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(Topic ID: 278459)

Guns N' Roses...It's here!


By pin2d

58 days ago



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  • 5,245 posts
  • 644 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 days ago by PinFever
  • Topic is favorited by 142 Pinsiders

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There are 5245 posts in this topic. You are on page 94 of 105.
#4651 29 days ago
Quoted from jalpert:

The day before the game went on sale, they posted a pic to twitter with nothing but in box games and someone looking proud. This strongly implies these games were ready to ship.
I was expecting weeks, but if you are going to post crap like bunches of games ready to ship, you better have the majority of the games ready to ship or close.
https://twitter.com/JJPinball/status/1312803772435890176

Nevermind you got educated already!

#4652 29 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

You damn right I do. Those two posts were only the first two posts to experience damage. Since then it's migrated to other posts. Every single post screwed to the field has a pile of clearcoat around it, and artwork is chipping up on several of them. It's devalued my game and it happened after a fucking MONTH. I'm seriously angry. I bought and paid for a new game and I expect a warranty repair to be just that: repaired. Sending me a blank field doesn't cut it. It's not my fault you had clearcoat quality issues. I wanted my game fixed. I tried to return it, no dice. In the end I got an unpopulated field because that's as far as JJP was willing to go. Fuck that noise. I'll never buy a NIB pin again. Ever.
[quoted image]

car comparison coming: thats like blowing a hole in the block on my brand new audi and they send me an engine for me to install. that just horrible. i havent seen ANY post where JJP sent a populated playfield. at least stern sent me a populated playfield for my ghost busters le ghosting issues. thats just really bad customer service. i would never buy another NIB neither!

#4653 29 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I know, right? And many of those ads are 3 weeks old and no sellers.

to be fair, rai is on there as well and he's still deciding if it will be a SE or LE. Inflated would be an understatement.

It's like the guys who put a wanted ad for rick and morty asking for no mark up b/c they'll make it an easy transaction. get the f out of here.

#4654 29 days ago

Is it true playing GNR pinball can lead to excessive drinking and drug use?

13
#4655 29 days ago
Quoted from Pinchild:

Is it true playing GNR pinball can lead to excessive drinking and drug use?

No more than 2020 already does.

#4656 29 days ago
Quoted from jalpert:

It is. And I removed it because I got a couple PMs and I don’t need that shit.
My only point is, we’ve had more than one new pinball company come in, accept large non refundable payments and then screw everyone.
This is essentially a new company, and they require small but non refundable payments.
Crazier things have happened. I don’t think this is that, but this is not how I’d do business. Come out and say why they give us an eta?

Okay I follow you. Though we've got just about 10 years and 6 titles out now, that really isn't a lot when you come to think about it. Certainly not compared to the former big three manufacturers of the past. I do understand and of course I don't own JJP I am just an employee of long standing. Fair enough then.

#4657 29 days ago
Quoted from Pinchild:

Is it true playing GNR pinball can lead to excessive drinking and drug use?

Yes!...and exactly why I went in early!

#4658 29 days ago
Quoted from Pinchild:

Is it true playing GNR pinball can lead to excessive drinking and drug use?

I can verify the drinking part. Nothing like hearing your wife, daughter, and wifes sister drunkenly wailing away to sweet child o mine at the top of their lungs, while blissfully missing every damn shot they try to make.

#4659 29 days ago

I can’t respond to the want ads because they do not include an offer. My time is precious

#4660 29 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

If you think POTC is a stripped game you're just trolling.
And they DID learn. All this is just my own speculation, but from my perspective they learned:
- Never show the game until it is ready to ship. (Would anyone have whined about disc/trunkgate if they'd never seen them?)
- Have games ready to ship when you launch.
- Refundable deposits are harmful and not required if the game is sufficiently exciting.
Imagine a world where POTC orders could not be pulled due to disk/trunkgate. People would have kept their spots, gotten their games, and raved about how great they were. The line would have been able to keep moving.

Like I said, they learned. Except, just build games. Dont rely on other peoples money to make it happen. If you are confident in your product, a non-refundable deposit should not be required. This aint no custom spec'ed car that you want built. Yes, Ferrari demands funds upfront for a custom car, just as Ford etc does. JJP pins are not custom built. Forecast sales, get the parts for those and get moving. If it picks up speed, get more parts. Let me keep my $4!, or a couple of hundred..

