separate thing to score more points. They simply are there to help you do the previous mentioned goal. Get max rock meter, kick ass on the song and get an encore. I think if people think of it in that manner. They will understand the true genius of this game and see how the MBs are not excessive because they don’t serve the purpose everyone in Pinball is use to. You aren’t stopping to control and take specific shots. You are jamming out! You are flinging all the balls as best you can to orchestrate a killer performance and keep the meter high! «
Sorry what means »jamming out »?
Is each song unique to play?
So if you remove the excessive multiball like people say it will effect your progress in the game
Quoted from rai:My understanding is ball 2 will spot you one member and ball 3 spots you another two members. Other things like patches can spot members or JAM can spot them all ( just what I’ve read).
I am not sure but I believe ball 1 2 and 3 spot members of the band so that everyone can start a song by ball 3
Quoted from Skyemont:My thing is if you don’t like GNR and don’t plan on getting it, move on. Don’t ruin it for those who are excited. I’m not in the Avengers thread bashing it like I could. I’m not getting Avengers so I’m not there.
Funny stuff you in the stranger things thread "Which is packed more. Rick and Morty or Stranger Things?"
"Exactly what I was thinking as well. I’m not buying this pin but Stern can sure sell a lot of pinballs even when not streamed. Unbelievable! "
"I love it. It’s very entertaining. Please keep it up. 
"you get nothing good day sir! "
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Quoted from PtownPin:I don't know and I really don't care....I don't like cartoon animation games. My kids enjoyed cartoon animations when they were 5 as an adult I tend to relate to movie assets...AIQ and JP2 both are fun layouts with shitty assets. With real movie assets JP2 would be a grand slam.
Funny I think all the graphics in G&R are A to A+ but the overkill of the band on stage is a B-
Quoted from romulusx:It’s funny to me how the Stern fanboys came here to argue about what is the best Elwin game.I love that they all say I would have purchased a GnR but I’m just not a fan of this or that when in reality their just here to piss on GnR!
As a JJP fan I’ve never felt the need to piss on Stern or their games to make me feel better about my choice in pinball machines.Oh there was the first time I saw AC/DC pro with the giant face in the middle of the playfield and said WTF is this!
I ended up falling in love with a Luci later on and traded my bar life Addams Family.
No this is more your style "I’ve got another idea for a reality show.Levi & his pal Reginald are truck drivers,like BJ and the bear.Will one day they drive thru town straight into a large group of African American protesters........" https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whos-angry-live-pd-was-canceled?tu=romulusx
Quoted from Palmer:It's funny when people talk about geometry and flow. When someone says a game has great flow, it really just means there are a lot of shots that are easy. But no one wants to say easy shots because everyone wants to think of themselves as good players. WTF is weird geometry? Geometry is math...nothing weird about it. What you mean is the point at which you need to shoot on the flipper is different than 90% of most games. The shots are different on Rick and Morty. The game is brutal. You absolutely need to control the ball and you are punished for not hitting your shots. It is a shallow game code wise when you compare it to the likes of JJP. But I keep hitting the start button over and over. It feels like a modern day Flash Gordon. Brutal game that keeps me coming back. Sometimes I would play my JJP games and after a half hour I would just get tired. I am not a great player. JJP games tend to be long. I definitely want one back in my line up but two was too many. Now I don't have any. Maybe GnR will be the one.
No flow means less stop and go butter=easy shots clunky=hard shots
Quoted from Doctor6:JP is over rated as hell. And dont get me started on the artwork. How in the hell is a number two pin of all time this stinking ugly?
The top 100 rankings are bologna. Pure and simple. It's a high school popularity contest at this point.
LOL The rankings are bologna with JJP POTC #4 
Quoted from PtownPin:Sounds like you've mixed up Sterns POTC game for the real JJP POTC game. The real one (JJP's) is number 4 and Sterns probably barely makes the top 100. Same confusion takes place with Sterns IJ versus the real Williams IJ....it happens.
