I'm still surprised companies out sourse such an important part of their game and leave their success in the hands of another manufacturer .

Yes and no. Technically most All pinball manufacturers actually do little to No manufacturing. They are assemblers of components for the most part. They may have some basic tooling in house but very little is actually manufactured in house. They are however responsible for the vendors of manufacturing they select sadly.

Maybe it's about time they changed that .

Wouldn't the replacement unpopulated playfield have just as good a chance of having shit clearcoat? Boy, I'd love to go through that swap process just to have the same issue arise.

Exactly! Garbage in garbage out

Most likely people will put washers on posts and not bother replacing PF. Keep it for when the PF is wrecked. We are talking like 0.01% of the PF is chipping and easily covered with a washer.

Unless there is more damage that I’ve not seen. Just around the posts so far?

Yes quite possibly. Most people were putting the soft washers underneath posts as the chipping really doesn't spread. I think I only saw one or two of the affected POTC playfields that were chipping actually spread but that was because people were installing the larger posts to hide the damage. I don't think anyone did a playfield swap. It is more likely insurance when you go to sell your game.

Back in the day Gottleib had their own metal shop and wound their own coils in house. Pretty cool. Today not so practical I believe.

One of my posts under the rose plastic on the upper left is showing some issues. I have not checked under the washers yet.

20201102_105232 (resized).jpg

20201102_105235 (resized).jpg

damn! Even on the SEs too?

Charlie Emery over at Spooky confirmed this in a recent podcast - clearcoats are applied thicker to make the pf more shiny. He also mentioned that he does not think changes to EPA regulations over the years are the cause for all the recent issues. He didn't give a definitive answer on why there are pf issues these days other than to say that there were many factors involved.

Shine isn't due to thickness.. that comes primarily from the gloss of the clear. Thickness gives that 'glass' surface' vs seeing anything transmitting through the thin clear.

Looks like the post with the washer thing behind steel post has something going on too.

Good catch, I believe its the washer for the bottom part of the left orbit. Mine has pooling creeping out as well.

On POTC many of us used a soft neoprene like washer to mitigate this. There were reports of the harder nylon style washers sinking/digging in creating pooling but I’m pretty sure the soft washers that can take some compression didn’t suffer this.

What is surprising here is that it’s happening so soon, POTC started shipping in October and this didn’t really come to a head until March/April so a good 4-6 months.

I just spoke to Michael in sales at JJP. I expressed my concern about the chipping and pooling issues. He assured me that they are aware of it and are working hard with the manufacturer to fix the problem. Since my game probably won't arrive until May (that's his prediction), he implied that the problem would be fixed long before I got my game. It could be a salesman trying to make sure he didn't lose a near $10,000 sale, but I felt better after talking to him and I'm as confident as I can be that my game should have an error free playfield. For others in my boat, who placed an order but are getting nervous about all this talk of playfield problems, I recommend you call JJP directly and do what I did. It will (1) let JJP know they better get on top of and STAY on top of this, and (2) it will hopefully bring you peace of mind over your expensive purchase.

May?? When and what did you order? They must have a Huge backlog.

JJP has not mentioned a time frame for CE to be produced.

I expect mine around that time.

If they are only able to make 50-60 a week, that’s not a very large backlog. 1400-1500 for May. I bet their backlog is larger than that. Probably more than 2000

I ordered a LE last week. It's been seven days and they haven't yet processed my order. Michael said Jen in Sales is processing the orders and mine should be processed soon. I'm not bothered about getting the game in May because it gives me more time to save up for it and it gives them more time to get it right. In the meantime, I have my other games to play.

This is just another blunder...
Did they run out of washers?
Or is this just an oversight, is the standard operational procedure to put washers on the SE slings only? Or the both the LE and SEs all posts? Some posts, no posts? Does it depend what day of the week it is?
Lord all mighty...
Someone please get a grip over there....

I know we will never get a answer but I wonder why they didnt do something about this shit after the POTC debacle?

Because people keep lining up to buy the games regardless of this issue?

What motivation would they have to fix other than pride in shipping a quality product- which they certainly don't seem to care much about. It sure doesn't seem to be affecting their bottom line.

Where are people like Yelobird saying only 1-2% of games were probably affected. This clear BS needs to stop NOW!

It's not like they just became aware of this. They probably said the same thing to people who ordered Wonka.

Because the Pole is not a Percentage. So 18 people of 200 ish games shipped have an issue. Why do you have to make EVERYthing so personal and filled with conspiracy? I didn't build the games and know as much as you do about Facts which is little to nothing.

According to the poll on the other thread it’s over 50% of respondents have pooling or chipping. I just posted on their Facebook page asking about this and the response I got was a link to the support page and that they will be happy to address any issues. No response to give me confidence that problem has been rectified going forward.

The poll shows how many pinsiders are not genuine and not posting the truth. I have only seen genuine photos of issues from 3 machines.

