Where is WCBrands to tell you not to worry about it ?

So hear me out..This isn't to suggest a solution but merely something more effective and attractive than a washer. Most of the pooling/chipping I have seen is coming from the inside of the lower sling post which seems to be taking the brunt of the force and compressing the playfield/chipping the clear in that area.

What about a plastic rail guard protector (I install these on all my games) that also doubles as a bridge to isolate and shore up the posts vertical position by sharing the load with the entire guard rail assembly and reducing the compression force of the iinner portion of the sling post?

I've come up with 3 options that could all effectively help...what do you guys think?

I've shaded them to highlight the variances. They could be clear in final design or even incorporate some color.

Again, I know there are other posts that pool and possibly chip, but this is going after the main culprit.

I'm trying to think worse case scenario here if the playfield issue can't be resolved or for those who wanrt some added protection without using washers.

chipguard.jpg

Great idea! Are u making these? If so, add me to the list.

Not making them, just throwing them out there as an idea if others have the means of fabrication.

Mezel Mods ?
ULEK ?

Gotcha. Still a good idea. I’m going to play the hell out of mine and just buy a extra playfield for HEP to clear the right way. It is what it is.

It's possible to buy an extra CE playfield? I'm assuming you have had to purchase the CE? If so, I'll be doing the same!

Not yet but I’m sure it will be hopefully.

You’ll have to prove you own a CE but yes I think so

Clearing over top of a base clear that is soft and not bonded? Not sure that will buy you anything and may make chipping worse. Now if you could buy a playfield before it had any clear on it and get it cleared properly that would be the ticket.

If the problem is the printing below the clear would that even do anything? Are we sure mircos issue is how they apply clear?

That’s great that you’re gonna do that, but if I’m spending $9,500 or 12,500 on a game I don’t think its too much to expect that I should be able to play the hell out of it WITHOUT having to buy another playfield. This frustrates me because I have a GnR LE on order and now I’m worrying that I’ll get a game that has this problem. Is it really too much to ask for them to fix this problem?

Hard not to agree....since JJP/Mirco has had this same problem for years its my guess they have enough data to know approximately what percentage of play fields are bad, and figure its cheaper to throw a few free play fields at people than to really figure out the problem. There is almost ZERO chance that I will ever do a play field swap so having a spare play field just takes up space. Making Play fields in volume with consistent quality just isn't something Mirco is capable of...so if JJP really want to solve this problem they need a new supplier. My guess is JJP knows this and is trying to figure out options.

That TOTALLY sucks. I'm sure JJP will do their best to find a solution soon.

jjp (resized).jpg

I hope they figure out the options before too many more of these games go out. If after spending nearly $10,000 I have this problem I’ll be pissed, and that will turn me from a JJP fan to a JJP hater for sure.

You're up early. Didn't want the extra hour of sleep ?

LTG : )

Thanks for the info

I don’t sleep anymore
Too busy

I’m with you. I have an LE on order too, but keep thinking about holding off. I really wish a jjp statement would come out to give us a vote of confidence that if our game chips they’ll take care of us, but I know they won’t do that. I should be excited to get my game instead of nervous that I’ll get a defective game instead. Takes a lot of the fun out of the purchase.

I hope they have accurate data. If someone is denied a new play field from QC manager does that game still get tallied into the equation? County I live in is urging healthy people to get COVID tested to bring down the percentages so they can get approval to open up. New math...tweak the percentages and hide that there’s a true threat.

So I think it’s bigger than JJP or Mirco realize, or at least it used to, the washer is a step in the right direction as they are at least acknowledging there’s a problem. Now that they’ve acknowledged it, let’s see how long it takes for them to resolve it.

EDIT: that’s why it’s good that threads and forums like ours don’t go away, proof that there’s a problem.

who knows if its really accurate or not, but I am sure they have data on how many play fields they've replaced. Theres no doubt JJP knows Mirco is a big problem, but its probably an even bigger problem to solve as his quality is all over the map, and finding a replacement that can deliver the kind of volume and quality probably isn't out there.

I’m telling you guys the reason for the chipping isn’t the clear, it is the ink itself. I have no idea if it has to do with the fact that the PFs aren’t screen printed anymore or not but you can put whatever kind of protectors you want on them they are still going to chip eventually. Remember the pic of the WOZ that had almost all the ink chipped off around the pops.

I'm not convinced its all to do with pooling either......
My IMDN is pooled like tsunami around the posts but its rock hard.
The ball does not make contact with the pooled area, just the posts..... i've looked carefully and simulated the ball strikes. I have played the hell out of my IMDN.
It has not chipped........ so there's something else going on too.

There is no one els for them to go to.

I totally agree with this. There is something in the ink that is not liking the clear being put over it. Why haven't they gone the route like Stern and do the circle of wood where the post goes with out the art. It seems to have helped them.

That's hilarious and sad at the same time. Seeing those large washers being installed from the factory is JJP admitting there is a playfield defect and that the issue is not resolved. I could understand doing that with Pirates as it was the first time JJP encountered the issue but that was back in late 2018 / early 2019. This issue should be fixed by now!

There's no way in hell I'm dropping $9,500 on an LE right now with JJP shipping at least some GNR's with defective playfields. That's too much of a gamble and I'll instead reevaluate after 6 months.