#4661 29 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Like I said, they learned. Except, just build games. Dont rely on other peoples money to make it happen. If you are confident in your product, a non-refundable deposit should not be required. This aint no custom spec'ed car that you want built. Yes, Ferrari demands funds upfront for a custom car, just as Ford etc does. JJP pins are not custom built. Forecast sales, get the parts for those and get moving. If it picks up speed, get more parts. Let me keep my $4!, or a couple of hundred..

Refundable deposits crushed POTC. I would argue, they are confident enough in their product to know it will sell with_ nonrefundable deposits.

And by all measures it seems to have done so.

#4662 29 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I hear ya....my guess is its a supply chain issue with Mirco being on the top of the list of issues.

One word....

Forecasting

They keep getting beat up over production because they still haven’t got it right. A steady output matching the market demand. And their inability to manage their runway is playing out in front of customers as they can’t or won’t give etas to the channel.

#4663 29 days ago
Quoted from Pinballomatic:

Fantastic. So with Wonka we had no preorder and a completely different financial structure and people still complain. POTC was 8 months from reveal to start of shipping so this time with GnR we had nice amount built before even revealing the game so that they could ship at launch. And what am I reading over and over? We aren’t shipping them out fast enough. This is Webster’s definition of a no-win situation.

I guess the expectation would be that by now, they can fund their operations. Its definitely no win, when POTC was sold as one thing, and delivered as another. Now you are asking for $1000 to fund operations, if I am reading the other pinsider correctly? Not hard to be somewhat jaded on handing over $1000 bucks for an undefined amount of time. We've seen that scenario play out. JJP should be above that scenario, so why the deposit?

Anyway, I am one to wait until i can order and have it shipped a few days later. So by all means, keep funding folks!

#4664 29 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

One word....
Forecasting
They keep getting beat up over production because they still haven’t got it right. A steady output matching the market demand. And their inability to manage their runway is playing out in front of customers as they can’t or won’t give etas to the channel.

Hard to do when u keep everything a secret...clearly months before launch they could have reached out to their distribution network and got a good indication of demand....one of the key reason why u have one in the first place. That could have helped solve not only the demand question, but CE/LE allotment.

25
#4665 29 days ago

You guys need to give JJP a freakin'break here. They've just moved complete factory to a new state, which means new staff as well, during Corona, and at the same time launched a game that has sold beyond their wildest expectations. Of course there will be delays.

Even with all that, they've delivered games, and are continuing to deliver games as we speak. No doubt they'll be ramping up production, but it's not instant.

Even Stern cant keep up with demand at the moment due to Covid - I read new orders are being promised 1st half of next year from Stern.

#4666 29 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

I guess the expectation would be that by now, they can fund their operations. Its definitely no win, when POTC was sold as one thing, and delivered as another. Now you are asking for $1000 to fund operations, if I am reading the other pinsider correctly? Not hard to be somewhat jaded on handing over $1000 bucks for an undefined amount of time. We've seen that scenario play out. JJP should be above that scenario, so why the deposit?
Anyway, I am one to wait until i can order and have it shipped a few days later. So by all means, keep funding folks!

Thats exactly right! if u don't like deposits just wait until someone has them in stock (if that ever happens)....easy decision for u...

#4667 29 days ago

A firm forecast in this environment?
F28EA086-A819-4EAA-877B-1AC10E2635D4 (resized).jpeg

#4668 29 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

.clearly months before launch they could have reached out to their distribution network and got a good indication of demand....one of the key reason why u have one in the first place. That could have helped solve not only the demand question, but CE/LE allotment.

They did for the CE. ( I don't know on the LE ) They went by distributor previous CE orders, and contacted them how many GNR CE's they'd order. A lot backed off of previous numbers because of the virus and they didn't want 12.5K games sitting in their warehouse.

In spite of the lack luster lead up to launch. JJP still doubled the number of Willy Wonka CE's that were made. ( 250 ) And might still be available at some distributors.