Not mixed up Jorand says the 100 top games is bologna because Stern JP is number 3 if the top 100 is bologna that that makes JJP POTC at #4 just as much a joke as a Stern JP rating
Quoted from BallPin:Deeproots big selling point is they won't cut corners
henrylaugh (resized).jpgQuoted from BallPin:It definitely can happen. We speak with our wallets. We are complacent in this and only hurting ourselves. For example. If people start buying JJP, AP, CGC more now because they put more work into their machines, more toys, funner games, and Stern sales are going down, what do you think Stern will do? Two things. 1 is the stupid route that surprisingly a lot of companies take and usually leads to failure...that is...screw the loyal customers they currently have and make their games even worse but cutting more corners, therefore increased profits on each machine to offset the loss of lower sales. or 2. Up their game, build better machines to compete again with the competition. If option 2 is taken, we as consumers have won and spoke with our dollars and in turn received better machines. If we continue on buying these subpar play fields, and just bitch about them on pinside, what makes you think companies will improve if their sales numbers haven't dipped? Why has CGC figured it out, but JJP and Stern haven't? I'll purchase a CGC sight unseen because of their reputation. I currently won't purchase a Stern unless it heavily discounted on the 2nd market. JJP is a step up from Stern, but I won't purchase unseen. Unfortunately GnR is dream theme and ordered an LE in FOMO. I hope I don't regret it. I'm also not normally an LE purchaser. I thought I was going to get an SE for sure, but JJP threw a curve ball this time with removing 1/4 of the game's playing surface. Looking at previous models of SEs such as Wonka, DI, WOZ etc. the SE was usually missing a tiny toy that didn't really matter much to the game. So new pricing model kinda sucked for me personally.
You forgot option 3 that they have done in the past lay off 100 employees when their demand drops
Quoted from romulusx:All I can say is
[quoted image]
LOL you say relax but if these were Stern issues the sky would be falling 
Quoted from Palmer:No one will tell you who their distro is when bragging about the deal they got. So many pinsiders brag about their deals but it’s crickets when you ask for info whether publicly or via private message.
Now it has been a number of years so I do not know if you can still get the money off but http://pinballstore.tripod.com/jurassic-park-pinball-machine.html Automated Services used to give $300 off for paying in cash with JP at 7,599 that makes the cost $5,299
Quoted from PtownPin:My guess is they could easily raise the price on POTC LE's and sell 200 before they even started manufacturing. Theres way too much demand and used ones are selling at $14K+ ....
With the backorder of G&R along with people waiting on Toystory They don't have the time or the production facility to pull it all off
Quoted from romulusx:That JJP will make that whole lineup of Stern’s you have look so much better!I think your really going to like your JJP game when it arrives!
LOL same shit different post
Quoted from Pinchild:My Wonka is having issues.
JJP is sending new playfield.
I'll keep it and play it as is then in 10 years do a swap.
Presto new art!
With post like this you should expect less and less new playfields
Quoted from cooked71:Even Stern cant keep up with demand at the moment due to Covid - I read new orders are being promised 1st half of next year from Stern.
You are right Stern cant keep up and took shit for saying so when Gary said they have 5000 games on order. In the end it comes to do you have to put down $1000 when ordering a Stern game that you will wait months to get
Quoted from screaminr:If you don't like the Hobbit that's fair enough , that's your opinion .
Besides the 11 drop targets , 4 bash toys and 2 ramps it also has 13 stand up targets , 3 gobble holes , 2 orbit spinners , 1 captive ball and 4 rollovers .
So don't give me that crap about there's nothing to shoot for .
Hitting things gets old I think cmcmpt felt it may have needed more flow just off the top of my head G&R has atleast 5 shots that go somewhere loops ramps the upper flipper shot a captive ball can help the rules but is not satisfying
Quoted from screaminr:The first thing I said was it's your opinion fair enough .
It has 39 things you can shoot for , not including pops or slings .
Good luck finding a pin with more to go for .