My Wonka is chipping so here was my solution.

I just play it!!!

GNR LE on order if this one chips? Well?

I'll just play it!!!

However if another awesome JJP pinball machine comes out?

I'll just buy it!!!

They fucking love you.

Did you notify JJP when your Wonka started chipping?

Yes.

They are sending un populated playfield.

Probably not as much as I Love them.

Sending an unpopulated playfield is a slap in the face to receiving a pin with a defective playfield. What a joke. Screw these pin companies. You guys are being taken for a ride.

Short post!!!!

They should send populated PF.

It's a wonder they don't leave blank wood around the posts.
no one would complain if they leave it blank (it's not like someone would only buy a pin if it has art all the way around the posts), now they are putting washers over the art, wouldn't it look better with unpainted wood there?

I’m telling you it has nothing to do with the posts. Posts are just a starting point. Soon the ink will be chipping off around the pops and where the ball makes a divot.

History doesn’t show that. This has been going on for years.

Ummm. Or not.

The play field problems started with DI. Woz had an issue in pops first run, but got fixed eventually after LE run was done. My RR woz and hobbit are perfect after many years and plays. Wonder what happened after hobbit.

My DI is perfect but also a later run

DI had a bit of a brittle issue but no pooling or anything. Pooling started with some POTC.

From what I remember it was the vuks or SIM card area correct?

Sim area has a weird design cutout and cld possibly chip without mylar or cliffys. Other than that di has a great clear coat. My dile with a ton of plays has held up great and hardly has any dimples also. I had a earlier one and played without any protectors for a few hundred plays and it was fine. I went ahead and added mylar and cliffys just for piece of mind.

I wonder what event triggers the playfield clearcoat to fail? In other words, at what point does the playfield show outward signs it is bad? If there was an event identified it could be tested in the lab. So that when Mirco ran a batch of 50 playfields, it would have to pull and test 2 playfields. If either failed, the whole batch of playfields would be scrapped at Mirco’s cost. A motivation to get the process right.

So if there was a way to prevent bad playfields from being installed in a game by sampling / testing batches of playfields, it would be a win. The events themselves do not cause the problem, they only serve as canaries in the coal mine to indicate when not to use a perfectly good looking playfield because it would presumable fail shortly.

Some possible events that may correlate with failed playfield conditions:
A) thirty days after clearcoat is applied and it sits on rack.
B) high humidity for the week of manufacturing.
C) within days of assembly as it sits in the shipping box.
D) within days of opening game and exposing it to fresh air.
E) within playing 25 games.
F) and within days or playing of 250 games.

The clearcoats are way too thick. I‘ll bet if you compare the clearcoat layer thicknesses with the recommendations of the clearcoat manufacturers, this will become apparent. Paint layers which are too thick become unstable, they crack, etc. The clearcoat can pull the color off with it - just depends if the adhesion is better with the clear or the layers below. Automakers check this among other things with the „stone chip“ test. So why thick clearcoats? - because they‘re pretty. They look like glass. Let‘s face it - we pinheads have very high expectations when it comes to our games being pretty - whether it‘s playfields, cabinets, backboxes, etc.

One could apply the clear in multiple layers - maybe even polish/buff in between - but that‘s very expensive.

I hate using the automobile comparison but when paint and clear is applied at the factory it’s done quite differently from say a bodyshop.
They apply using a static electrical charge - very minimal coat of paint and clear
- Better adhesion of paint and clear
- Reduces costs
- Minimum chipping of paint - stone chips etc....

Now most who has had their vehicle in for a respray at a auto bodyshop know this.
When they apply the paint and clear they cannot get the same factory fine application.

The paint and clear is applied much thicker.
It actually looks really good when you get it back.
I know this first hand.
I had a brand new vehicle that had all the panels damaged through hail storm.
Rather than have the vehicle insurance written off....
I had the approved garage, replace the panels with new panels and had them resprayed at the approved bodyshop.
Looked a million dollars when finished in pearlescent white
Deeper, glossier than a factory finish......
But...... when you got a stone ship on the bonnet! Boy did it chip!
That’s the difference, the thicker, deeper the paint and clear, the bigger the chip compared to the thin factory finish.
Any professional body resprayed expert will tell you this is normally the case.
So when buying a used vehicle, big chips on the hood are indicative of a respray.
Small chips = factory finish.

Not sure I agree with the analiogy. I just used a body shop for a Honda pilot and they have rave reviews around our area. They applied what looked to be a perfect match, same paint and clear as factory. It can be done, I paid a little more than I would have at Joe Shmoe down the road.

"We Don't Inspect-em" sounds great !

**He's right - They aren't SPECTRUM lol....

Stages, techniques and the application process is completely different no matter where you go outside the factory.
Robots at factory vs Human at body shop.
They don't strip your vehicle back down to bare ass and put it back on the assembly line and apply voltage, it just doesn't happen.
The techniques are very different, as is the outcome.

Edit: I'm extremely happy with the finish of the car re-spray job they did for my wife's car that got hail damage. Very professional It looks mint, but I know the finish at the front will be more susceptible to chipping for sure. They are working within the confines of the technology available outside of the factory.

Over half the games out there have chipping or polling WTF