LTG : )

10
#4669 29 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

I guess the expectation would be that by now, they can fund their operations. Its definitely no win, when POTC was sold as one thing, and delivered as another. Now you are asking for $1000 to fund operations, if I am reading the other pinsider correctly? Not hard to be somewhat jaded on handing over $1000 bucks for an undefined amount of time. We've seen that scenario play out. JJP should be above that scenario, so why the deposit?
Anyway, I am one to wait until i can order and have it shipped a few days later. So by all means, keep funding folks!

Now you are asking for $1000 to fund operations - uh, assuming that were true which it is not, why announce something like that? That makes no sense at all.
I'm bowing out of this discussion since once I wrote about the company being fine and committed to this thing long term I got "well why can't you get games out in a timely manner? which is designed I assume to troll me because it's nonsense. Peace. I'll stick to the tech stuff as that is my field.

#4670 29 days ago
Quoted from Pinballomatic:

Now you are asking for $1000 to fund operations - uh, assuming that were true which it is not, why announce something like that? That makes no sense at all.
I'm bowing out of this discussion since once I wrote about the company being fine and committed to this thing long term I got "well why can't you get games out in a timely manner? which is designed I assume to troll me because it's nonsense. Just for fun I took a look - 18 boxed games left the factory today. Subtract 2 that were WW CE and that's 16. That's more than a timely manner. Peace. I'll stick to the tech stuff as that is my field.

Nice....18/day is great ....

#4671 29 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

You guys need to give JJP a freakin'break here. They've just moved complete factory to a new state, which means new staff as well, during Corona, and at the same time launched a game that has sold beyond their wildest expectations. Of course there will be delays.
Even with all that, they've delivered games, and are continuing to deliver games as we speak. No doubt they'll be ramping up production, but it's not instant.
Even Stern cant keep up with demand at the moment due to Covid - I read new orders are being promised 1st half of next year from Stern.

It's what they try and do Cookie!

JJP is setting up the foundation to be successful long term with that new factory and new hires.

Quoted from Pinballomatic:

Now you are asking for $1000 to fund operations - uh, assuming that were true which it is not, why announce something like that? That makes no sense at all.
I'm bowing out of this discussion since once I wrote about the company being fine and committed to this thing long term I got "well why can't you get games out in a timely manner? which is designed I assume to troll me because it's nonsense. Peace. I'll stick to the tech stuff as that is my field.

Don't let em wear you down PB!

#4672 29 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

I guess the expectation would be that by now, they can fund their operations. Its definitely no win, when POTC was sold as one thing, and delivered as another. Now you are asking for $1000 to fund operations, if I am reading the other pinsider correctly? Not hard to be somewhat jaded on handing over $1000 bucks for an undefined amount of time. We've seen that scenario play out. JJP should be above that scenario, so why the deposit?
Anyway, I am one to wait until i can order and have it shipped a few days later. So by all means, keep funding folks!

Ok so we’re done here,right?

#4673 29 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Hard to do when u keep everything a secret...clearly months before launch they could have reached out to their distribution network and got a good indication of demand....one of the key reason why u have one in the first place. That could have helped solve not only the demand question, but CE/LE allotment.

Forecasting isn't just about direct commitments though... some of it really is putting faith in your channel or product. I'm not put off that the company couldn't commit to building 2000 games before they even revealed it... I'm concerned the company can't commit to a schedule for the first 250+ games.

Is it still ramping up labor? Then be conservative and overdeliver...
Not being able to give dates leads to speculation that the problem is the parts runway not being fully primed or sync'ed up.

I'm happy they have initial sales well beyond their expectations. I'm hopeful now that they have stuff to actually build they will get their factory staff ramped up and moving more efficiently. I do still believe they are not executing as they should be though.

I mean... did they really doubt they'd sell the first 500 units?

#4674 29 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I mean... did they really doubt they'd sell the first 500 units?

You mean the CE 500 ?

If so Keith already posted earlier in one of these GNR threads that on the eve of the launch they didn't think they'd sell 50.

If you didn't mean the CE's, then I apologize.

LTG : )

-1
#4675 29 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

You mean the CE 500 ?
If so Keith already posted earlier in one of these GNR threads that on the eve of the launch they didn't think they'd sell 50.
If you didn't mean the CE's, then I apologize.
LTG : )

500 LEs or a mix of a few SEs. CEs I totally get are a wild card... but LEs they should have been able to have more confidence in. And I'm not saying to build 500 at once.. I'm saying to have the parts funnel primed for that kind of build.