I totally get that, but it does seem like more pics of SE issues are starting to pop up. I would only fully trust pictures from owners, and seems like a few have been starting to see pooling after minimal play. There’s an obvious reason washers are being installed at factory now.

The poll has 85 votes with over half with issues https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pollis-there-an-issue-with-your-gnr-playfield

I know there's a good number of GNR owners with pooling / chipping but over 50% of those "yes" votes in the other thread are probably from Stern Army members.

I would bet Mirco has been working on it. Why wouldn't he? It's bad for his business and terrible for the manufacturers, like JJP, he supplies.

Hopefully, the playfields that are having problems aren't using the same process as the one on the Spectrum playfield, otherwise it's back to the drawing board for Mirco.

Some kinds of problems can't take a lot of trial and error to find a solution, if one can even be found.

JJP can choose to stop production, which may mean going out of business, or working with what they have and deal with the customers who have problems. Long term, they could try to find a different vendor with proven quality.

Customers can choose not to buy until they see definitive proof there is no chance they will get a bad playfield.

I oredered from my distributer pretty much right away and they dont have a timetable. and JJP seems to be very quiet. Zmeny mentioned on podcast today that a small run of LEs may go this month, but if theres 2k orders for those LEs it may be some time. I may just move my deposit over to buy a JP2 or something and then get GnR next year.

And how many are verified owners with pictures of issue or a service ticket from JJP? You honestly don't take these poles as fact do you?

The fact that the poll is anonymous and requires no proof really discredits any results. I hope more people come forward and post their photos if this is widespread. It is the only way to really nail down the actual damage and number of affected playfields.

You’re correct that it can easily be manipulated by stern army, however we also shouldn’t just assume that it is. There is an obvious problem that caused jjp to start putting washers on recent builds. Yes, the poll isn’t 100%, but let’s not be naive and think there isn’t a real problem.

No question. Even if there is only 1 game issue it's Still a problem! There really is no question there is an issue no matter what percentage. This isn't a lottery so nobody should have to hope for a winning no issue game.

I have an SE and started playing last week. Initially no issues out of box. Just inspected today after 200 plays, and 7-8 posts showing initial signs of pooling. Luckily no chipping so will continue to play and monitor. I reached out to my distributor and JJP to see what their recommended solution is....

3BE665C7-5B49-49DE-83C8-672E4B721EE4 (resized).jpeg

42C6CD6C-F403-40F3-BCC7-EAE447EF68A2 (resized).jpeg

7557E3E5-8661-4A36-80DF-826DCEBEAF01 (resized).jpeg

AC276223-ECBF-434C-8C42-19F863A463CB (resized).jpeg

AFFBDCE5-5200-44B1-A82B-636195347909 (resized).jpeg

F3A0B4CD-1AFF-4AEE-89E1-AC3335190DBA (resized).jpeg

F44A1F18-DDFE-4C74-86E5-F7A0D1C4F82D (resized).jpeg

I dunno why everyone makes this into a Stern vs JJP thing... Both companies have their issues. Its not always fanboys of the other companies that say they see issues. Sometimes a fan of JJP can admit they have had issues with a JJP game..... it happens.

I don't think anyone is saying there isn't a real problem, we're just trying to get an idea of the scope.

Since anyone participating in the pole is reading the thread, how difficult is it to post a photo of the problem area on their machine?

That might give a more accurate number of the owners on pinside with issues. Would be interesting to compare the number of people who post photos to the number of positive responses in the pole.

Agreed and more so photos would give new owners or those new to the hobby a visual knowledge of what/where to look to see if they have an issue. Some are less obvious then others.

Sometimes I think the happiest pinball players are the ones who have never visited pinside.

They buy the games they feel like buying, play and enjoy them the way they want to...they don't go looking for issues.

Ignorance is bliss.

Until you go to sell.

Though, I've noticed as my eyesight has gotten worse over the years, I'm much happier with the way my playfields look.

I’ll raise you one, I say BS on the owners claiming to have no issues on any of the posts. I’m not talking day 1 more like after 200 games played.

Pics or they aren’t being honest.

Fact is almost every POTC I’ve come across in the wild had some sort of clear coat issue. Posts, slings, scoop...you name it. Granted most of this was prior to folks hiding stuff with washers etc..They sent out a lot more Pf’s than you think.

There is a GNR SE on location near me and will be checking it out Friday and I’ll get some pics.

I know what you mean. I remember way back when, Stern had an issue with peeling back box stickers. I read about it on pinside and immediately checked my Star Trek only to discover there was minor peeling. I probably would have never noticed except for pinside. And then, all of a sudden, I had something to worry about.

There you go... keep repeating this till it sinks in.

New rule.. every pooling photo needs a post-it with the owners name!!

Come on people.. you can recognize when it's the same photos being posted as posters just repeat others.

Request: do you think we can leave the playfield talk in one of the half dozen threads dealing with playfield issues? I'm getting burned out reading about these issues and want to hear some GNR pinball talk! How about some more game reviews?

owners thread probably better for that kind of talk.