I am sure there are EM games with over 25 drops or stationary targets that does not make them good games
Quoted from screaminr:The first thing I said was it's your opinion fair enough .
It has 39 things you can shoot for , not including pops or slings .
Good luck finding a pin with more to go for .
Quoted from screaminr:The Hobbit has 3 subways with diverterters , a kickback , golum save ball , 31 modes , three mini wizard modes , one wizard mode , a talking dragon , and full video assets of all three movies .
I don't know why you would try to compare that to an EM .
Your initial argument was "It has 39 things you can shoot for" not what there was to shoot for or what the rule set may do for the game
Quoted from PtownPin:Do tell ! love to hear what game u think has better flow!
Quoted from Skyemont:I bet it’s a Stern.
Of corse Stern games have better flow JJP fans have always said Stern games lack toys and upper playfields these are the thing that break up flow. Two or three flippers 6 or 7 lanes few toys = lots of flow
Quoted from Dantesmark:Poll i just put up for owners
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pollis-there-an-issue-with-your-gnr-playfield
Over half the games out there have chipping or polling WTF
Quoted from Extraballz:Where are people like Yelobird saying only 1-2% of games were probably affected. This clear BS needs to stop NOW!
Quoted from Yelobird:Because the Pole is not a Percentage. So 18 people of 200 ish games shipped have an issue. Why do you have to make EVERYthing so personal and filled with conspiracy? I didn't build the games and know as much as you do about Facts which is little to nothing.
The poll has 85 votes with over half with issues https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pollis-there-an-issue-with-your-gnr-playfield
Quoted from PanzerFreak:I know there's a good number of GNR owners with pooling / chipping but over 50% of those "yes" votes in the other thread are probably from Stern Army members.
Even if half of the poll votes are fake you still have a huge issue
Quoted from Yelobird:My WW looked new until about 50 plays then the Playfield started to implode.
Pics or it did not happen LOL
Quoted from romulusx:I think it’s a small issue,don’t you?
I think with as few games as have been shipped the fact there is an issue at all is a big deal
Quoted from PtownPin:Its way more that half....guys like u probably voted that have never owned a JJP game nor have any plans to purchase a NIB GNR
I myself did not vote as for other I can not speak for them. Remember if there are many fake votes for the game has issues than there are going to be many fake votes for all is good
1 week later
Quoted from PanzerFreak:I wouldn't be surprised if the delays and silence is due to JJP trying to resolve playfield issues.
I think the JJP delays are because they have never experienced this level of demand and are trying the best they can to fill their orders
Quoted from Skyemont:Has anyone sold their CE spot yet? I know one went for a charity event.
I think if one sells their CE it is best done privately so that they do not end up on a bloody pod-cast
2 weeks later
Quoted from pingrrrl:Regarding lead time...
I ordered an LE on day two.
Distributor sent me a message on Halloween that I should expect my machine late November/ early December.
November 30 machine shipped
Be glad you made a positive post there are many on hear that would have trashed you just because you are a new member if the post were not positive welcome
1 month later
romulusx and PanzerFreak have been bashing LZ on the Stern LZ hype thread they say it's not a club thread so it's all good. So G&R is a blinged out piece of shit remember folks this is not a club thread so it's all good
Quoted from Yelobird:But why? Don't like Stern or JJP so what. Its a Game not a Gang???
It is not about who I like I like few JJP game because of theme and find them over priced as well as Stern LE game are. My issue is the people who regularly try and build up JJP by bashing Stern. It is a shame CGC and AP do not get it together as they make interesting games
Quoted from mizzou:I had a distributor tell me jjp was going to sell out of the se's soon and not make any more. Anyone else hear about this. Kinda surprised since the game is so popular.
I think it is more a mater of having time to manufacture all SE LE and CE game yes the game is popular that is why JJP needs to make sure they have the time to fill all LE and CE orders before going on to the next game
Quoted from Tranquilize:CE will dip as well. Price is too high to sustain. Won't go down much though. Probably 1k.
Pin companies watched flippers and then raised prices to leave little room for an increase in prices
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