#4676 29 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Forecasting isn't just about direct commitments though... some of it really is putting faith in your channel or product. I'm not put off that the company couldn't commit to building 2000 games before they even revealed it... I'm concerned the company can't commit to a schedule for the first 250+ games.
Is it still ramping up labor? Then be conservative and overdeliver...
Not being able to give dates leads to speculation is the problem is the parts runway not being fully primed or sync'ed up.
I'm happy they have initial sales well beyond their expectations. I'm hopeful now that they have stuff to actually build they will get their factory staff ramped up and moving more efficiently. I do tho still believe they are not executing as they should be though.
I mean... did they really doubt they'd sell the first 500 units?

I understand, but with everything going on in the world (Covid) forecasting gets even more challenging. Theres no doubt in my mind JJP is working hard to get their supply chain ramped up. My guess is its one of the major reasons its taken them this long to provide realistic ship dates. The good news is JJP isn't going anywhere so games will show up at some point.

#4677 29 days ago

What am I missing. You always have to wait on a new pin. Why is this any different.

#4678 29 days ago

Am I the only one who basically went online on October 6th, picked a CE and put in in my cart, typed in my CC details and paid in FULL??? Just like I was ordering a DVD off amazon? Because thats precisely what happened. I couldn’t care how long it takes. Waited almost a year for my MBr. seems like it will take less time than that.
when it IS ready, I still need to wait at least 5 weeks before I’ll see it at home in Tel Aviv. So, if you’re only in on a $1k deposit, you’ve got it good in my books. I didn’t even know a deposit was an option, but if I did, maybe I wouldn’t have scored the CE??

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#4679 29 days ago
Quoted from shokel328:

Am I the only one who basically went online on October 6th, picked a CE and put in in my cart, typed in my CC details and paid in FULL??? Just like I was ordering a DVD off amazon? Because thats precisely what happened. I couldn’t care how long it takes. Waited almost a year for my MBr. seems like it will take less time than that.
when it IS ready, I still need to wait at least 5 weeks before I’ll see it at home in Tel Aviv. So, if you’re only in on a $1k deposit, you’ve got it good in my books. I didn’t even know a deposit was an option, but if I did, maybe I wouldn’t have scored the CE??
[quoted image][quoted image]

I hope they make yours first and ship it out

#4680 29 days ago
Quoted from shokel328:

Am I the only one who basically went online on October 6th, picked a CE and put in in my cart, typed in my CC details and paid in FULL??? Just like I was ordering a DVD off amazon? Because thats precisely what happened. I couldn’t care how long it takes. Waited almost a year for my MBr. seems like it will take less time than that.
when it IS ready, I still need to wait at least 5 weeks before I’ll see it at home in Tel Aviv. So, if you’re only in on a $1k deposit, you’ve got it good in my books. I didn’t even know a deposit was an option, but if I did, maybe I wouldn’t have scored the CE??
[quoted image][quoted image]

If you have the means go ahead and do whatever you want but paying in full when you don’t have to is mindless

#4681 29 days ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

If you have the means go ahead and do whatever you want but paying in full when you don’t have to is mindless

He said it wasn't an option to put down a deposit. I can second this as I had a CE in my cart, but didn't pull the trigger

#4682 29 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

He said it wasn't an option to put down a deposit. I can second this as I had a CE in my cart, but didn't pull the trigger

Oh really? Didn’t realize that. Is that a bug or did JJP not take deposits on the CE

#4683 29 days ago

This is what I don't understand, if someone is concerned about playfield quality, time for delivery, non-refundable deposit, gameplay, or any of the many concerns made in this thread, why order a pinball machine when it's first released? There are typically issues to work through on the first games off the line.

It's not like anyone is forcing them to buy now.

#4684 29 days ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

Oh really? Didn’t realize that. Is that a bug or did JJP not take deposits on the CE

No idea, but I can confirm because I had one in my cart, and at least in my case it was for the entire game. At the time I didnt see a deposit option, but maybe I missed it. I ended up going in a different direction

#4685 29 days ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

If you have the means go ahead and do whatever you want but paying in full when you don’t have to is mindless

I called my bank and took a loan the next morning. I realized with the CE I couldn’t have the luxury of time-consuming consideration or procrastination. But I feel I made the right move that day after all so I couldn’t be happier. Since I ALWAYS have to wait for a game I purchased because I always have to ship and import them in, the wait has become an integral part of ownership and collecting - and could even be as exciting as the moment the game does arrive. I enjoy the anticipation and the daily online read as much as I do playing these games once they arrive

#4686 29 days ago
Quoted from shokel328:

I called my bank and took a loan the next morning. I realized with the CE I couldn’t have the luxury of time-consuming consideration or procrastination. But I feel I made the right move that day after all so I couldn’t be happier. Since I ALWAYS have to wait for a game I purchased because I always have to ship and import them in, the wait has become an integral part of ownership and collecting - and could even be as exciting as the moment the game does arrive. I enjoy the anticipation and the daily online read as much as I do playing these games once they arrive

I know you’ll appreciate this shokel. For those that don’t know, this is a common Israeli gesture that means ‘wait’. Seems like a gesture we can all learn.

CDF7F333-764C-44A5-AFC0-C9245F0BA920 (resized).png
#4687 29 days ago
Quoted from Tdavis7965:

I’ve been following this post for a while and finally pulled the trigger on an SE yesterday. Plays incredibly fast! Looks like the black washers are only at the bottom posts, all others look ok without washers and no pooling or chipping. Can take more pics if needed[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I don't know if we have discussed the cabinet art yet. I have only looked at the LE and CE, but the SE looks amazing!! I thought the LE was the best but the SE is awesome!! The artist who did all of the art is amazing!! I like all of the cabinet art on all editions, they are so different.

#4688 29 days ago
Quoted from phoenixpin:

I know you’ll appreciate this shokel. For those that don’t know, this is a common Israeli gesture that means ‘wait’. Seems like a gesture we can all learn. [quoted image]

you got it Phoenix !

#4689 29 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Well u answered your own question....because investors are in the business of making money, and they want that customer commitment ....

Quoted from Mr68:

From a business stand point, I can flip that statement right back at you. Cash infusion right from the get go? That's smart business.

What? None of that explains a non-refundable deposit. wait a minute I don't really care.

Enjoy ur games.

#4690 29 days ago

I cant even deal with this damn thread anymore. Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch.... I'm going to go bury my head in the sand in the owners thread. Peace out

-1
#4691 29 days ago
Quoted from Pinchild:

My Wonka is having issues.
JJP is sending new playfield.
I'll keep it and play it as is then in 10 years do a swap.
Presto new art!

With post like this you should expect less and less new playfields

#4692 29 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Yep. I’m doing the same. Luckily a friend is getting one that he knows he won’t keep so I’ll probably jump on his when he’s ready.

Ummm this friends CE aint leaving my house

we will need to do another wizard mode stream.

#4693 29 days ago
Quoted from JY64:

With post like this you should expect less and less new playfields

Na.
JJP is trustworthy.
They always take care of me and have gone way above and beyond my expectations.

I will continue to give them my business.

#4694 29 days ago
Quoted from bgwilly31:

Ummm this friends CE aint leaving my house
we will need to do another wizard mode stream.

Doubt we get to this one. No way to cheese our way there. Haha.

And I’m talking a SE. no way I ever shell out 12.5k for one game.

#4696 29 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Even Stern cant keep up with demand at the moment due to Covid - I read new orders are being promised 1st half of next year from Stern.

You are right Stern cant keep up and took shit for saying so when Gary said they have 5000 games on order. In the end it comes to do you have to put down $1000 when ordering a Stern game that you will wait months to get

#4697 29 days ago

Has anyone with an LE installed the Bose sound bar yet? Was it just plug in or did you need any special connections/amps?

#4698 29 days ago
Quoted from JY64:

You are right Stern cant keep up and took shit for saying so when Gary said they have 5000 games on order. In the end it comes to do you have to put down $1000 when ordering a Stern game that you will wait months to get

Nope I wouldn’t,but I happily will put down $1000 on JJP GnR!

#4699 28 days ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Ok so we’re done here,right?

Done, with what?

#4700 28 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Done, with what?

Done with the matter of deposits?

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